Suicide Squad: General Discussion and Speculation - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 35

[matt47]

I hope not. Deathstroke should be used as a TT/Nightwing/Green Arrow villain IMO. He has suffered from becoming an all-access villain/character and being moved around to much over the years. He needs to be put with characters he has good history with and has worked well with before IMO.

I honestly don't mind deathstroke being an all round villain. As long as it makes sense.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I put this idea in another thread, but maybe have Deadshot tasked with hunting down Deathstroke for Waller but it turns into a grudge match to prove who the world's best assassin is.

How about this.

"Deadshot v Deathstroke v Deadpool: Dawn of We're the Same Character."

A WB / Fox joint

 

[Slade W]

I honestly don't mind deathstroke being an all round villain. As long as it makes sense.

I disagree. I think it is better for characters to have settled villains/heroes to go up against. It is harder for characters to go over with fans if there is constantly changes with them IMO. Some of Deathstrokes best stories are as a TT villain. That should be built on and taken advantage of IMO. When you look at a lot of the best characters in comics, they have settled worlds. You know their friends and enemies are. With DS, that has changed too much over the years IMO, and he has lost his character and identity as a result, apart from "badass assassin", which as cool as that may be, will only take you so far. It takes more to tell good stories and to be an interesting character.

Christopher Priest is doing a great job ATM, by having him interact with characters he has history with, and focusing on the character and not how badass he is. They would do well to use him similarly in the DCEU, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't.

 

[Wildcard]

How about this.

"Deadshot v Deathstroke v Deadpool: Dawn of We're the Same Character."

A WB / Fox joint

But they're not even remotely close to being the same character.

 

[Val_Zod]

But they're not even remotely close to being the same character.

Would have worked in the early 90s.

 

[Kane52630]

Rumor: Megan Fox Could Be Up For Poison Ivy Role In Gotham City Sirens

 

[NotNickFury]

Some things should just remain rumors. And hopefully it's just that, though not that people need any more of a reason to dislike this news.

 

[mclay18]

He gets to work with Margot Robbie again. That's enough motivation for any man.

I also think several other things worked to get Ayer back.

1) WB's recent ouster of Greg Silverman the day after this announcement, with New Line's Toby Emmerich getting a promotion.
2) Emmerich's solid handling of the New Line label since being absorbed into WB has lead to consistently profitable films, with only a handful of mid-range duds and only one big budget flop.
3) I have a feeling Gotham City Sirens will be made for significantly less than Suicide Squad, and the studio likely promised Ayer more creative freedom at that level.

 

[DeadStroke]

Saw this on IMDB

My recut of the movie:

*Remove most of the overpowering soundtrack.

Open on the scene of June More exploring, falling in the cave. Turns into Enchantress. Reshoot: her hand clutches the doll.

Cut to Amanda Waller walking into the restaurant. Hold longer on Superman's dead. Remove Rolling Stones for more haunting simple music. Cut her 'going through the team, pointless narration' and the mention that she has 'found her team'. Establish only that she has this idea of a team. end on 'some bad people I believe can do some good.

Opening Title Screen.
Deathshot assassination scene. Scene with daughter. Captured by the Bat.

Captain Boomerang scene. Get captured by the Flash.

Let Diablo scene of him fighting with his wife after she discovered drugs and money in their home. Reshoot scene where she threatens to leave and take the kids. Show him losing control. Cut to house on fire, he steps out and gives himself up. Sad music and hold on this moment to FEEL emotion.

Joker and Harley nightclub scene. Car chase. Bat capture as is.

Amanda Waller boardroom scene. What if the next Superman is evil speech. Reshoot what you can't cut around Enchantress being there.

Prison scenes of the Guard feeding Deadshot, Croc and Harley.

The Joker surrounded by knives scene.

Amanda Waller and Flag visits prison and recruits the gang scenes.

Cut to Enchantress appearing in the Subway station. Releases her brother.

The Suicide Squad are deployed.

The rest of the film is pretty much as is except that the Top Secret file reveals that Flag and June were lovers, she was on an Argus sanctioned expedition looking for the ruins (which Amanda wanted as a potential weapon) when she went missing. Setting up that this mission is really for Amanda to hide her mistake (same motive as the movie) and that Flag has a personal stake in this.

 

[Sleiek]

That would have been better. I still don't understand why the movie opened on Will Smith and Margot Robbie. Actually, I understand but that was silly to open on your star power and then start the film.

 

[Nardz937]

Fox would be much more fitting for Catwoman than Poison Ivy. Not that I would I want to see her play either.

 

[harlequinade]

Rumor: Megan Fox Could Be Up For Poison Ivy Role In Gotham City Sirens

Eh with Ayer directing this is doomed anyways so it's better if they won't waste actual good actress' time and get someone like Fox

 

[The Joker]

Eh with Ayer directing this is doomed anyways so it's better if they won't waste actual good actress' time and get someone like Fox

How true. Having good actors in SS didn't save it.

 

[ironman29758]

Honestly Ayer is a hit or miss director. When it's a hit, it is good (Fury, End of Watch, the script he had for Training Day, etc), but when it is a miss, it is a miss (Street Kings debatably, Suicide Squad, etc).


Yes, the Suicide Squad was horrible, but honestly I just wished he did more working with the script to make the characters actually more morally ambiguous or let their actions speak for them as opposed to have them just speak one liners about how much of bad guys they are and let the paper thin , which wore thin quickly as well as a paper thin, barely fleshed out plot.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Interested in seeing his Netflix movie Bright starring Will Smith as cop who handles magic related cases

If it's good it might renew some faith in Ayer

 

[Robin91939]

While I kind of enjoyed this film in theaters, I knew it was a giant missed opportunity. I bought the Blu Ray extended edition last night and watched it again.

While the Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice Ultimate Edition made what I thought was a strong film a great film, this offered very little improvement.

Suicide Squad is just such an epic missed opportunity that it makes me mad to watch it. The characters are great. Their interactions are fun. The actors are all game. They're just stuck in a piss-poor, awkward and weird story.

The main issue falls on The Enchantress. She's just weird, cheesy and way too silly to be taken seriously as a threat. Her "machine" is completely generic. The time table that it takes to create the machine is horribly arbitrary and her powers are never clearly defined.

Delete her (and her terrible, terrible brother) from the movie and give the Squad a threat worthy of the team's chemistry and the actors playing them.

David Ayer shot for the moon with the threat level of this film, thinking he had to go apocalyptic. Not every super hero film has to be about saving the world! This would have been a much better film with a small-scale but dangerous threat.

Further, lose the "metahuman defense" angle. It makes no sense with the characters you are using:
Deadshot - not a meta
Harley - not a meta
Harkness - not a meta
Katana - not a meta
Splitknot- not a meta
Flag - not a meta

You have TWO metahumans on this "metahuman" team: Killer Croc and Diablo.

I know it's been suggested, but it's really a no brainer ... Joker should have been the main villain of this movie. Weaving him in and out of the story the way they did as a B-player was an awful waste of a great character and an amazing actor. Outside of a deleted scene that's added to the Extended Edition, this Joker has no world view. We don't know why he's doing anything he does. All we know is that he's a bad dude and a ruthless gang leader. If we erased the 70-plus years of Joker history and were only introduced to him with this film and no previous baggage, there's nothing to fill in the gaps to understand who the Joker is. Conversely, The Dark Knight gave us a full grasp of who this guy was.

I'm a HUGE Man of Steel fan and very much enjoyed Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice even though it wasn't the way I would have brought those two characters together ... Suicide Squad disappointed the hell out of me.

-R

 

[Bren]

Just watched it.
Total tripe.

 

[Zero_Effect]

Always does good work with these.

[YT]U2TRItGklnQ[/YT]

 

[hellblazer103]

Rumor: Megan Fox Could Be Up For Poison Ivy Role In Gotham City Sirens

Damn do I love Eric Andre and Hannibal Buress and .... Idk, I guess Wiz Khalifa is okay sometimes, too.

 

[Wildcard]

While I kind of enjoyed this film in theaters, I knew it was a giant missed opportunity. I bought the Blu Ray extended edition last night and watched it again.

While the Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice Ultimate Edition made what I thought was a strong film a great film, this offered very little improvement.

Suicide Squad is just such an epic missed opportunity that it makes me mad to watch it. The characters are great. Their interactions are fun. The actors are all game. They're just stuck in a piss-poor, awkward and weird story.

The main issue falls on The Enchantress. She's just weird, cheesy and way too silly to be taken seriously as a threat. Her "machine" is completely generic. The time table that it takes to create the machine is horribly arbitrary and her powers are never clearly defined.

Delete her (and her terrible, terrible brother) from the movie and give the Squad a threat worthy of the team's chemistry and the actors playing them.

David Ayer shot for the moon with the threat level of this film, thinking he had to go apocalyptic. Not every super hero film has to be about saving the world! This would have been a much better film with a small-scale but dangerous threat.

Further, lose the "metahuman defense" angle. It makes no sense with the characters you are using:
Deadshot - not a meta
Harley - not a meta
Harkness - not a meta
Katana - not a meta
Splitknot- not a meta
Flag - not a meta

You have TWO metahumans on this "metahuman" team: Killer Croc and Diablo.

I know it's been suggested, but it's really a no brainer ... Joker should have been the main villain of this movie. Weaving him in and out of the story the way they did as a B-player was an awful waste of a great character and an amazing actor. Outside of a deleted scene that's added to the Extended Edition, this Joker has no world view. We don't know why he's doing anything he does. All we know is that he's a bad dude and a ruthless gang leader. If we erased the 70-plus years of Joker history and were only introduced to him with this film and no previous baggage, there's nothing to fill in the gaps to understand who the Joker is. Conversely, The Dark Knight gave us a full grasp of who this guy was.

I'm a HUGE Man of Steel fan and very much enjoyed Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice even though it wasn't the way I would have brought those two characters together ... Suicide Squad disappointed the hell out of me.

-R

Speaking of the whole meta-human thing, I just noticed how Amanda describes Enchantress as "a being from another dimension, another world" and then right after she refers to her as a meta-human.

I seriously want to know every drug Ayer was on while writing and directing this.

 

[TheRedWraith]

Similarly in the past meta-human is being used as a catch all term for people with powers, the initial part was just describing her powers.

 

[TheRedWraith]

So regarding the Deadshot solo depending on what they do prequel or sequel then there are two options that I can see with both involving the Secret Six, as I really want them to be the villains in SS2. So I say do Deadshot first and if it is a prequel I would have it so that the mysterious Mockingbird (maybe she/he is revealed to be Waller or Luthor at some point for a reason I have yet to think up) is assembling a crew for a job of which the members would be Deadshot, Catman, Ragdoll, Scandal Savage, Cheshire, and Knockout would do the mission with deadshot as the leader (Bane wouldn't be in this incarnation) and then after the mission is over Deadshot not being a team player yet and preferring to stay solo would move on but most of the others would decide they liked being part of a team and stay together.

If Deadshot is a sequel then I would have Rick Flagg and Deadshot sent out for a simple mission to assassinate someone but they run into the Six who would be comprised of Bane, Catman, Ragdoll, Scandal Savage, Cheshire, and Knockout with them struggling to complete their mission let alone survive, with Deadshot and Rick managing to kill Knockout with the help of Cheshire enraging Scandal who was married to Knockout and setting up a deep seated grudge between the Six and Flagg, Deadshot and Cheshire.

Then in SS2 the entire Squad (comprised of Rick Flagg, Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, Killer Croc, Bronze Tiger, Plastique, Copperhead (female version), Katana) runs up against Six (comprised of Bane, Catman, Ragdoll, Scandal Savage, King Shark, and Black Alice); with the movie ending with the six getting away but suffering heavy casualties of Catman, Ragdoll, and Black Alice while they have also Captured King Shark gearing him up for an appearance in SS3 with the Six not the only ones to suffer casualties the Squad would lose Plastique and Bronze Tiger.

 

[wnjcwjkk]

While I kind of enjoyed this film in theaters, I knew it was a giant missed opportunity. I bought the Blu Ray extended edition last night and watched it again.

While the Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice Ultimate Edition made what I thought was a strong film a great film, this offered very little improvement.

Suicide Squad is just such an epic missed opportunity that it makes me mad to watch it. The characters are great. Their interactions are fun. The actors are all game. They're just stuck in a piss-poor, awkward and weird story.

The main issue falls on The Enchantress. She's just weird, cheesy and way too silly to be taken seriously as a threat. Her "machine" is completely generic. The time table that it takes to create the machine is horribly arbitrary and her powers are never clearly defined.

Delete her (and her terrible, terrible brother) from the movie and give the Squad a threat worthy of the team's chemistry and the actors playing them.

David Ayer shot for the moon with the threat level of this film, thinking he had to go apocalyptic. Not every super hero film has to be about saving the world! This would have been a much better film with a small-scale but dangerous threat.

Further, lose the "metahuman defense" angle. It makes no sense with the characters you are using:
Deadshot - not a meta
Harley - not a meta
Harkness - not a meta
Katana - not a meta
Splitknot- not a meta
Flag - not a meta

You have TWO metahumans on this "metahuman" team: Killer Croc and Diablo.

I know it's been suggested, but it's really a no brainer ... Joker should have been the main villain of this movie. Weaving him in and out of the story the way they did as a B-player was an awful waste of a great character and an amazing actor. Outside of a deleted scene that's added to the Extended Edition, this Joker has no world view. We don't know why he's doing anything he does. All we know is that he's a bad dude and a ruthless gang leader. If we erased the 70-plus years of Joker history and were only introduced to him with this film and no previous baggage, there's nothing to fill in the gaps to understand who the Joker is. Conversely, The Dark Knight gave us a full grasp of who this guy was.

I'm a HUGE Man of Steel fan and very much enjoyed Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice even though it wasn't the way I would have brought those two characters together ... Suicide Squad disappointed the hell out of me.

-R

Agree with everything you said, except I think it actually wasn't a bad idea to have Joker as a side character, they just botched it. I think give us just enough of him to get people excited about the new incarnation, and wanting to see him in a Batman film, like maybe they needed Harley to return to Joker undercover because he has some underworld connection that they need to get information, like setting up a meet with some terrorist cell, and Harley has to wear a wire, and they have surveillance and Joker is suspicious of her and asking her how she got out of prison, something along those lines, similar to what you'd see in an FBI or CIA type movie. Give the audience just enough of Joker that they can't wait to see more. Like, can you imagine if Ledger's Joker showed up for a couple big scenes in a movie prior to Dark Knight, people would be intrigued and want more.

Agreed that the movie was a big missed opportunity, it even kinda has me less enthused about other upcoming DCEU pics, because it gives me the impression the studio doesn't care much about getting it right. Which is a shame, they should be going all out trying to offer quality films, to combat the Marvel bias, and cement people's trust in their brand, to get bigger box office results in future films.



Been thinking about it, Suicide Squad should have been rated R, deliver on the bad guys premise, stylized with violence and gore and dark humor, and fun. I'm not the biggest Quentin Tarantino fan, but I do enjoy most of his films, and I think SS would work perfectly with the Tarantino style of movies. I actually think it could've been great if Tarantino were willing to write and direct it, to bring in his fan base, and I think the characters and story is tailor made to his sensibilities, I imagine he could do really good things with crazy, over the top characters like Harley and Joker, like DiCaprio's Calvin Candie for one example. Suicide Squad should've had that Kill Bill, Reservoir Dogs, Django, Inglorious Bastards, Pulp Fiction, Hateful Eight vibe, go all out with the multiple crazy characters, vulgarity, violence, and dark humor. Could've even been a bigger R rated hit than Deadpool.



I mean, I think I read on here David Ayer had been lobbying to do a SS movie for awhile. Idk if that's true or not, but if so, you'd think he had it planned it out as a better film, to begin with, regardless of if he was given only 6 months to write the script.

 

[Wildcard]

Similarly in the past meta-human is being used as a catch all term for people with powers, the initial part was just describing her powers.

I'm aware but it's just bad writing to refer to an individual as being from another dimension/world and then right behind it to refer to said individual as a meta-human. Just like it was bad writing/directing to have Viola Davis state Harley is crazier than the Joker and more fearless, only to show her being scared to death of drowning about ten seconds later when Joker purposely crashes the car.

 

[TheRedWraith]

I'm aware but it's just bad writing to refer to an individual as being from another dimension/world and then right behind it to refer to said individual as a meta-human. Just like it was bad writing/directing to have Viola Davis state Harley is crazier than the Joker and more fearless, only to show her being scared to death of drowning about ten seconds later when Joker purposely crashes the car.

Eh I personally don't see that as a problem with the first point as it is just a term for powered person, the second point did bother me when I was watching the movie.