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Sequels Sony is thinking May 2011 for Spidey 4

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Scatterax, either we are not talking about the same Spiderman series or you are not comprehending the Spiderman series as directed by Sam Raimi. Sam makes it painfully clear that the series “is all about a girl, that girl, Mary Jane Watson”. I cannot stress this enough. Too many of you are watching the series purely for entertainment value, and not for it’s overall content. Reason why, maybe, many of you are so content with Raimi’s rendition of the title character and his supporting cast.

Look, Sam chose two characters as the main characters, everyone else are supporting characters, including yes, Spiderman. Peter and Mary Jane are the main characters; the thesis of the films revolves around Peter and Mary Jane. Spiderman is the consequence why Peter and Mary Jane have a relationship and the reason why they can’t have a normal relationship. Mary Jane is not on equal billing as the villains, Uncle Ben, Harry, Aunt May, or anyone else. She is one of two main characters.

Every decision Peter Parker made, was made to attain MJ. I suggest many of you go back and pay attention to the films this time, if you can sit through them again. I don’t expect Sam to change or even tweak his style of shooting movies or the direction he’s going with these films… regardless whomever is wring the screenplay.
 
This is just one interpretation of Spider-Man. Raimi's vision. I'm sure we'll see another one of what you people address in the next set of films, but even so you still won't be happy. I'm fine with them. I don't believe in a definative interpretation. As long as its done well than I'll accept it. Like Keaton's or Bale Bruce Wayne or Batman. Both are great in their own ways. I know some people will argue that it wasn't done right to begin with but it was fine by me. And at the end of the day, the general audiance doesn't give two sh**s. Sometimes guys, sit back and enjoy them film regardless of the changes, it's one vision just told. It would be ignorant to just have one vision of yours and disregard anything else.
 
Exactly. I can enjoy Burton's Batman just as much as Nolan's Batman, keeping in mind their very different approaches.
 
I don't think Bruce had any more friends, really. I get that homely vibe from him, and considering Rachel seems to spend time at the mansion thanks to her mother, it's natural that they become friends. If Rachel didn't exist, he would probably be with Alfie or his parents. The film never shows us that Bruce's world was bigger than Parents-Rachel-Afred.

Well, that I'm afraid is just pure speculation. Just because we didn't see him with other friends doesn't mean he didn't have any. And I really don't want to break into a debate over something that was never shown or even hinted at.

I maintain what I said, a child playing in his very own garden and falling into that well could have happened in any number of scenarios. Not just with another kid.

Was that established at that point at all? The Harry part?

Yeah, Peter told MJ he intends to move into the city after he graduates. He doesn't mention Harry, but since Harry walks up to him at graduation and tells him everything is all set with the apartment, it's safe to assume they'd been planning it for a long time.

What led him to do all those things was...The Radioactive Spider that gave him his spider powers. MJ didn't wear a spider outfit or whatever to cause him to do that. Why he picked the name should be obvious.

Again, he wouldn't have been there doing it if not for MJ. You keep telling me the reprecussions, but it's not changing the cause, the reason why he was there. The person who he was infatuated with so much that he went there to fight greasy wrestlers in a ludicrous costume in order to win two grand to buy a car to impress her.

Anything that happens after that is just a consequence of him being there in the first place. What drove him to be there and place himself in that situation.

Also, off topic point, but I never liked how revenge on the manager who cheated him was the reason he let the crook run by, instead of his own hubris like in the comics.

Yeah, she was the reason why he was there, but she didn't influence his state of mind in which he became cocky, something that actually lead to his Uncle's murder in a more direct manner.

No, the manager who cheated him out of his money for his car did that. But again, this was all just a dominos effect of something Peter was doing for MJ.

As you said, one thing. Not the main thing. Raimi's obsession with Dunst rears it's ugly head, but it's still not about her.

But that goes back to my point that MJ is involved in practically everything pivotal in Peter's life. MJ should have no part in Harry's hatred of Peter. MJ should not have been the reason why he decided to go to the wrestling arena.

Because Raimi feels the audience cares more about MJ, I'd wager.

Or he's just emphasising his theme of it being all about the girl. You know, like he said the story was about from the get-go.

And MJ is Parker/Spider Man's friend/f*** buddy/girlfriend. Of course she's gonna get targeted. Parker mentions this out loud in SM2. I don't like the rehashing, but that's the reasoning behind it.

But she wasn't his gf. Not until SM-3. And she certainly was not known as Spider-Man's friend. They used lazy writing and had Green Goblin learn that Peter loves MJ, and uses her as a damsel in distress for a third time in the movie. And Doc Ock decides to accost Peter when he's in a public place with *drum roll*......MJ. Why not go to Peter's home? Why didn't he accost him when Peter was with Aunt May?

I'll tell you why, because it had to be MJ. Peter's turmoil just had revolve around her.

But it's still the girl he loves. With his best friend. Surely that would create more conflict for him?

I'm sure he didn't like it, of course. But he never showed any agony or conflict over it. Especially when he saw the relationship was a sham. MJ couldn't even kiss Harry. Peter was getting kisses with MJ in the rain as Spidey. When MJ was telling him it's not working with Harry. When MJ is telling him she's in love with Spider-Man.

Why would that conflict him? He knows she doesn't love Harry. It's not going to last. But she showed affection for John. She had no qualms about kissing him. And she got engaged to him. She showed no signs to Peter that she wasn't serious about her feelings for John.

Sure it was, even though he didn't really want to. But shouldn't that have caused more conflict for him? If MJ is really what powers Parker up.

No, because it was his decision. He chose to do that. He felt it was the right thing to do. He didn't leave MJ in the arms of another man.

But there is no indication that he loses his powers after MJ dumps him.

Why should he totally lose them right after she dumps him? He retained his powers for several days after he learned MJ was seeing John. He only completely lost them when she announced her engagment.

"If you keep something as complicated as love stored up inside, it can make you sick". I don't like repeating myself, but I feel like I'm bashing my head against a brick wall, even when I'm quoting quotes from the movie which tell you in the simplest terms why Peter's powers went screwy.

And I find it hard to believe that Harry called him to meet him at that cafe literally 5 minutes after the fact.

Why? Harry was standing right there watching the whole thing.

In SM2, as you've said, these power slips always happened right after an MJ incident

And I'm right. But we didn't see him suit up as Spidey right after that incident, did we? No, he didn't suit up until that night, after he learned of Harry's betrayl.

And by then, he was consumed with anger and rage, not heartbreak. That's why he went to the symbiote. We see him sitting in his apartment after seeing Harry, and he looks pissed off.

And if the symbiote amplifies his powers, then, it couldn't have possibly amplified something that wasn't there. Parker was fine.

But as mentioned above, it took several days for him totally lose his powers in SM-2. And you're also forgetting that the symbiote made Peter feel good about himself. Why would he lose his powers if he felt good?

It's hard to tell how long he's had these problems, really.

Not really, when his employers and teachers are saying they're getting sick of his lateness, or being late with rent, or steadily slipping grades etc. That indicates it's been going on for quite while.

I sound like I'm repeating myself, but I guess I am. Accumulation of problems, but, I do think Raimi continues to focus on MJ because he believes that's what his teenage audience would be able to relate about the most. But the other stuff is there, present to an annoying degree as well, if I may.

The other stuff is an after thought, and often used in a slapstick manner, like the whole thing with the rent with his landlord. We certainly never see Peter agonising over it.

He is an idiot. And so is she. But if you love someone, and are suddenly feeling great, wouldn't you go after them? (Ignoring the wedding thing :hehe:) It seems natural to me.

It is natural if it's all about the girl. Oh wait....:cwink:

He spent more time getting back on track with his job/career/life than chasing MJ, as far as I recall.

Because the last time he and MJ spoke, she chewed his ass out, and told him he was nothing to her now but an empty seat. He was obviously giving her a cooling off period before he faced her again and trying to convince her that he'd changed.

But Harry doesn't get a look in. Because it's all about the girl.

What? No, they were very present. Annoyingly present, actually. Parker was a hopeless loser. You know what I'm talking about. MJ added to the misery in a big way, though.

How can you compare being late delivering pizzas, or the comedy with the Landlord wanting his rent, to the emotional crap he goes thru with MJ?

Peter hardly bats an eyelid with the other stuff. But he hits rock bottom with the MJ stuff.

I guess I care more about the ramifications rather than the source in this matter.

The cause is just as important as the effect. Why was Peter at the arena in such an outlandish costume trying to win two grand? Why did he tell Uncle Ben he was quitting Spider-Man because he's in love with Mary Jane?

The source is every bit as important as the reprecussions of it.

She's the second main character in the movie. To a certain extent, it makes sense that she has her polished fingernails all over the franchise.

I don't mind MJ being the 2nd main character. I do mind her infiltrating practically every level of the story in some way.

One could argue that Peter at class in MJ free. Peter at The Bugle is MJ free. Peter rescuing the super-chinese girl is MJ free stuff. This are decisions he made, regardless of wheter MJ had something to do with it in a very long effects chain at some point. Parker is a sentient being.

But Peter being at the Bugle, or class etc are hardly monumentally big story elements. Of course he makes simple decisions like that without MJ in mind. LOL! Nobody said otherwise.

We're talking the pivotal elements of the story. The big plot elements of Peter's story.

While I don't need to have MJ in constant distress (SM3 being the main offender of this, where she spent literally the entire movie in distress, in the other ones she could go to her plays withouth getting shot at) I also don't need another scene depicting Aunt May battling Ock or Spider-Flex Aunt May hanging from an angel with her umbrella and not breaking anything.

Who said you'd have to see that? If Aunt May was kidnapped as bait for Spidey, you think they'd have her on the side of a building with her brolly in tow?

Ock only snatched her on the spur of the moment to keep the Cops at bay while he escaped. "Don't follow me".
 
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Scatterax, either we are not talking about the same Spiderman series or you are not comprehending the Spiderman series as directed by Sam Raimi. Sam makes it painfully clear that the series “is all about a girl, that girl, Mary Jane Watson”. I cannot stress this enough. Too many of you are watching the series purely for entertainment value, and not for it’s overall content. Reason why, maybe, many of you are so content with Raimi’s rendition of the title character and his supporting cast.

Look, Sam chose two characters as the main characters, everyone else are supporting characters, including yes, Spiderman. Peter and Mary Jane are the main characters; the thesis of the films revolves around Peter and Mary Jane. Spiderman is the consequence why Peter and Mary Jane have a relationship and the reason why they can’t have a normal relationship. Mary Jane is not on equal billing as the villains, Uncle Ben, Harry, Aunt May, or anyone else. She is one of two main characters.

Every decision Peter Parker made, was made to attain MJ. I suggest many of you go back and pay attention to the films this time, if you can sit through them again. I don’t expect Sam to change or even tweak his style of shooting movies or the direction he’s going with these films… regardless whomever is wring the screenplay.

Agreed!

It doesn't hinder the Spider-Man movies from being very good movies [the first two anyway]. But it does stop them from achieving true greatness, IMO.
 
Well, that I'm afraid is just pure speculation. Just because we didn't see him with other friends doesn't mean he didn't have any. And I really don't want to break into a debate over something that was never shown or even hinted at.

I maintain what I said, a child playing in his very own garden and falling into that well could have happened in any number of scenarios. Not just with another kid.



Yeah, Peter told MJ he intends to move into the city after he graduates. He doesn't mention Harry, but since Harry walks up to him at graduation and tells him everything is all set with the apartment, it's safe to assume they'd been planning it for a long time.



Again, he wouldn't have been there doing it if not for MJ. You keep telling me the reprecussions, but it's not changing the cause, the reason why he was there. The person who he was infatuated with so much that he went there to fight greasy wrestlers in a ludicrous costume in order to win two grand to buy a car to impress her.

Anything that happens after that is just a consequence of him being there in the first place. What drove him to be there and place himself in that situation.

Also, off topic point, but I never liked how revenge on the manager who cheated him was the reason he let the crook run by, instead of his own hubris like in the comics.



No, the manager who cheated him out of his money for his car did that. But again, this was all just a dominos effect of something Peter was doing for MJ.



But that goes back to my point that MJ is involved in practically everything pivotal in Peter's life. MJ should have no part in Harry's hatred of Peter. MJ should not have been the reason why he decided to go to the wrestling arena.



Or he's just emphasising his theme of it being all about the girl. You know, like he said the story was about from the get-go.



But she wasn't his gf. Not until SM-3. And she certainly was not known as Spider-Man's friend. They used lazy writing and had Green Goblin learn that Peter loves MJ, and uses her as a damsel in distress for a third time in the movie. And Doc Ock decides to accost Peter when he's in a public place with *drum roll*......MJ. Why not go to Peter's home? Why didn't he accost him when Peter was with Aunt May?

I'll tell you why, because it had to be MJ. Peter's turmoil just had revolve around her.



I'm sure he didn't like it, of course. But he never showed any agony or conflict over it. Especially when he saw the relationship was a sham. MJ couldn't even kiss Harry. Peter was getting kisses with MJ in the rain as Spidey. When MJ was telling him it's not working with Harry. When MJ is telling him she's in love with Spider-Man.

Why would that conflict him? He knows she doesn't love Harry. It's not going to last. But she showed affection for John. She had no qualms about kissing him. And she got engaged to him. She showed no signs to Peter that she wasn't serious about her feelings for John.



No, because it was his decision. He chose to do that. He felt it was the right thing to do. He didn't leave MJ in the arms of another man.



Why should he totally lose them right after she dumps him? He retained his powers for several days after he learned MJ was seeing John. He only completely lost them when she announced her engagment.

"If you keep something as complicated as love stored up inside, it can make you sick". I don't like repeating myself, but I feel like I'm bashing my head against a brick wall, even when I'm quoting quotes from the movie which tell you in the simplest terms why Peter's powers went screwy.



Why? Harry was standing right there watching the whole thing.



And I'm right. But we didn't see him suit up as Spidey right after that incident, did we? No, he didn't suit up until that night, after he learned of Harry's betrayl.

And by then, he was consumed with anger and rage, not heartbreak. That's why he went to the symbiote. We see him sitting in his apartment after seeing Harry, and he looks pissed off.



But as mentioned above, it took several days for him totally lose his powers in SM-2. And you're also forgetting that the symbiote made Peter feel good about himself. Why would he lose his powers if he felt good?



Not really, when his employers and teachers are saying they're getting sick of his lateness, or being late with rent, or steadily slipping grades etc. That indicates it's been going on for quite while.



The other stuff is an after thought, and often used in a slapstick manner, like the whole thing with the rent with his landlord. We certainly never see Peter agonising over it.



It is natural if it's all about the girl. Oh wait....:cwink:



Because the last time he and MJ spoke, she chewed his ass out, and told him he was nothing to her now but an empty seat. He was obviously giving her a cooling off period before he faced her again and trying to convince her that he'd changed.

But Harry doesn't get a look in. Because it's all about the girl.



How can you compare being late delivering pizzas, or the comedy with the Landlord wanting his rent, to the emotional crap he goes thru with MJ?

Peter hardly bats an eyelid with the other stuff. But he hits rock bottom with the MJ stuff.



The cause is just as important as the effect. Why was Peter at the arena in such an outlandish costume trying to win two grand? Why did he tell Uncle Ben he was quitting Spider-Man because he's in love with Mary Jane?

The source is every bit as important as the reprecussions of it.



I don't mind MJ being the 2nd main character. I do mind her infiltrating practically every level of the story in some way.



But Peter being at the Bugle, or class etc are hardly monumentally big story elements. Of course he makes simple decisions like that without MJ in mind. LOL! Nobody said otherwise.

We're talking the pivotal elements of the story. The big plot elements of Peter's story.



Who said you'd have to see that? If Aunt May was kidnapped as bait for Spidey, you think they'd have her on the side of a building with her brolly in tow?

Ock only snatched her on the spur of the moment to keep the Cops at bay while he escaped. "Don't follow me".

Well, we seem to view things differently I guess. Like you, I don't like repeating myself either, so I won't continue addressing your points (And you make very good ones, I just don't "fully" agree with them) so we'll have to agree to disagree here, my friend.
 
Well, we seem to view things differently I guess. Like you, I don't like repeating myself either, so I won't continue addressing your points (And you make very good ones, I just don't "fully" agree with them) so we'll have to agree to disagree here, my friend.

Fair enough! I was going to say that myself if we went one more round.

But thanks for keeping it civil and friendly. It was a pleasure debating with you, sir :up:
 
Well, they do if the film itself sucks, as SM3 proved.

I think it was all expectation that blew it to hell. They showed too much damn footage, I pretty much knew the whole film going in. But the marketing got people so excited.

The most disapointing film of my life? Yes. A bad film because of my expectations? Of course not.
 
Exactly. I can enjoy Burton's Batman just as much as Nolan's Batman, keeping in mind their very different approaches.

Yup! Which is why Nolanites and Burtonites fighting is comeplete stupidity.
 
While it's not B&R territory, I'd still say SM3 is an outright 'bad' film insofar as apart from the skyscraper set piece and sandman's creation, I still struggle to see anything good in it and see a plethora of failings.

But I am interested in seeing how it affects audience anticipation of number 4. It'll still be big, but each consecutive Spider-man movie has made less and less at the domestic box office, and that's even when number 1 and 2 were considered 'good' films. So one can only wonder how big number 4 will be. I think more than ever in the franchise reviews will count towards how financially successful the film is.
 
I think SM4 will be average... somewhere between part three and parts 1/2... and I only say that because of the law of averages. But if they continue down the direction of SM3... SM5 will be the next B & R no doubt. I am almost certain of that.
 
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I think SM4 will be average... somewhere between part three and parts 1/2... and I only say that because of the law of averages. But if they continue down the direction of SM3... SM5 will be the next B & R no doubt. I am almost certain of that.

but b&r was #4? o well, i guess optimism is still a good thing.:yay:
 
I think SM3 is closer to BF than B&R. Both had tremendous potential but were brought down, in SM3's case at least, with a weird tone inconsistensy, (amongst other things like the script....) Although it was mostly cheesy in nature. It's one of the cheesiest films I have ever seen. As a film, it's much on the awful side...As a movie, it's quite entertaining. Interpret that as you will. I still prefer it to SM1. even though SM1 is the better movie. I can tell you I haven't seen SM1 in ages, but I watched SM3 again a couple of days ago.

Still, it hasn't aged very well. The fight sequences, are the best in the trilogy though, and some of the best in a comic book movie, period. As a movie, it continues to be quite entertaining for me! I'm weird like that.
 
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Agreed!

It doesn't hinder the Spider-Man movies from being very good movies [the first two anyway]. But it does stop them from achieving true greatness, IMO.

Exactly... perfectly said.
 
I think SM3 is closer to BF than B&R. Both had tremendous potential but were brought down, in SM3's case at least, with a weird tone inconsistensy, (amongst other things like the script....) Although it was mostly cheesy in nature. It's one of the cheesiest films I have ever seen. As a film, it's much on the awful side...As a movie, it's quite entertaining. Interpret that as you will. I still prefer it to SM1. even though SM1 is the better movie. I can tell you I haven't seen SM1 in ages, but I watched SM3 again a couple of days ago.

Still, it hasn't aged very well. The fight sequences, are the best in the trilogy though, and some of the best in a comic book movie, period. As a movie, it continues to be quite entertaining for me! I'm weird like that.

i meant that if the 3rd was like bf to you (which i assumed it was) than wouldn't the 4th, and not the fifth be spideys equivilent of b&r?

but on another note. I think sm3 is still pretty entertaining also. and aside from not quite enough venom and some unintentionally silly moments the rst of the movie really isn't as bad as some people say. I can see why it would be a let down to allot of fans, but I still say just because the 3rd isn't as good as the other too doesn't mean the 3rds bad.

idk, it just didn't seem as much like an x3/matrix 3 experience as it did to others I guess. but maybe that's because when i saw it in theaters I came in w/ x3 expectations, so I was able to enjoy it more than if I campared it to, like the 2nd 1 or something.:huh:
 
^I certainly didn't hate it on first viewing. I lowered my expectations considerably after reading the atrocious reviews, which helped me enjoy it more than most people...
 
Slag, Stacy:

Knock it off guys, especially the homophobic remarks. Next time it'll be an infraction.

Next time? I do believe Mr. Stacy was the one who inferred I was gay. I did no such thing to him.
 
Agreed!

It doesn't hinder the Spider-Man movies from being very good movies [the first two anyway]. But it does stop them from achieving true greatness, IMO.

Exactly as I said earlier in the thread. Just I got attacked for it... go figure. :cwink:

And as usual... Well said on all your posts Joker! And Venom's Dad.. great posts too. :up:
 
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