Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 6

[Picard Sisko]

My theory is that Khan gave himself cosmetic surgery and taught himself how to speak with a British accent after being awoken.

 

[Loki882]

Considering that the British ruled India for over a century, Khan being of British descent isn't too much of a stretch. In fact, it makes more sense than him being a light-skinned Mexican.

 

[Snow Queen]

I can't believe that the commentary is an iTunes exclusive...

That and IMAX scenes. So disappointing to see that.

 

[Silvermoon]

So which place do you think has the best exclusive? Both Best Buy and Target have the blu ray/dvd/ digital copy listed as 19.99. I heard Best Buy has an exclusive bonus disc with behind the scenes features, and so does Target from what I heard. Which one are you guys going for?

back in the previous thread I posted a link to a site that gave more details about the featurettes available on the Target exclusive and the BB exclusive (here). They indicate that the BB exclusive will only have the exclusive as physical content in Canada. Here in the states it (I guess) will give you a code or something to use at their CinemaNow site. Personally I'm going for Target. Like I said there I've already found the BB content online (though I think it's been taken down already from where I found it......... good thing I saved it even though the quality isn't that great because it was ripped from BB's stupid CinemaNow site & the vid is a bit jerky).... and I most certainly don't have the hard drive space for the iTunes version with the commentary right now (which is nearly 5GB for the 720p/5.5GB for the 1080p).

So yeah, after work it's a stop by Target before I head home.

 

[CGHulk]

Bob Orci cancelled his Twitter account.
https://mobile.***********/boborci/

 

[marvelrobbins]

After attacking fans Is that a surprise?

 

[Loki882]

I actually can understand his frustration. It must be really annoying to have a vocal minority (I don't think all ST fans are this way, or even many of them) constantly *****ing and moaning about how he, Kurtzman, and JJ "ruined" or "bastardized" Star Trek. You know, the franchise that was DEAD for a decade before they came along and not only successfully resurrected and updated it, but brought in millions of NEW fans. I think that he could have chosen his words much more carefully, but I completely understand where Orci was coming from.

 

[wobbly]

I just found out tonight I might have met Cumberbatch....Back in the late 1970's though, lol.

See, my family was living in Kensington at that time (we were not rich btw, my parents both worked in the Iranian consulate in Kensington Square and our family lived in it's basement flat) and that was near his parents place, and my mum would often have chats with his Mum (Wanda Ventham). I do vaguely remember that (I was about 9 or 10), and there being a toddler running around, so I guess that could have been him.

 

[sabrecmc]

As a Star Wars geek, I love coming here and just being all, "I had fun! Great movie! Pretty people! Space!" It is so relaxing. Seriously, I really enjoyed the film. Got my DVD today. Now back to my SW cave where I can nitpick with the best of them!

 

[terry78]

And he looked exactly the same in the face didn't he?

 

[Sawyer]

I just found out tonight I might have met Cumberbatch....Back in the late 1970's though, lol.

See, my family was living in Kensington at that time (we were not rich btw, my parents both worked in the Iranian consulate in Kensington Square and our family lived in it's basement flat) and that was near his parents place, and my mum would often have chats with his Mum (Wanda Ventham). I do vaguely remember that (I was about 9 or 10), and there being a toddler running around, so I guess that could have been him.

And he looked exactly the same in the face didn't he?

*waits for Cumber-baby photoshops*

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Just saw the movie, thought it was great. Also good on Bob Orci for telling the whiners where to stick it.

 

[wobbly]

And he looked exactly the same in the face didn't he?

Lol, I honestly couldn't say. I only found out tonight as my Mum was round and there was an ad on the tv for some some crappy old movie with Wanda Ventham in it ('Captain Kronos' on the Horror Channel...) and My mum said about us knowing her back in Kensington (we had to move out a few months after the Shah was deposed and the Ayatollahs mob took over), and that she was the mum of 'that one from Sherlock' (this was news to me, I had no idea who his mum was).

I do remember seeing Wanda from back then a few times (remembered her face from the TV) and vaguely recall there being a toddler in tow, but I couldn't say at all what they looked like (my memory aint that good, lol)

 

[Lando81]

Any hate this film gets because it "messes with canon" is BULL. It's already well established that this takes place in a separate cannon from TOS and doesn't tarnish what already took place. Trek fans ought to be ashamed of themselves for how they've treated the people who have worked hard to bring Star Trek to the masses. I'm not excusing Orci's reaction but I stand by him 100%.

 

[Snow Queen]

*waits for Cumber-baby photoshops*

Can't be as bad as Schwarzenegger baby.

 

[Soapy]

I decided to watch Into Darkness again. I thought maybe I was crazy, or maybe I was just plain wrong about it. Yeah... I just really cannot wrap my ahead around why people love this movie so much. Even aside from my usual groaning, I just don't think it's a very good movie in general. All of the "emotional" scenes feel completely hollow and unearned. Worse still, I feel like nothing actually HAPPENED in the movie. All of the characters are in exactly the same positions at the end of the film as they were at the beginning. Hell, they're the same as they were at the end of last film. There was zero character growth or change or anything like that.

I'm not saying it's a BAD movie, I just do not at all understand why people have such an overwhelmingly positive opinion of it. I really don't get it.

 

[hunteri]

I decided to watch Into Darkness again. I thought maybe I was crazy, or maybe I was just plain wrong about it. Yeah... I just really cannot wrap my ahead around why people love this movie so much. Even aside from my usual groaning, I just don't think it's a very good movie in general. All of the "emotional" scenes feel completely hollow and unearned. Worse still, I feel like nothing actually HAPPENED in the movie. All of the characters are in exactly the same positions at the end of the film as they were at the beginning. Hell, they're the same as they were at the end of last film. There was zero character growth or change or anything like that.

I'm not saying it's a BAD movie, I just do not at all understand why people have such an overwhelmingly positive opinion of it. I really don't get it.

I know how you feel. My brother and a friend (who watches trek) really like this movie. The way I see it. Is that people have unique view of the movie based on how they feel and need in that moment in there life. It's like man of steel I really enjoyed even though it wasn't a good movie. I know if I had seen it 5 years ago I would hate it, because I wouldn't have liked a darker superman back then.

Also what Orci did was very unprofessional. You can't say he was saying that to the "crazy trekkii fans" who didn't like the movie. I am not crazy trekki (I haven't seen all the treks or even care for canon) and I didn't enjoy the movie . so he tells me to F*** off . Its just not cool. You see If you are in a creative field, you should except and welcome the fact that people don't enjoy your work. My first short film, my brother told me it was crap. I didn't tell him to Foff. I asked him what he didn't like and so when I made my second film it was 10x better. Orci should take this criticizem and fuel it to make his next project stronger and better. Or if he feels that he didn't do anything wrong with his movie then close the chat window, don't type anything. No justification is needed.

 

[H.U.S.T.L.E.]

I feel like nothing actually HAPPENED in the movie. All of the characters are in exactly the same positions at the end of the film as they were at the beginning. Hell, they're the same as they were at the end of last film. There was zero character growth or change or anything like that.

I'm not saying it's a BAD movie, I just do not at all understand why people have such an overwhelmingly positive opinion of it. I really don't get it.

I disagree with your opinion that there was zero character growth in this movie - I felt they did a very good job of expanding on the Kirk/Spock relationship, which has been the central storyline in the two newest installments. I'd agree with you if you had said that the supporting cast wasn't really fleshed out, but IMO the two main characters were handled very well.

In regards to the overwhelmingly positive opinion, I think when it comes down to it the filmmakers were trying to make an entertaining movie that reaches a wide audience... and I think they can say they've succeeded in that regard. It had great visuals, really good action sequences and a captivating villain. Say what you want about how that villain was written, but Cumberbatch is awesome in that role.

These are just my opinions though - I've never been a rabid Star Trek fan, but I've really enjoyed both of JJ's additions to the franchise.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Now that the JJ Abrams films have gained a much wider audience for Star Trek, the possibility for a new Star Trek TV series is even more likely than before. Even if the show is somewhat more action oriented, it could still go back to its roots and go back to themes of space exploration. People who really like the movies would tune in to watch the TV series, and then later go back to watch TOS or TNG if it is successful.

My only question is: would the show take place in the original timeline or in the JJ Abrams-verse? We've seen TOS films being released while TNG was on the air, so anything is possible.

 

[Soapy]

I disagree with your opinion that there was zero character growth in this movie - I felt they did a very good job of expanding on the Kirk/Spock relationship, which has been the central storyline in the two newest installments. I'd agree with you if you had said that the supporting cast wasn't really fleshed out, but IMO the two main characters were handled very well.

See, I'm just not getting that at all. I feel like nothing was done with the Kirk/Spock relationship in Into Darkness that wasn't done in the last one. In Star Trek '09 they started off not really getting along and by the end they're friends and see eye to eye, and in Into Darkness... what? They see more eye to eye? They're more friends? I guess?

And Kirk's journey in the movie is kind of indicative of the movie as a whole to me. He starts off as captain of the Enterprise, and then he isn't... and then by the end he is again. He starts off alive, and then he dies, and then by the end he's alive again (ridiculously, at the last second via Khan's magic blood no less). That's sort of what I mean about how the characters are in the exact same position at the end of the movie as they were in the beginning. There's no forward momentum and nothing of consequence happens. I think Star Trek Into Darkness feels almost like an episode of an old sitcom in how everything kind of "resets" and is back to business as usual by the end.

 

[Soapy]

Now that the JJ Abrams films have gained a much wider audience for Star Trek, the possibility for a new Star Trek TV series is even more likely than before. Even if the show is somewhat more action oriented, it could still go back to its roots and go back to themes of space exploration. People who really like the movies would tune in to watch the TV series, and then later go back to watch TOS or TNG if it is successful.

My only question is: would the show take place in the original timeline or in the JJ Abrams-verse? We've seen TOS films being released while TNG was on the air, so anything is possible.

As much as I would love it if they went back to the original timeline, I can't imagine they would do that. Especially since we know that there has already been a proposed Abramsverse series that never got off the ground. I mean I honestly don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, so never say never, but I just don't see it happening.

 

[H.U.S.T.L.E.]

See, I'm just not getting that at all. I feel like nothing was done with the Kirk/Spock relationship in Into Darkness that wasn't done in the last one. In Star Trek '09 they started off not really getting along and by the end they're friends and see eye to eye, and in Into Darkness... what? They see more eye to eye? They're more friends? I guess?

And Kirk's journey in the movie is kind of indicative of the movie as a whole to me. He starts off as captain of the Enterprise, and then he isn't... and then by the end he is again. He starts off alive, and then he dies, and then by the end he's alive again (ridiculously, at the last second via Khan's magic blood no less). That's sort of what I mean about how the characters are in the exact same position at the end of the movie as they were in the beginning. There's no forward momentum and nothing of consequence happens. I think Star Trek Into Darkness feels almost like an episode of an old sitcom in how everything kind of "resets" and is back to business as usual by the end.

I understand what you mean - I'm not trying to say you're wrong for feeling that way about the movie, and I'd even agree that the plot is a bit derivative at times (especially Kirk's journey as you detailed it). Having said that, I still think the movie is immensely enjoyable on a multitude of levels. The performances all-around are very strong IMO, and that's why even something as predictable as Kirk dying still had emotional weight to me.

Even though you feel like they didn't do anything new, I'm of the opinion that it's not necessarily a bad idea. And yes, I think forming an even stronger bond between Kirk & Spock is really the whole point... that's how friendships develop over time, so it makes sense to me.

So while it's not the greatest movie ever (not even the best Star Trek movie), I find it highly entertaining and extremely re-watchable. I know that not everyone feels the same way though.

 

[Loki882]

To be fair, Kirk and Spock's relationship never really progressed all that much in the ORIGINAL movies either. Yeah Spock died, and they had disagreements from time to time, but they're friendship was never really in trouble. In fact, none of the ST movie really did anything new. That's what so annoying about people calling JJ's films "generic action movies" pretty much ALL of the ST movies were like that. None of them really focused on exploring and discovery, the TV shows did, but you can do that over a season of TV better than in a two hour movie. Most of the films have been focused on the action, only TMP and TVH really tried anything different, and TMP failed in that regard.

 

[jacobed]

I enjoyed this a lot but some of the logic questions just bug me. Why is the ship.in the beginning underwater. Khan can teleport across galaxies with a little box but they cant teleport onto a planet? Also the teleporting at the end. In the first movie he was able to teleport them while they're falling and now he can't when they're on a ship movie which should be easier because theyre traveling at more predictable journey. Also sending her there was really a facepalm moment. And why couldn't they just take the blood from one of the others in cyrosleep. Holy a lot of just dumb things in here that shouldn't be.

 

[Silvermoon]

I enjoyed this a lot but some of the logic questions just bug me. Why is the ship.in the beginning underwater. Khan can teleport across galaxies with a little box but they cant teleport onto a planet? Also the teleporting at the end. In the first movie he was able to teleport them while they're falling and now he can't when they're on a ship movie which should be easier because theyre traveling at more predictable journey. Also sending her there was really a facepalm moment. And why couldn't they just take the blood from one of the others in cyrosleep. Holy a lot of just dumb things in here that shouldn't be.

The novelization *does* answer some of these questions, but I know... novelizations aren't always canon and it would be nice if they had been able to fit the explanations into the film (maybe they didn't fit pacing wise, who knows). So take these for what it's worth (even if it means you want to disregard them)

Some of the answers in the novelization:

On the Khan Teleporting: He doesn't go straight from Earth to Qo'noS, it's more that he does bunny hops with each one requiring more power to go a greater distance. The final hop is from a cargo ship or station (can't remember exactly which) which uses so much power that it completely burns out the transwarp/transporter device which prevents anyone from following that way. Spock also notes that it would take an extremely robust human to survive such a drastic transport (that even a Vulcan would be stressed by the process). The movie somewhat hints that it wasn't direct because when he appears on Qo'noS he's wearing a coat that he wasn't wearing in the jump ship when he was attacking Starfleet.

Teleporting at the end: The difference here being that instead of falling vertically with very little horizontal movement (well, at least relatively speaking), Spock and Khan are travelling horizontally + they're traveling through a heavily populated city (instead of the mostly deserted/evacuated area of Vulcan). The book clarifies that with how fast their moving, plus the densly populated area, this results in it being difficult to get a lock on them to beam them up.

Finally the blood, I referenced this on the previous page of this thread (emphasis by me):

“Carol gazing at him intently. “What about bringing one of the other members of Khan’s crew out of cryosleep? Even if they don’t revive . . . properly . . . it’s not their opinions we need.”

McCoy looked toward the prone form of Kirk lying motionless on the gurney, where he continued to be prepped and monitored by the team of medical technicians.

“Too risky. I think this might work with Khan. I don’t know how much alike he and his crew are, and I don’t have time to find out. If there’s even the slightest unresolved difference between their respective physiologies, then we might be doing nothing but wasting our time and what little, if any, Jim has left. And I have to have Khan alive, because I don’t know what death might do to his body . . . or the viability of its respective components.” He shook his head in dismay. “It’s Khan—or nothing.”

Excerpt From: Alan Dean Foster. “Star Trek Into Darkness.” Gallery Books. iBooks.

Which makes sense to me, Bones is a doctor, he's going to go with what he *knows* works and try to recreate those conditions as much as he can instead of having to experiment with possible unknown variables.

Again, take 'em for what it's worth. Me personally, I'm fine with treating novelizations as a secondary-canon (so long as they don't contradict anything that appears in the film -- or in future films - if they do, then the film canon is first and foremost), but I understand if others choose to completely disregard them