Suicide Squad: General Discussion and Speculation - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 31

[Greens]

Most of the blockbusters this year were mediocre, too. The thing is, all of the studios would have to stop doing it at the same time. Fox can't stop while Universal and WB keep going, it would damage their position.

 

[jmc]

I know THR reported the 800 number but I'm still not 100% convinced that's the break even number. That seems really high.

But the point is so silly to argue about when none of us know the actual number

If that is the break even number then someone in accounting needs to be fired.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I'm not even a huge fan of the film, but a remake of the Assault on Arkham script with a bigger budget and a bit more introduction to the lesser known characters would have been a better movie than what we got.

 

[miltonh]

To all the people that said that the film would have been better if the group was just sent to take on the Joker (perhaps after he takes over Arkham or something), I wholeheartedly agree. No one in the Squad aside from El Diablo (and maybe Katana, who you could completely excise from the script and not lose anything) really has any abilities that would make them fit for taking on a supernatural entity. Deadshot has guns. Flag has guns. Harley has a gun, a bat and some gymnastics moves. Croc is stronger than your average human and can swim like a fish, but he's not really super-powered. Boomerang throws Boomerangs. These aren't the people you send against a supervillain of that kind. But sending them against a supervillain with a large criminal network like the Joker makes sense. Especially considering Harley is there. It really never made much sense to have her on the team to begin with; she's batsh** crazy and yeah, she's a dangerous hand-to-hand combatant, but how she got that way is never really all that clear. Maybe she was a gymnast and a martial artist her who life, but it didn't look like she was much of a fighter when the Joker's thugs took over Arkham and attacked her. So somehow she gained these amazing fighting abilities from hanging around the Joker for a few years? Maybe, but it seems a little flaky. However, having her on the team to get intel in taking down the Joker WOULD make sense. And while she wouldn't want to betray Mr. J, she may go along with it simply because it means she gets to see him again.

Anyway, just thought I'd get that out. But sadly, WB seems to think that in this DC shared universe, there needs to be a ton of CGI and death to make a movie good.

Spot on. I think something like Predator or Con Air should be the main inspiration for a Suicide Squad movie but now in every big-budget blockbuster you just have to save the world. And show as much CGI as possible.

 

[jmc]

I really wonder if most studios will look at this year's box office and see all the mistakes they've made and change moving forward. My guess is no

The mid-size movie has been virtually eliminated because studios are chasing massive dollars. The problem is for the most part that billion dollar mark is a pipe dream for most movies. Studios need to start tightening budgets and start setting more realistic goals. Not every movie has to be an event film. If Deadpool can be made for less than $60m there is no excuse for other studios. The mid-size movie needs to start making a comeback.

 

[MadVillainy]

To all the people that said that the film would have been better if the group was just sent to take on the Joker (perhaps after he takes over Arkham or something), I wholeheartedly agree. No one in the Squad aside from El Diablo (and maybe Katana, who you could completely excise from the script and not lose anything) really has any abilities that would make them fit for taking on a supernatural entity. Deadshot has guns. Flag has guns. Harley has a gun, a bat and some gymnastics moves. Croc is stronger than your average human and can swim like a fish, but he's not really super-powered. Boomerang throws Boomerangs. These aren't the people you send against a supervillain of that kind. But sending them against a supervillain with a large criminal network like the Joker makes sense. Especially considering Harley is there. It really never made much sense to have her on the team to begin with; she's batsh** crazy and yeah, she's a dangerous hand-to-hand combatant, but how she got that way is never really all that clear. Maybe she was a gymnast and a martial artist her who life, but it didn't look like she was much of a fighter when the Joker's thugs took over Arkham and attacked her. So somehow she gained these amazing fighting abilities from hanging around the Joker for a few years? Maybe, but it seems a little flaky. However, having her on the team to get intel in taking down the Joker WOULD make sense. And while she wouldn't want to betray Mr. J, she may go along with it simply because it means she gets to see him again.

Anyway, just thought I'd get that out. But sadly, WB seems to think that in this DC shared universe, there needs to be a ton of CGI and death to make a movie good.

Yeah Kristian Harloff of Schmoes Know and Collider pointed this out. While it's true I think it's one of those things you just have to kinda ignore. One of those major plot holes that while makes sense woud just negate the whole movie.


I do very much agree about going after the Joker.
AS I said before in another version of this thread.
1. Have a macguffin maybe Kryptonite, something for CADMUS or something supernatural
2. HAve Waller get the Squad because the mission is too dangerous to send a platoon of soldiers
3. The MacGuffin is also sought after by Deathstroke (maybe Livewire is on DS's side too)
4. It's revealed that the Joker has stolen the MacGuffin
5. The finale is a battle between the Squad, Joker's forces, and Deathstroke's team

Introduced new Joker for a future Batman film. Introduced Deathstroke for future use in another Suicide Squad movie or Titans/Teen Titans films. Introduced the Squad. Introduced Livewire for future appearances. Potentially introduced CADMUS for future use.

 

[harlequinade]

As a whole, I found the movie to be very entertaining and nowhere near as bad as critics suggested. It's not perfect by any means, sure, but it was a good time for me. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

Thought Jared was fantastic in the role, reminded me a lot of TAS Joker & Snyder's during the Endgame arc. I so badly want to see more of this version. I won't say he's better than Ledger but this is probably my favorite live action iteration.

Same here!

"If I die, the scenes will prob be released"... That is an ignorant ****ing comment. My opinion.

I'm 100% sure Jared didn't think of Ledger while making that statement nor does he have obligation to.

 

[MadVillainy]

Most of the blockbusters this year were mediocre, too. The thing is, all of the studios would have to stop doing it at the same time. Fox can't stop while Universal and WB keep going, it would damage their position.

For sure.

I havent seen Squad yet but Ive only enjoyed 2 blockbusters Ive seen this year: Star Trek Beyond and Civil War. And the only one I REALLY enjoyed was Star Trek Beyond.

I'm not even a huge fan of the film, but a remake of the Assault on Arkham script with a bigger budget and a bit more introduction to the lesser known characters would have been a better movie than what we got.

Yeah I find Assault on Arkham to actually be kinda s***y. But the plot works.

I wouldve loved for Suicide Squad to come out after JL and the do something similar to the Task Force X episode although that also would require a bigger budget

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah Kristian Harloff of Schmoes Know and Collider pointed this out. While it's true I think it's one of those things you just have to kinda ignore. One of those major plot holes that while makes sense woud just negate the whole movie.


I do very much agree about going after the Joker.
AS I said before in another version of this thread.
1. Have a macguffin maybe Kryptonite, something for CADMUS or something supernatural
2. HAve Waller get the Squad because the mission is too dangerous to send a platoon of soldiers
3. The MacGuffin is also sought after by Deathstroke (maybe Livewire is on DS's side too)
4. It's revealed that the Joker has stolen the MacGuffin
5. The finale is a battle between the Squad, Joker's forces, and Deathstroke's team

Introduced new Joker for a future Batman film. Introduced Deathstroke for future use in another Suicide Squad movie or Titans/Teen Titans films. Introduced the Squad. Introduced Livewire for future appearances. Potentially introduced CADMUS for future use.

Brilliant. Something like THAT would have worked really well. Some minor superhuman/supernatural elements but it's not the focus of the movie.

I was initially disappointed after no actor was announced to play Deathstroke in this film. But now, after seeing it, I'm glad that didn't happen so they didn't risk ruining him, lol. I just hope that he does show up somewhere down the line (probably in a Batman movie, a Batman & the Justice League movie, or a Batman v. Some Other Hero Who Will Take a Backseat to Batman movie) and is handled well, because I'm sick and tired of CW fans acting like the Arrowverse version of Deathstroke is the end-all, be-all of the character. No, he's not an Australian psychopath who is obsessed with a dead girl he never even hooked up with.

 

[Greens]

It's kind of sad that the fans can think of a better story. The same happened with BvS.

 

[Kathemy]

Age of Ultron is on a whole different level. That's a great movie with a ton of wonderful character stuff and excellent action scenes.

Are you sure you didn't step into a theater showing Watchmen by accident and just thought it was Age of Ultron?

 

[DeadStroke]

Are you sure you didn't step into a theater showing Watchmen by accident and just thought it was Age of Ultron?

Lol I was wondering the same thing.

 

[Rowsdower!]

It's kind of sad that the fans can think of a better story. The same happened with BvS.

What's even sadder is that these stories have already been written. There are plenty of examples of stories where Batman and Superman fight or meet that are better than BvS. And there are plenty of examples of Suicide Squad stories where the team takes on a threat that they could realistically take down. But WB and their chosen talent pool just seem to ignore them in favor of new, bad ideas. It's depressing.

 

[harlequinade]

Are you sure you didn't step into a theater showing Watchmen by accident and just thought it was Age of Ultron?

oh snap

 

[harlequinade]

What's even sadder is that these stories have already been written. There are plenty of examples of stories where Batman and Superman fight or meet that are better than BvS. And there are plenty of examples of Suicide Squad stories where the team takes on a threat that they could realistically take down. But WB and their chosen talent pool just seem to ignore them in favor of new, bad ideas. It's depressing.

It's also insulting. Like they think people are idiots who need flashy CGI and s*** exploding in the sky to enjoy themselves

 

[Greens]

What's even sadder is that these stories have already been written. There are plenty of examples of stories where Batman and Superman fight or meet that are better than BvS. And there are plenty of examples of Suicide Squad stories where the team takes on a threat that they could realistically take down. But WB and their chosen talent pool just seem to ignore them in favor of new, bad ideas. It's depressing.

Yup. I've got a lot of respect for Ayer but I don't know why he was attracted to this idea. He excluded King Shark because he would have been a CG character but he includes a crappy CG villain. It's so strange.

 

[MadVillainy]

Did he include the CGI villains from the start? Or was that in the reshoots

I'm not sure if anyone knows

 

[DeadStroke]

Yeah Kristian Harloff of Schmoes Know and Collider pointed this out. While it's true I think it's one of those things you just have to kinda ignore. One of those major plot holes that while makes sense woud just negate the whole movie.


I do very much agree about going after the Joker.
AS I said before in another version of this thread.
1. Have a macguffin maybe Kryptonite, something for CADMUS or something supernatural
2. HAve Waller get the Squad because the mission is too dangerous to send a platoon of soldiers
3. The MacGuffin is also sought after by Deathstroke (maybe Livewire is on DS's side too)
4. It's revealed that the Joker has stolen the MacGuffin
5. The finale is a battle between the Squad, Joker's forces, and Deathstroke's team

Introduced new Joker for a future Batman film. Introduced Deathstroke for future use in another Suicide Squad movie or Titans/Teen Titans films. Introduced the Squad. Introduced Livewire for future appearances. Potentially introduced CADMUS for future use.

That sounds....awesome.


Just an epic chaotic battle at the end sounds amazing and something that fits Ayer.

Who really thought David Ayer would do a huge CGI end of the world type movie? Never would have guessed he'd go that route.

 

[TheFuture]

Well I saw it this morning and thought it was ok. The acting saves it with Will Smith and Jay Hernandez sticking out for particular mention.

I don't know what happened in the editing room but for me the beginning and end were strong, but it all meant little because the middle, as in a good hour, is so poor. I can't really say much more than that. For example El Diablo calling them his family towards the end, when based on what we saw before that, it's not earned.

It was a likeable experience for the acting alone. That's the best I can say for it. Leto really isn't in it enough to judge him but safe to say his Joker will stand out as unique. I really feel that I have to see him interact with Affleck in a story he's central to before I can give a definitive opinion.

But I do think it's silly to write him off based on his role in this film. Some people are just eager to confirm their own pre-conceived opinions to be frank. I'm not referring to anyone here when I say that moreso the hacks that make a living from this kind of thing.

Ultimately a decent but disappointing experience. I think 2.5/5 is fair, as in it's simply a middling effort. Critics have been harsh again.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yup. I've got a lot of respect for Ayer but I don't know why he was attracted to this idea. He excluded King Shark because he would have been a CG character but he includes a crappy CG villain. It's so strange.

Oh yeah, wasn't some guy supposedly cast as King Shark? Anyone know whatever happened with that?

 

[MadVillainy]

That sounds....awesome.


Just an epic chaotic battle at the end sounds amazing and something that fits Ayer.

Who really thought David Ayer would do a huge CGI end of the world type movie? Never would have guessed he'd go that route.

Maybe he wanted to see if he could pull it off

Well I saw it this morning and thought it was ok. The acting saves it with Will Smith and Jay Hernandez sticking out for particular mention.

I don't know what happened in the editing room but for me the beginning and end were strong, but it all meant little because the middle, as in a good hour, is so poor. I can't really say much more than that. For example El Diablo calling them his family towards the end, when based on what we saw before that, it's not earned.

It was a likeable experience for the acting alone. That's the best I can say for it. Leto really isn't in it enough to judge him but safe to say his Joker will stand out as unique. I really feel that I have to see him interact with Affleck in a story he's central to before I can give a definitive opinion.

But I do think it's silly to write him off based on his role in this film. Some people are just eager to confirm their own pre-conceived opinions to be frank. I'm not referring to anyone here when I say that moreso the hacks that make a living from this kind of thing.

Ultimately a decent but disappointing experience. I think 2.5/5 is fair, as in it's simply a middling effort. Critics have been harsh again.

But by the same token can't you say the same people who say that he's the best Joker or is their favorite are also eager to confirm their pre conceived notion?

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

this has been pointed out before 'round these parts, but the ostrander suicide squad, which ayer seems to be most inspired by, took on supernatural threats, as well as a major threat from apokolips, so the base plot of the movie sounds to be faithful to the team's history. i think there's a general assumption that the squad is a black ops group, but what made them so much fun when they debuted was the outlandish villains they took on. their debut, in fact, was in ostrander's 'legends' which saw them dealing with the aforementioned apokolips and it wasn't the last time they faced off against darkseid and his minions. and yes, it was just as ridiculous that captain boomerang, deadshot, rick flag, bronze tiger and other members were fighting wizards and new gods, but it was also a big part of its charm.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Well I saw it this morning and thought it was ok. The acting saves it with Will Smith and Jay Hernandez sticking out for particular mention.

I don't know what happened in the editing room but for me the beginning and end were strong, but it all meant little because the middle, as in a good hour, is so poor. I can't really say much more than that. For example El Diablo calling them his family towards the end, when based on what we saw before that, it's not earned.

It was a likeable experience for the acting alone. That's the best I can say for it. Leto really isn't in it enough to judge him but safe to say his Joker will stand out as unique. I really feel that I have to see him interact with Affleck in a story he's central to before I can give a definitive opinion.

But I do think it's silly to write him off based on his role in this film. Some people are just eager to confirm their own pre-conceived opinions to be frank. I'm not referring to anyone here when I say that moreso the hacks that make a living from this kind of thing.

Ultimately a decent but disappointing experience. I think 2.5/5 is fair, as in it's simply a middling effort. Critics have been harsh again.

Agree with this in particular. The middle of the film felt really awkward, though I also feel the beginning was so choppy that it made it a little hard to follow and the shifts from character to character were jarring. And yeah, the thing with El Diablo at the end wasn't earned at all. He barely said or did anything until that bar scene, and had very little interaction with the other characters.

 

[miltonh]

Oh yeah, wasn't some guy supposedly cast as King Shark? Anyone know whatever happened with that?

That's what El Mayimbe said but every single of his Skwad rumours was wrong.

 

[Greens]

Oh yeah, wasn't some guy supposedly cast as King Shark? Anyone know whatever happened with that?

Probably just a baseless rumor.