Spectacular Spider-man Vs. Batman TAS

[Spider-Aziz]

TheDanMachine

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

The Spectacular Spider-Man is still my favorite comic book animated series of all time.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

^^It's easily the best Spider-Man series, least faults and corn among them all
I think second best is the MTV show, it's really good, sadly hated

 

[Persian]

^^It's easily the best Spider-Man series, least faults and corn among them all
I think second best is the MTV show, it's really good, sadly hated

but i believe the second-best Spidey animated series is easily the beloved "Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends"

By the way, i am so very sure that in 15 yeras time SSM will be respected and loved as much it is today not because of its breath-taking action scenes or animation style but because it had quality characterizations, well-developed characters and villains, heart-felt moments and stories that for the first time got spider-man and his supporting cast right.

 

[shinlyle]

Well, I finally gave up on waiting for the second season to come out in a nice, compact set, and starting buying the volumes. Well, that, and my daughter, Gwen, saw them at the store and wanted them. So did I. Why fight it?

W-O-W!!

Season 2 beats season 1 into the ground! Granted, I'm only halfway through, but WOW! The Master Planner and Venom arcs were totally incredible. This series went places BTAS didn't dare go. Also, the continuity is FLAWLESS.

Best supporting cast that I've ever seen in an animated series, let alone a comic animated series! Everyone has a perfect little part to play, they didn't take away from anyone. It also makes for a welcome fro anyone in love with the old Lee/Ditko tales. The Master Planner finale was just epic.

Also, the angst is spot-on. Peter and Gwen, Peter and Liz, and, to a lesser extent, Peter and MJ. Just perfect.

I can't wait to watch the last two volumes, but I know it will be bittersweet. Still, my little girl and I will watch them, and love every bit of it!

SSM RULES.

 

[Persian]

W-O-W!!

Season 2 beats season 1 into the ground! Granted, I'm only halfway through, but WOW! The Master Planner and Venom arcs were totally incredible. This series went places BTAS didn't dare go. Also, the continuity is FLAWLESS.

Best supporting cast that I've ever seen in an animated series, let alone a comic animated series! Everyone has a perfect little part to play, they didn't take away from anyone. It also makes for a welcome fro anyone in love with the old Lee/Ditko tales. The Master Planner finale was just epic.

Also, the angst is spot-on. Peter and Gwen, Peter and Liz, and, to a lesser extent, Peter and MJ. Just perfect.

I can't wait to watch the last two volumes, but I know it will be bittersweet. Still, my little girl and I will watch them, and love every bit of it!

SSM RULES.

Happy u loved the second season! But I guess the best is yet to come. As a matter of fact, the last two volumes (esp. the finale) will knock your socks off! ​

 

[shinlyle]

Happy u loved the second season! But I guess the best is yet to come. As a matter of fact, the last two volumes (esp. the finale) will knock your socks off! ​

I cannot wait! Picking them up on Friday, I hope! I love the show, but my daughter's love for the show is contagious! She loves that there is another "Gwen" in the show. (She doesn't yet get that she was partially named after her) She loves Spider-Man, and, even though he scares her, she loves Venom! Of course, her favortie baddies are Green Goblin and Shocker, and I know GG is the final arc, so I'm thrilled about that! Can't wait!!!

 

[The Joker]

This series went places BTAS didn't dare go.

Such as?

 

[shinlyle]

Such as?

Well, it didn't have the personal drama and angst that SSM did. Bruce was Batman almost 24/7, which IS like Batman, but it makes for a slightly (note, I DO LIKE BTAS) less interesting character.

Also, BTAS didn't have nearly as strong a supporting cast as SSM did. It had a good array of Super-baddies and the like, but it didn't have the depth of the SSM cast. Bats had Bullock (who was awesome), Gordon, Babs, Leslie, Alfred, Lucious, and a few others. Those were the ones really fleshed out.

SSM had Harry, Liz, Flash, May, Jonah, Robbie, Betty, Rand, MJ, Gwen, Mark, Curt & Martha Conners, Norman, and many more.

I think the main difference on both series is preference. Most people, if they are Spidey fans, love Spidey more. If someone is a bat-fan, they're going to love Bats more. Personally, I think BTAS had great moments, and it was the best Batman series ever. That being said, SSM had some flawless continuity, and I'm a Spidey fan...so it's the "Spidey 2 vs Dark Knight" argument. The best one is the one you like the best.

 

[The Joker]

Well, it didn't have the personal drama and angst that SSM did.

You mean the teenage drama of dating, and high school crushes, and Peter having money problems and all that jazz? Yeah, why would Batman have that kind of drama? It's not applicable to him. You wouldn't see that in an Iron Man, Superman, or Incredible Hulk cartoon either. It's not applicable to the characters or their lives. Batman's drama was more mature in his partnership problems with the Robins, his connection to Harvey Dent, the drama with Selina Kyle etc.

Bruce was Batman almost 24/7, which IS like Batman

There you go.

Also, BTAS didn't have nearly as strong a supporting cast as SSM did. It had a good array of Super-baddies and the like, but it didn't have the depth of the SSM cast. Bats had Bullock (who was awesome), Gordon, Babs, Leslie, Alfred, Lucious, and a few others. Those were the ones really fleshed out.

SSM had Harry, Liz, Flash, May, Jonah, Robbie, Betty, Rand, MJ, Gwen, Mark, Curt & Martha Conners, Norman, and many more.

You're not describing places you claim BTAS didn't dare to go. You're just stating your own personal preference for the supporting cast.

BTAS had a large supporting cast. As big as Batman has in the comics. It even introduced a new supporting character, Renee Montoya, who was so popular that she was adapted into the comics. BTAS was good for that. They re-invented Mr Freeze which was adapted into the comics. Harley Quinn was adapted into the comics.

SSM never did anything ground breaking like that for Spider-Man. BTAS gave Batman a large supporting cast, so that is not a place it didn't dare to go.

I think the main difference on both series is preference. Most people, if they are Spidey fans, love Spidey more. If someone is a bat-fan, they're going to love Bats more. Personally, I think BTAS had great moments, and it was the best Batman series ever. That being said, SSM had some flawless continuity, and I'm a Spidey fan...so it's the "Spidey 2 vs Dark Knight" argument. The best one is the one you like the best.

I'm a fan of both. My user name was Doc Ock for years before I got bored with it and changed it to Joker.

For it's two seasons SSM did a great job. But it wasn't nearly as ground breaking as Batman the animated series was. That really re-invented the superhero cartoon. It's impact was so great that not only did it have impact on the comic books, but it also got recognized by the emmys (and won, too).

I don't think it's actually fair to compare SSM's two seasons to the several seasons BTAS got, as well as it's spin off movies. BTAS has got more to compare to than SSM.

 

[Persian]

For it's two seasons SSM did a great job. But it wasn't nearly as ground breaking as Batman the animated series was. That really re-invented the superhero cartoon. It's impact was so great that not only did it have impact on the comic books, but it also got recognized by the emmys (and won, too).

I don't think it's actually fair to compare SSM's two seasons to the several seasons BTAS got, as well as it's spin off movies. BTAS has got more to compare to than SSM.

Come on! how many times and for how many years more are u gonna beat us on the head with that “ground-breaking” thing? Don’t u wanna get over it? Just because BTAS was the first really great superhero cartoon doesn’t mean that other shows that followed it aren’t better or as good as it.

i have said it before and i will say again that:
The problem with you and people who seem to be madly in love with BTAS is that you just want us to remember “Heart of Ice”, "Robin's Reckoning", “Almost Got 'Im” etc. But the bitter truth that you have to face is that Batman TAS (which I like tremendously and have a great amount of respect for) had a few stinkers in its first 20 episodes: The Underdwellers, The Forgotten, Prophecy of Doom and, to some extent, The Cat and the Claw: Part I& II. and let's not forget that apart from a handful of absolutely great episodes (Over the Edge, Legends of the Dark Knight, Mad Love), seasons I & II of the New Batman Adventures (1997-1999) were mediocre at best.
But Spectacular Spider-man didn't have a bad episode; heck, it didn't even have an average episode! and I am pretty sure if SSM had continued it would have given us even better episodes than it did in its first 2 seasons!

And let’s just be honest with ourselves and accept that Peter Parker/Spider-man is just a more relatable and interesting character than (boring-as-hell) Bruce Wayne (but cooler than sex) Batman! Come on the guy is all about vengeance and putting fear into the hearts of criminals. His non-existent social life sucks and he is just sitting in his cave frowning all the time. Don’t you thinks that such a character can be cool for a while but gets dull too fast? (actually I have the same problem with the Punisher, and Wolverine)

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

The Spectacular Spider-Man could have been groundbreaking in some way, but it wasn't.

B:TAS had more episodes in it's first season than the Spider-Man show had in it's entire run, so of course there would be the occasional stinker. It's asking too much to expect 109 episodes of a show to all be good.

 

[The Joker]

Come on! how many times and for how many years more are u gonna beat us on the head with that “ground-breaking” thing?

Never, since it's the truth. Name me one other superhero cartoon series that was as well received and as critically acclaimed as BTAS.

Don’t u wanna get over it?

There's nothing to get over.

Just because BTAS was the first really great superhero cartoon doesn’t mean that other shows that followed it aren’t better or as good as it.

In this case it does as far as groundbreaking goes.

The problem with you and people who seem to be madly in love with BTAS is that you just want us to remember “Heart of Ice”, "Robin's Reckoning", “Almost Got 'Im” etc. But the bitter truth that you have to face is that Batman TAS (which I like tremendously and have a great amount of respect for) had a few stinkers in its first 20 episodes: The Underdwellers, The Forgotten, Prophecy of Doom and, to some extent, The Cat and the Claw: Part I& II. and let's not forget that apart from a handful of absolutely great episodes (Over the Edge, Legends of the Dark Knight, Mad Love), seasons I & II of the New Batman Adventures (1997-1999) were mediocre at best.

That's your personal opinion. Your definition of mediocrity or "stinkers" is entirely subjective. Personally I think episodes like The Cat and the Claw, the Forgotten, and The Underdwellers were fantastic.

But Spectacular Spider-man didn't have a bad episode heck, it didn't even have an average episode!

That again is entirely subjective, not a fact. There was several episodes I didn't care for. But not one of those episodes won the show any kind of awards. BTAS scooped two Emmys.

and I am pretty sure if SSM had continued it would have given us even better episodes than it did in its first 2 seasons!

You can't be sure of anything. The SSM cartoon only lasted two seasons and spawned a paltry 26 episodes before it got canned, which is less than half of what BTAS produced. I wonder how many episodes of it would have been bad if it managed to last as long as BTAS did.

But it's a rhetorical question because we'll never know. They pulled the plug on it. The die is cast. You can only compare what it managed to do while it existed. The quality of BTAS far outweighs what SSM ever produced, but that's because BTAS has so much more episodes in it's corner. It's one of the reasons why this comparison is flawed.

And let’s just be honest with ourselves and accept that Peter Parker/Spider-man is just a more relatable and interesting character than (boring-as-hell) Bruce Wayne (but cooler than sex) Batman! Come on the guy is all about vengeance and putting fear into the hearts of criminals. His non-existent social life sucks and he is just sitting in his cave frowning all the time. Don’t you thinks that such a character can be cool for a while but gets dull too fast? (actually I have the same problem with the Punisher, and Wolverine)

Persian, you really need to get over your delusional belief that your personal preferences are a fact. That's what you need to be honest about and accept.

I find a man driven by a childhood trauma, and fears and inner demons, a brooding, grim, dark man who is almost as dark as the villains he fights more interesting than a motor mouth teenage nerd who has spider powers. And that's coming from a fan who loves Spidey.

Finding a character to be relatable doesn't equate to him being more interesting. In fact I find that to be the opposite most of the time. It's the kinds of characters who I am nothing like, who are different, who present other qualities I haven't got more fascinating to watch because I'm getting an insight into something entirely different to what I'm used to.

That to me makes for more interesting viewing.

The Spectacular Spider-Man could have been groundbreaking in some way, but it wasn't.

B:TAS had more episodes in it's first season than the Spider-Man show had in it's entire run, so of course there would be the occasional stinker. It's asking too much to expect 109 episodes of a show to all be good.

Exactly

 

[Persian]

Dear Joker,
I was wondering why u think everything I say is subjective but what u say is nothing but "fact"?!

The "fact" is that there are now so many people like me who don’t think like u do and that is the "fact" u can't ignore or change.
​

​

​

 

[Persian]

so of course there would be the occasional stinker. It's asking too much to expect 109 episodes of a show to all be good.

So at least u admit there were some occasional stinkers in the BTAS. That's a start! ​

Actually I am surprised you high and mighty BTAS fans even bother to visit these forums and take time to reply to our posts! Wow! I am deeply honored!​

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

The "fact" is that there are now so many people like me who don’t think like u do and that is the "fact" u can't ignore or change​

Yeah, power to the people, comrade.

 

[The Joker]

Dear Joker,
I was wondering why u think everything I say is subjective but what u say is nothing but "fact"?!

The "fact" is that there are now so many people like me who don’t think like u do and that is the "fact" u can't ignore or change.
​

​

​

Dear Persian,

The only thing I have claimed as fact is the awards and critical acclaim BTAS received that SSM and other superhero cartoons have not. That's why they're not ground breaking like BTAS. They didn't even get any spin off movies based on the show.

You have no proof to back up your supposed "fact" that there are many more people who think like you do. That again is just your subjective opinion. Something you cannot ignore.

But if you really want to push this are you game for going to the Misc TV series forum and making a poll to see which series gets more votes?

 

[Persian]

Dear Joker,
Well the "fact" that this thread is still going on after SSM was unceremoniously canceled or the "fact" that a similar and successful thread was started by me at toonzone forums proves that there are many who don’t agree with you.​

I also believe that being the first truly watchable superhero show to many fans and critics (although I personally believe that the first really great superhero animation was the Max Fleischer Superman shorts) has its disadvantages too. many people get so excited they give it awards and shower it with acclaim because it is the first and there is no other cartoon to compare it too. But in retrospect and after other great shows follow, they realize that the show might not have been all that great and that there are now other shows around that have learned their lesson and tried not to repeat the mistakes of BTAS!​

I have said it before and I say it again that I have a lot of love and respect for BTAS but it is high time you realized that it is no longer the yardstick of superhero genre. ​

 

[Doomed_hero]

I love both shows but its Batman by far. The animation was great and the voice acting was better then any has ever been in a comic book cartoon. Plus there was great animation as well. I sometimes wish it could have been darker(like Arkham Asylam the game showed us what the writers would do if it could have been) But still to me its the best TV adaptation of all time.

 

[The Joker]

Well the "fact" that this thread is still going on after SSM was unceremoniously canceled or the "fact" that a similar and successful thread was started by me at toonzone forums proves that there are many who don’t agree with you.

Two things:

1. This thread died after a mere 5 pages back in 2009, and over half of the posts are between you arguing with other people. It's only reached a sixth page because Spider-Aziz decided to bump it after a 2 year hiatus.

2. Your Toon Zone thread also was made back in '09 and has died in '09, too. Btw I notice your user name was banned on there. What happened, did you get carried away trying to defend SSM from the BTAS fans?

I also believe that being the first truly watchable superhero show to many fans and critics (although I personally believe that the first really great superhero animation was the Max Fleischer Superman shorts) has its disadvantages too. many people get so excited they give it awards and shower it with acclaim because it is the first and there is no other cartoon to compare it too. But in retrospect and after other great shows follow, they realize that the show might not have been all that great and that there are now other shows around that have learned their lesson and tried not to repeat the mistakes of BTAS!

That is all baseless speculation on your part. I'm sure it makes it easier for you to fool yourself into believing all the awards and acclaim BTAS got was done through rose colored glasses.

Conversely I could just as easily say SSM was so popular with the Spidey fans simply because it's the first half way decent Spider-Man cartoon we've had in over 15 years.

I have said it before and I say it again that I have a lot of love and respect for BTAS but it is high time you realized that it is no longer the yardstick of superhero genre.

I cannot realize something that is totally untrue and I do not believe. Every single time a new superhero cartoon emerges, it is always compared to BTAS. Always. It is the landmark cartoon by which all comic book cartoons are measured against.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Re-posting my thoughts from the other thread here:

I'm actually going to remove my Nostalgia Goggles and my blinding bias and say that The Spectacular Spider-Man is the better show. Why?

Due to some meddling with a former editor, B:TAS was stuck with some truly bad episodes that were meant to pander to the younger viewers. For every "Two-Face" or "Heart of Ice", there was "I've Got Batman in my Basement" or "Cat Scratch Fever". Characterization was also inconsistent. Characters with impressive first showings like Two-Face and Clayface were reduced to common crooks with gimmicks over time, and Killer Croc kept being flip-flopped between being a cunning adversary and an idiot. And while the designs were stylized to allow better animation, it still came up looking sloppy in some episodes.

Contrast that with SSM, which had more consistent quality in episodes, better characterization and development for both major and minor characters, and though having even more simplified designs, had smooth animation all the way through.

And the whole quantity=quality argument that some of you are having is completely unfair. It's not SSM's fault that it got screwed over by company politics. Warner Brothers is just far more competent and faithful to its properties and employees, and allowed B:TAS to flourish and develop. If B:TAS was shortened by 26 episodes, would you guys still consider it the superior show?

It sounds like I hate B:TAS. I do not. It was, and still is, a critical part of my childhood, and it is a show that played a major role in revamping the animation industry in the 90's. But the show itself, as influential as it is, is far from perfect, and it has several flaws that would not allow it to last today's standards. SSM is just the strongest show to me.

 

[Fudgie]

It's not even a contest. BTAS is miles better. Superior animation, voice acting, writing, music....the lot. SSM is not even in the same league. The characters look like Fisher Price toys in SSM.

 

[Webhead2006]

Really got to get off the animation style deal. It was picked that way for cheaper production costs and more fluid animation.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

The characters look like Fisher Price toys in SSM.

And all of Timm's women look the same but with different haircuts and his men are molded after robots. And it matters why?

 

[The Joker]

And all of Timm's women look the same but with different haircuts

Book an appointment with your optician post haste:

Even comparing two long haired brunettes:

Different faces.

and his men are molded after robots. And it matters why?

Ok, you're just making up stuff now. If these look like robots then I'm Mother Theresa

And it matters why?

Because BTAS characters look like people while SSM's look like toys.