Spectacular Spider-man Vs. Batman TAS

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Timm's style is simplistic, not robotic or identical.

 

[©KAW]

Simplistic better fits Spectacular's style.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Book an appointment with your optician post haste:

I wasn't specifically referring to the art style used in B:TAS. I was referring to the art style afterwards, from S:TAS to JLU, which is the more well-known and associated with him.

So, no need for the snark and insults.

Simplistic better fits Spectacular's style.

So was Timm's. And yet both shows produced smooth, fluid animation, perfect for superhero action shows.

I don't understand all the hostility I'm receiving. I never insulted the style, just that it's just as simplified and stylized as SSM. I was just calling out the hypocritical complaint that SSM's designs are bad because they don't look human, yet the similarly-inhuman style that Timm used in his later shows gets a free pass.

Yes, I think Timm's men look square and robotic and women were mostly similar, with no elaborate detail, and Galloway's people have no pupils and big eyes, again with no elaborate detail. But they both bring unique looks that are fitting for their respective shows and allow for easier animation overall.

 

[The Joker]

I wasn't specifically referring to the art style used in B:TAS. I was referring to the art style afterwards, from S:TAS to JLU, which is the more well-known and associated with him.

Ok, well you should have specified that since this thread is about BTAS.

So, no need for the snark and insults.

Sorry, it wasn't meant to come across that way. Apologies.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Re-posting my thoughts from the other thread here:

The thing about models with different haircuts for females could be said about SSM as well
Only time Croc was depicted stupid was when Batman playing as him

MEEEE
:stare:
I threw a rock at him
:Everyone on the table stares back at him:
It was a big rock

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Ok, well you should have specified that since this thread is about BTAS.

Yeah, I could see how confusion could have come.

Sorry, it wasn't meant to come across that way. Apologies.

I wasn't too reasonable either, so I apologize as well.

The thing about models with different haircuts for females could be said about SSM as well

True, but again, both styles get the job done.

Only time Croc was depicted stupid was when Batman playing as him

He was portrayed as stupid in "Trials" as well. Not that the "hit him with a rock" gag didn't amuse me.

 

[shinlyle]

Well, I for one, still love them both. However, as I've said before, I find SSM a little better.

As for the length of the shows, BTAS had the advantage of coming out 20 years ago. That was a time when they still showed cartoons on network television in the afternoons. There was an entire 2 hour block or programming for animation every afternoon on FOX! It was the best!

Now, there is too much competition from cable networks with a barrage of different shows. Cartoons now premiere on Cartoon Network and Disney in primetime and on Saturday mornings. It's a difficult market for any new show. Also, network television programming in the afternoons is utter horse-poop. Judge shows and talk shows...and entertainment news shows. Ugh.

As for the animation, thou shalt not blaspheme Bruce Timm!! I prefer SSM, but Bruce Timm=AWESOME!! Come on!!!

 

[Spiderine]

At least Batman had a longer run unlike SSM. SSM got a measely 26 episodes to judge.

 

[Spiderine]

edit

 

[Webhead2006]

well its hard to compare the two shows on episodes. Tv today is alot different then tv 10-15-20yrs ago.

 

[©KAW]

It's not hard for me to judge between the two, Batman series kept getting better and better. And after the second season of Spectacular I wanted its plug pulled, and someone answered my call.

SSM got a measely 26 episodes to judge.

13 episodes too many.

 

[Persian]

Dear Joker,
As far as I remember the thread at toonzone was shut down because the debates over there got so heated! And about the thread here and considering the fact that last SSM episode was aired on March 18, 2009 (in the UK), do u really expect too many people to frequent the spectacular spider-man sub-forum and leave comments in it?!​

U can call whatever I say "baseless speculation" and I don’t care because that is just your personal opinion (which is not even backed by any argument that is remotely convincing) and nothing you say will change my mind or the mind of many others who think like I do. ​

Moreover, u may say weird things like "(BTAS) is the landmark cartoon by which all comic book cartoons are measured against" but i know that when you go to bed at night and start thinking straight u know in your heart that there are people like me who think BTAS is the "most overrated series of all time". I am sure u do!​

By the way do care to enlighten by telling us about any half way decent Batman cartoon we've had in about 15 years?!​

 

[The Joker]

Dear Persian,

I bet the debates over there did get heated because of the the absurdity in comparing a landmark show like BTAS to SSM, which only lasted a mere two seasons. It's a ridiculous comparison. This forum has had traffic ever since the show's cancellation because of the new Spidey cartoon coming up. It's just that nobody bothered with this thread until someone decided to revive it.

It is not my opinion that what you said is baseless speculation because it is due to the simple fact that you have not offered an iota of proof to back up what you said beyond what you personally want to believe. So without any proof to back up your theory, it is just that, a theory, i.e. baseless speculation.

I know you're getting desperate now since you're resorting to petty crap about what I think when I go to bed at night. Is that the best you can do? Btw I took the liberty of making that thread I suggested to you after you kicked off the other day: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=353903&page=2 I'm sure you won't be surprised by the poll results thus far (not to mention the plethora of responses from people saying it's not even a contest as BTAS is obviously better).

How many half way decent Spider-Man cartoons have we had in the last 15 years? That's why Spidey fans are leg humping SSM. It's like a breath of fresh air after some really bad Spidey cartoons. But since you asked about Batman cartoons in the last 15 years; The Batman cartoon, that recent one where Bruce Wayne looks like Jackie Chan, that lasted three seasons longer than SSM

 

[Spider-Aziz]

It's not hard for me to judge between the two, Batman series kept getting better and better. And after the second season of Spectacular I wanted its plug pulled, and someone answered my call.

13 episodes too many.

I prefer Batman:TAS, but it seems to keep running on great quality, nothing improving, some episodes are superior to others

SSM season 1 is amazing, season 2 has a better grasp of things, plot growing amazingly, story progressing better, characters progress, every episode has something to make one look forward to the next with more eager, I found it to be better each passing episode

I don't see your complaint

 

[Spiderine]

It's not hard for me to judge between the two, Batman series kept getting better and better. And after the second season of Spectacular I wanted its plug pulled, and someone answered my call.

13 episodes too many.

I won't debate which is better because I like both shows. But what specifically did you hate about the second season may I ask?

 

[kedrell]

TSSM took a little bit for me to get into it but after a while I was hooked. It gets my vote. Batman TAS may have been an important and well made series but for me it was just utterly boring. I liked Timm's Superman series much better and I'd rate that above TSSM.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

It's not hard for me to judge between the two, Batman series kept getting better and better. And after the second season of Spectacular I wanted its plug pulled, and someone answered my call.

13 episodes too many.

Yeah, I'm also wondering what was so bad about the second season. If anything, it kept my attention more.

 

[shinlyle]

Judging from his postings, he just hates the series and shows up here to make that known...repeatedly. There seems to be no explanation required on his part. Oh well.

kedrell- I enjoyed the Superman series as well. I remember that being the only interpretation of Superman that I'd enjoyed in ANY medium since Superman 2. The Apokolips sory....awesome-ness.

 

[Persian]

Dear Joker,
i am done arguing with u. have fun with your ignorance

 

[Persian]

Dear Joker,
Thanks for the thread. the fact that u felt compelled to do so is proof enough that BTAS fans are beginning to feel endangered and that U no longer feel safe to claim BTAS is the greatest superhero cartoon ever!

The Batman cartoon, that recent one where Bruce Wayne looks like Jackie Chan, that lasted three seasons longer than SSM

sadly this proves that I all my debates with you were pointless! Do u really think that the number of episodes makes one show superior to another one?! U sure put quantity over quality.
U know nothing about what makes a show great. I am sorry for myself cause all this time I just wasted my time arguing with u.

 

[animoured]

I say TSSM, and it's not just because I'm biased towards Spider-Man.
To explain, I've copied this post I made on TV.com in response to an argument that BTAS is more mature, emotional, and dramatic.

Mature: Yeah, Batman is, because, well, it's Batman. However, one thing which I greatly respect about TSSM is how (as Weisman) it "works in different circles". Children will enjoy it for its excitement and humor. Older audiences will love it for its character development and intensive plots. Furthermore, there are some tidbits which are targeted for a specific without diminishing the other's experience - best example being Black Cat's innuendo.
Emotional: I'd say they're about the same, actually. The level of emotion, usually, is directly related to how well-developed and relatable the characters appear, so I'm gonna argue on that note since it's easier to understand. BTAS has a lot of characters following this criteria - Mr. Freeze, Mad Hatter, Batman himself, etc. - and a bunch who don't - Clock King, Penguin, Croc, etc. - and a lot in-between - Catwoman, Harley, Bullock, etc. Mainly, BTAS' most emotional characters are based in tragedy and how it transformed them. TSSM, on the other hand, also has a lot of emotional characters - Spider-Man, Liz, Gwen, etc. - and a bunch who don't - Sally, Shocker, Betty, etc. - and a lot in-between - JJJ, Flash, Vulture, etc. However, though it does have it's share of tragedy with guys like Molten Man and Electro, TSSM focuses a lot more of its emotion on issues that people typically face in life, like balancing school with work with friends, and having money troubles, trying to get a girl, etc. So yeah, it's different types of emotion, but the two are definitely at around the same level.
Dramatic: Again, like with the emotional, drama isn't always tragedy. The end of Natural Selection, for example, wasn't tragic - it was uplifting, even - but it was still definitely dramatic. I'd say they're at the same pace here as well (considering that dramatic is almost the same thing as emotional

).
Plus, TSSM does have several things over BTAS!
Continuity: They're two very different shows. BTAS goes with an episode-by-episode format, however TSSM develops over time. It's a lot of preference, but I prefer the continuity because it allows you to watch characters like Electro and Liz evolve over time, so that we can see long-term reactions and effects. With BTAS, there were several cases, like with Mad Hatter and Two-Face (he never really returned until Second Chance as far as I'm concerned), where great development was lost due to this lack of continuity. Sometimes, it even contradicted itself - Joker has now lead two past lives, one as a gangster (Mask of the Phantasm), and one as a comedian (his final episode - I forget the name). TSSM, on the other hand, is usually quite consistent with its characters.
Relatability: Face it - you don't really know what if feels to run around at night wearing a cape and cowl and fighting criminals. TSSM incorporates Peter Parker leading a regular life alongside his Spider-Man one, and thus retrieves a far greater level of relatability. They're two completely different heroes - opposites, in fact - Bruce Wayne has truly become Batman, while Spider-Man still maintains his Peter Parker persona as the dominant one.
Humor: It's not that big a deal, but it's still true.
Action: Again, it means barely anything, but TSSM has had way better fight scenes than BTAS.
Animation: Okay, this really means next to nothing, but I still definitely prefer TSSM's great, fluid animation to BTAS' still great, but not as great animation.
Don't get me wrong - I love BTAS a lot and it's probably my second-favorite show now, but TSSM has a lot over it, and that's not just the bias talking.

Seriously though, here's my official (objective) stance on this debate:
It all comes down to preference.
Both shows are at the same level as writing. Remember, writing is extremely subjective, and the only way to truly judge it is by well the show or movie or book or whatever accomplishes it's goal. You can't favor one format over another writing-wise because the first rule of writing is that there are no rules! As someone previously mentioned, Spider-Man just works better as a continuous series, and Batman may work better as an episodic one.
In the end, here's what it comes down to:
BTAS has a dark tone, tragedy, and an episodic format.
TSSM has a light tone, relatablity, and a continuous format.
Take your pick.
Personally, I prefer relatability and a continuous format (though I have no preference over dark/light tones), so I'm going for TSSM.
That's all there is to it.

 

[The Joker]

Dear Joker,
i am done arguing with u.

And yet....

Thanks for the thread. the fact that u felt compelled to do so is proof enough that BTAS fans are beginning to feel endangered and that U no longer feel safe to claim BTAS is the greatest superhero cartoon ever!

On the contrary, I wanted to put to bed your ignorant baseless claim I knew not to be true. You were touting it as a fact, like all these other baseless opinions you've been trying to spew as a fact.

If I felt insecure by your claim, then I wouldn't have made the thread at all for fear you may have been right, which I suspect is the reason you never took up this suggestion in the first place. But there was no doubt in my mind that you were wrong. The poll results of the thread proved what I already knew. That's the difference between you and me. When I state something as a fact I can back up what I say.

sadly this proves that I all my debates with you were pointless!

You should have realized that from post #1 when you were trying to use strawman arguments to make your points.

Do u really think that the number of episodes makes one show superior to another one?! U sure put quantity over quality. U know nothing about what makes a show great.

And where pray tell did I say I place quantity over quality? I simply pointed out the fact that a sub par Batman series lasted longer than SSM since you were the one who started asking about other Batman cartoons in the first place.

I am sorry for myself cause all this time I just wasted my time arguing with u.

I'm sorry for you, too, but for entirely different reasons

You took offense to my posts from the get-go. You even went so far as to make it personal by injecting childish tripe about what I think in bed at night. You've been running on empty in this discussion from the get-go. If you're going to engage in such a debate in the future, be more mature like posters such as shinlyle and Gamerslyratchet, and more importantly don't state anything as a fact if you haven't got the goods to back it up, because your claims are very easy to prove or dis-prove.

 

[Persian]

I say TSSM, and it's not just because I'm biased towards Spider-Man.
To explain, I've copied this post I made on TV.com in response to an argument that BTAS is more mature, emotional, and dramatic.

Mature: Yeah, Batman is, because, well, it's Batman. However, one thing which I greatly respect about TSSM is how (as Weisman) it "works in different circles". Children will enjoy it for its excitement and humor. Older audiences will love it for its character development and intensive plots. Furthermore, there are some tidbits which are targeted for a specific without diminishing the other's experience - best example being Black Cat's innuendo.
Emotional: I'd say they're about the same, actually. The level of emotion, usually, is directly related to how well-developed and relatable the characters appear, so I'm gonna argue on that note since it's easier to understand. BTAS has a lot of characters following this criteria - Mr. Freeze, Mad Hatter, Batman himself, etc. - and a bunch who don't - Clock King, Penguin, Croc, etc. - and a lot in-between - Catwoman, Harley, Bullock, etc. Mainly, BTAS' most emotional characters are based in tragedy and how it transformed them. TSSM, on the other hand, also has a lot of emotional characters - Spider-Man, Liz, Gwen, etc. - and a bunch who don't - Sally, Shocker, Betty, etc. - and a lot in-between - JJJ, Flash, Vulture, etc. However, though it does have it's share of tragedy with guys like Molten Man and Electro, TSSM focuses a lot more of its emotion on issues that people typically face in life, like balancing school with work with friends, and having money troubles, trying to get a girl, etc. So yeah, it's different types of emotion, but the two are definitely at around the same level.
Dramatic: Again, like with the emotional, drama isn't always tragedy. The end of Natural Selection, for example, wasn't tragic - it was uplifting, even - but it was still definitely dramatic. I'd say they're at the same pace here as well (considering that dramatic is almost the same thing as emotional

).
Plus, TSSM does have several things over BTAS!
Continuity: They're two very different shows. BTAS goes with an episode-by-episode format, however TSSM develops over time. It's a lot of preference, but I prefer the continuity because it allows you to watch characters like Electro and Liz evolve over time, so that we can see long-term reactions and effects. With BTAS, there were several cases, like with Mad Hatter and Two-Face (he never really returned until Second Chance as far as I'm concerned), where great development was lost due to this lack of continuity. Sometimes, it even contradicted itself - Joker has now lead two past lives, one as a gangster (Mask of the Phantasm), and one as a comedian (his final episode - I forget the name). TSSM, on the other hand, is usually quite consistent with its characters.
Relatability: Face it - you don't really know what if feels to run around at night wearing a cape and cowl and fighting criminals. TSSM incorporates Peter Parker leading a regular life alongside his Spider-Man one, and thus retrieves a far greater level of relatability. They're two completely different heroes - opposites, in fact - Bruce Wayne has truly become Batman, while Spider-Man still maintains his Peter Parker persona as the dominant one.
Humor: It's not that big a deal, but it's still true.
Action: Again, it means barely anything, but TSSM has had way better fight scenes than BTAS.
Animation: Okay, this really means next to nothing, but I still definitely prefer TSSM's great, fluid animation to BTAS' still great, but not as great animation.
Don't get me wrong - I love BTAS a lot and it's probably my second-favorite show now, but TSSM has a lot over it, and that's not just the bias talking.

Seriously though, here's my official (objective) stance on this debate:
It all comes down to preference.
Both shows are at the same level as writing. Remember, writing is extremely subjective, and the only way to truly judge it is by well the show or movie or book or whatever accomplishes it's goal. You can't favor one format over another writing-wise because the first rule of writing is that there are no rules! As someone previously mentioned, Spider-Man just works better as a continuous series, and Batman may work better as an episodic one.
In the end, here's what it comes down to:
BTAS has a dark tone, tragedy, and an episodic format.
TSSM has a light tone, relatablity, and a continuous format.
Take your pick.
Personally, I prefer relatability and a continuous format (though I have no preference over dark/light tones), so I'm going for TSSM.
That's all there is to it.

Excellent excellent analysis! All you say makes sense! I wish these BTAS fanatics could give us a similar analysis in defense of their beloved show!
THE TRUTH IS SPREADING!

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Excellent excellent analysis! All you say makes sense! I wish these BTAS fanatics could give us a similar analysis in defense of their beloved show!
THE TRUTH IS SPREADING!

Wow. Though I don't agree that B:TAS is superior to SSM, at least try to be respectful of others. Just because of my stance on both shows, it doesn't mean that I am only a fan of one. I do like both shows, and they happen to be my favorite interpretations of two of my favorite superheroes. So, by insulting someone that doesn't agree with your opinion, you are only hurting your case and making yourself look foolish.

If anything, I thank Joker/Doc Ock for his analysis in the other thread. It showed consideration and good writing, as opposed to the more simplistic, weak "No contest/No comparison" posts in there.

 

[Persian]

Wow. Though I don't agree that B:TAS is superior to SSM, at least try to be respectful of others. Just because of my stance on both shows, it doesn't mean that I am only a fan of one. I do like both shows, and they happen to be my favorite interpretations of two of my favorite superheroes. So, by insulting someone that doesn't agree with your opinion, you are only hurting your case and making yourself look foolish.

If anything, I thank Joker/Doc Ock for his analysis in the other thread. It showed consideration and good writing, as opposed to the more simplistic, weak "No contest/No comparison" posts in there.

[FONT=&quot]I only show respect to people who show some respect to me. No need to worry yourself. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]By the way I replied to J[/FONT][FONT=&quot]oker/Doc Ock analysis in that thread. Man do you really consider it an analysis?! It was more like narcissistic self-praise! [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]