Suicide Squad SPOILER Discussion (BEWARE) - Part 1

I did like that line. I just felt very aaware of Adawale's struggle to speak through all the prosthetics, which really took me out of it. I get that it actually is true to what that character is, ironically. For some reason, I just couldn't make that suspension of disbelief.
 
Rowsdower! Yeah the difference is that the battle in TDW (and I cannot believe that I'm being mad to defend that movie) comes out of nowhere and last for AT MOST a couple of hours (and probably not even that long), plus it's in London (which is of course on the other side of the ocean).

The idea in TWS is that Cap and co were "off the grid" and had only limited resources. So again we're talking maybe a day between them finding out about what HYDRA was really planning, and them needing to do something about it, and they spend a good chunk of that fighting Winter Soldier, being captured and then rescued by Maria Hill, and running away. Plus Thor was most-likely offworld, Hulk went into seclusion again, and IM was basically on vacation with Pepper post-IM3 (and he blew up all of his suits as well).

Plus none of the Marvel heroes at that time could fly (except Thor and he cannot move as fast as say Superman or Flash), or had super-speed, or access to the kind of resources that Batman has (except IM, see my above point on him).

The point being, while it's not perfect even there (I HAVE complained about Hawkeye not even being mentioned in TWS, or Nick Fury not even being mentioned in CW, despite it making all the sense in the world for them to be there given what was set up previously), it's still easier to justify them"Batman and WW are explicitly putting a team together to battle global threats, Batman has access to nearly unlimited resources, Flash is active, and Enchantress has been messing with people in that city for DAYS and is now trying to destroy the world, exactly the kind of threat that the JL is supposed to combat. But they decide not to get involved at all, and leave it in the hands of a team of murderers, psychos, and criminals led by a shady government agency for, reasons."
 
This movie is plagued by puzzling structural decisions in its storytelling, and the bar scene is perhaps the most glaring example of how the rushed pacing and redundant exposition of the first act (did Deadshot really need to be introduced three different times?) winds up crippling critical moments later on.

The bar scene, which should have been a pivotal turning point and one of the movie's most emotionally resonant scenes falls flat, because there wasn't enough time spent developing the relationships between these characters, and the “we’re in this together” camaraderie that emerges rings false because it was never really earned. When the premise of a movie involves throwing a bunch of criminals together against their will, with no reason to trust one another, showing how that trust builds is paramount in establishing motivation and achieving a certain level of plausibility. This never really comes together, unfortunately. The only thing that saves this scene is the chemistry between the cast. This could be said of many moments throughout the movie; their ease and familiarity with each other off-set translates to a solid, natural dynamic that makes up for the substance and coherence the writing and editing lacks.

It’s a shame, because in an ensemble piece like this, finding a cast with the right chemistry and presence is one of the most important elements to get right, and often one of the hardest to achieve. There’s so much potential here that could have been realized with a different script, under a different director and studio.

As for the Joker being underused with tenuous connection to the plot, this could have been remedied by switching his function within the film from simply being a minor supporting role for Harley, to being a larger thorn in the squad's side. He didn't necessarily need to be the main antagonist (though I do think a more down-to-earth villain, as opposed to an otherworldly extinction event, would have better suited the story), just a bigger obstacle in their way.

Consider how it could have augmented the story: The skeletal relationship between Rick Flag and June Moone attempted to provide an additional layer of drama within the main conflict, where Flag finds himself emotionally torn between completing the mission and potentially destroying the person he loves, or throwing the fate of the world to the wind, but due to disjointed pacing preventing any real character development from happening, it misses the mark. This same sort of dynamic could have arguably been achieved to greater effect with Harley and Joker, whose relationship is more solidly established. (cf. Assault on Arkham)

Excellent post.

Literally almost nothing is earned in this movie. That's what disrupts my ability to sit there and enjoy myself - as I'm not a reader of the SS comics simply delighted by seeing them onscreen.
 
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Something I was just thinking about. Regarding the post-credits scene, Bruce Wayne says something to Waller like, "Next time, leave it to us."

One problem there, Brucie. Why the hell didn't you do something THIS time? We know that Bruce is working with Wonder Woman. He hasn't assembled the rest of the JL yet, but he has a lot of resources at his disposal, plus a super-powered teammate who is an amazingly skilled warrior and likely has knowledge of ancient magic. Yet they don't get involved at all.

And it's not like they wouldn't have noticed something was happening. There was enough time between Brochantress' initial attack and when the Squad is assembled for Flag to get a f***ing haircut (seriously, did anyone else find that a little odd)? I believe they said it was three days that thing was turning people of Midway city into zombies and destroying buildings. Yet Batman and Wonder Woman did nothing. And of course, there's also the Flash out there somewhere, and Aquaman, for that matter. If they gave a crap about anything, maybe they'd see if there was something they could do. But instead, the fate of the world lies in the hands of some guys with guns, a psychopath, a couple of low-level superhumans and a dude who throws boomerangs.

And yeah, I know that the Marvel movies suffer a bit from this problem too, but at least in this case, this was GLOBAL threat like Zod and (presumably) Doomsday. They should have said or done something to give a reason as to why the heroes didn't lift a finger. If you want to make the argument that the heroes couldn't get involved because the military had the area cordoned off or whatever, that argument doesn't really work because the Joker was easily able to infiltrate the area and take over a helicopter. If he could do that, then someone like Wonder Woman, Batman or especially the Flash shouldn't have had any trouble getting in there.

Again, it just speaks to why the mission in this movie didn't fit this particular band of antiheroes.

If I had to make a guess, its another result of last minute plot rewrites. I wouldn't be shocked to find out that, in the original version of the script, the villains *weren't* openly rampaging for three days, and the stakes weren't "save the world".
 
^That wouldn't surprise me. This team REALLY doesn't fit that type of plot. And the AOA animated movie was smart enough to realize that even.
 
I'm sorry, but Batman Forever and Batman & Robin are 100% consistent when it comes to style and overall vision. Both are also much, much better from the storytelling point of view than Sucide Squad.

There are different kinds of "bad". For me Schumacher's movies are pure, campy fun rides. Are they stupid? Ridiculous? Of course, but that's exactly what was intended and nothing more. Suicide Squad on the other hand was a movie with a potential to be modern classic, one of the best comic book movies. Do you see a difference? That's what makes this disaster even worse.

What is this criticism about consistency? It is continuously parroted and makes no sense. The movie is psychotic and psychedelic and I love it for that.

B&R, Batman Forever, and the other films I listed are objectively bad. This movie is being raked over the coals despite top notch acting, camera work, and slick, punk editing.

This movie has fallen victim to a political/cultural war against it for gun violence, violence against women, portraying the cold blooded Waller as Hillary Clinton, pushing libertarian issues like criminal justice reform, showing police/prison abuse/brutality, and drafting a narrative of an inept and secretive gov't.

This group of characters include serial killers, a cannibal, a rapist, an assassin, and at least one that qualifies as a terrorist. They are supposed to be flawed characters. They are not politically correct. You don't gentrify the relationship between Joker and Harley (so that Joker doesn't abuse her). People are shocked to find out that when you bring this world to life (the world of Batman, Joker, Harley, Deadshot), it's filled with adult themes and issues.


Style, visual feast, great acting, and deep cutting subtext. This movie was a blast. Movies don't have to be perfect to be fun.
 
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. . .

Lastly Waller is a selfish ***** who made really dumb decisions that everyone else has to pay for. How did she get in a position of power?

. . .

Precisely the same way every single other politician got into a position of power. This isn't an oversight, it's a frightening mirroring of reality.
 
Something I was just thinking about. Regarding the post-credits scene, Bruce Wayne says something to Waller like, "Next time, leave it to us."

One problem there, Brucie. Why the hell didn't you do something THIS time? We know that Bruce is working with Wonder Woman. He hasn't assembled the rest of the JL yet, but he has a lot of resources at his disposal, plus a super-powered teammate who is an amazingly skilled warrior and likely has knowledge of ancient magic. Yet they don't get involved at all.

And it's not like they wouldn't have noticed something was happening. There was enough time between Brochantress' initial attack and when the Squad is assembled for Flag to get a f***ing haircut (seriously, did anyone else find that a little odd)? I believe they said it was three days that thing was turning people of Midway city into zombies and destroying buildings. Yet Batman and Wonder Woman did nothing. And of course, there's also the Flash out there somewhere, and Aquaman, for that matter. If they gave a crap about anything, maybe they'd see if there was something they could do. But instead, the fate of the world lies in the hands of some guys with guns, a psychopath, a couple of low-level superhumans and a dude who throws boomerangs.

And yeah, I know that the Marvel movies suffer a bit from this problem too, but at least in this case, this was GLOBAL threat like Zod and (presumably) Doomsday. They should have said or done something to give a reason as to why the heroes didn't lift a finger. If you want to make the argument that the heroes couldn't get involved because the military had the area cordoned off or whatever, that argument doesn't really work because the Joker was easily able to infiltrate the area and take over a helicopter. If he could do that, then someone like Wonder Woman, Batman or especially the Flash shouldn't have had any trouble getting in there.

Again, it just speaks to why the mission in this movie didn't fit this particular band of antiheroes.

Yeah, the 3 days thing, aside from coming out of nowhere, thanks to the hack job editing they did, it also is just a huge WTF. I know they tried to emphasize that Superman's death made this kind of team necessary, but it's absolute bull **** that this wasn't a world wide event that EVERYONE was aware of. Every country on Earth would be discussing this in some way, and so there's no way Bruce, Diana, Barry, Arthur, etc, would have just sat one their asses for 3 days.

Stuff like that, and the whole complete lack of anything resembling a plan/plot regarding the villain(s?), points out how some of the films bigger problems were there from the start.

That said, it still sounds like it would have been FAR better without the studio's hatchet job in the editing bay.
 
Excellent post.

Literally almost nothing is earned in this movie. That's what disrupts my ability to sit there and enjoy myself - as I'm not a reader of the SS comics and simply delighted by seeing them onscreen.

YES! NOTHING was earned. I kept saying that to myself with almost every moment in the film.
 
Does the film explicitly explain or indicate that Midway City was completely under siege for 3 days, or more than 24 hours?
 
Does the film explicitly explain or indicate that Midway City was completely under siege for 3 days, or more than 24 hours?

I've seen it twice and I don't remember. Must not have been too important.
 
Does the film explicitly explain or indicate that Midway City was completely under siege for 3 days, or more than 24 hours?

It comes out of no where, when Deadshot demands Flag "tell them everything" he'd just learned from the file.

Flag states that the Enchantress' escape, where she resurrected her brother, and the whole attack on Midway city began, happened 3 days ago.

It comes out of nowhere, and is just thrown out in Flag's "confession" about what "really" happened. Which was all dumb, as it was set up like Deadshot discovered some BIG betrayal in the files, but all Flag does is recap everything we've already seen, as if it was a huge revelation to the Squad.

There are several moments that the film tries to play off as a twist, but you can't introduce the entire set up for your "twist" 5 seconds before the actual twist happens. They did this with the "twist" with their rescue as well.
So many things just fall flat, and are NEVER earned.
 
I really enjoyed the film and so did my family which is a plus in my book! Anyway here are my thoughts on the characters:

Harley Quinn: Easily one of my favorite characters in the movie. She was insanely awesome and her jokes had me laughing for days! Her strongest moments were when she was interacting with the other Squad members rather than the Joker imo. Margot nailed the character and I can't wait to see more of Harley and her craziness.

El Diablo: Chato ended up being one of my favorites as well. I loved his tragic back story and his reluctance to fight because of that. He's undoubtedly the Squad's most powerful member and I loved the scene where he went full fire god mode! I need more of Diablo and if the comics are anything to go by he can easily come back to life! Jay nailed this role!

Deadshot: Consider me someone who was skeptical of Will when he was initially cast, but now having seen the movie, Will made a damn good Deadshot! I loved his "bromance" with Rick Flagg and his interaction with his daughter! I would love to see more of Deadshot in the future and imo hes a great asset to the Squad.

Amanda Waller: Viola is Waller!! She knocked this role out of the ballpark. She was very convincing as the head honcho government official. She was tough and had a lot of cool things to do in the movie. I would love to see more of Waller in other DCEU movies going forward! Amanda is a legit boss!!

Rick Flagg: He served his role! I'm a fan of Joel and I think he's a great actor but I didn't really enjoy his romance plot with June/Enchantress. In fact his bromance with Will's Deadshot was more fleshed out and believable plus their banter cracked me up. With that said Joel did a good job portraying the hero solider and the character was very accurate to the comics so that's a huge plus for me.

Captain Boomerang: As someone who wasn't a fan of including this character on the team at all I was pleasantly surprised by how he turned out! His antics were funny and I loved the whole thing with his pink unicorn, pinkie. Lol He didn't really do much but I wouldn't mind him returning and being fleshed out as Jai did a great job.

Killer Croc: Another character who didn't do much beyond have funny one liners. I thought he was cool for the little he did do and the look he had was really awesome. I don't really feel one way or the other about this character but since my brother loved him I feel he should show up again in the DCEU.

Katana: I really love this character in the comics and I was disappointed with how little she was used in the movie. I will say she made a pretty awesome foil to Harley Quinn in that she was the quiet, sane badass to Harleys loud mouth insane badass. I want to see more of Katana in future movies as Karen was good in the little she did.

The Joker: I honestly could have done without the character entirely but I can understand why he was included. His relationship with Harley was pretty cool and the audience seemed to love it. Still he took away from the plot more than he added and if the studio really wanted to use him then they should have restricted his use only to flashbacks with Harley. With that said I hope to see more of him in the DCEU as I'm intrigued by Letos portrayal of him. I also suddenly want a Joker/Harley solo film lol

Enchantress: Even though she was a weak villain her powers were really cool. When June first transformed I was in awe at how scary she looked/acted. Enchantress (As well as Diablo) made me very interested in exploring the magical side of the DCU in future movies as her powers were legit!! She took on the Squad single handedly but I must admit I didn't like how she was taken out nor did I like her motivation for being a villain in the first place. So much wasted potential here honestly

Slipknot: He dies! Not much else can be said lol He had like a minute of screen time and served his purpose.


Overall I'd give the movie an 8/10 because its enjoyable, its fun and the characters are very likeable, thanks to an incredible cast. This is the best DCEU movie so far imo and I look forward to more
 
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It comes out of no where, when Deadshot demands Flag "tell them everything" he'd just learned from the file.

Flag states that the Enchantress' escape, where she resurrected her brother, and the whole attack on Midway city began, happened 3 days ago.

It comes out of nowhere, and is just thrown out in Flag's "confession" about what "really" happened. Which was all dumb, as it was set up like Deadshot discovered some BIG betrayal in the files, but all Flag does is recap everything we've already seen, as if it was a huge revelation to the Squad.

There are several moments that the film tries to play off as a twist, but you can't introduce the entire set up for your "twist" 5 seconds before the actual twist happens. They did this with the "twist" with their rescue as well.
So many things just fall flat, and are NEVER earned.

And it's made worse by Bruce showing up in the mid credits and referencing the event and saying his team, a team formed for the very purpose of stopping such world-ending threats, could have done better. So what kept him and Wonder Woman away from this for three days? At least in the other CBMs there's an element of out of sight out of mind.
 
The Squad and random soldiers didn't know what was happening in the city before they got there, they were told, it was a terrorist attack.
It was probably the same for the rest of the world.
------------------

There is a popular theory that Harley from the movie, lost twins.

There is baby clothes in Joker's circle:
CpYs0jGUEAEhjbY.jpg


And there is Harley's dream.
 
The Squad and random soldiers didn't know what was happening in the city before they got there, they were told, it was a terrorist attack.
It was probably the same for the rest of the world.
------------------

There is a popular theory that Harley from the movie, lost twins.

There is baby clothes in Joker's circle:
CpYs0jGUEAEhjbY.jpg


And there is Harley's dream.

Popular theory? I saw it mentioned once in some disgruntled "critic"'s tweets rambling how they are implying in her vision that Harley lost twins which to me is a very bizarre thing to take away from this movie
 
I saw it on reddit.

And there was also a story, theory like this in the Arkham games.
 
I saw it on reddit.

And there was also a story, theory like this in the Arkham games.

Well Arkham games had negative pregnancy tests, not dead twins... I think someone just got inspired by this weird tweet of that woman and put it on reddit. I mean hell, just this morning I saw the gif of Harley I made yesterday uploaded there :funny:
 
By story like this in Arkham, I mean losing a child while pregnant.
There was also a positive pregnancy test in the game (but probably a fake positive)

If you add, the baby's clothes in Joker's circle in the movie with Harley's dream, it seems like a plausible theory for me.

But maybe it isn't the case.
 
By story like this in Arkham, I mean losing a child while pregnant.
There was also a positive pregnancy test in the game (but probably a fake positive)

If you add, the baby's clothes in Joker's circle in the movie with Harley's dream, it seems like a plausible theory for me.

But maybe it isn't the case.

Or Harley is simply feeding her fantasy and collecting baby clothes just in case. Or it's like Leto said - maybe Joker collects stuff from his victims.
 
seen it this yesterday and well :csad: went in there wanting to see Croc and Joker so yeah I'm bummed

question so nobody noticed the guard handing Harley a phone before they get there "pep talk" ???
 
Questions:

So Flash already has his suit, the suit that Bruce Wayne made for him...?

Does this movie take place around/after JL?

Where was Batman, Wonder Woman, and Flash to save the day during the whole apocalyptic "end of the world" chaos in this movie?
 
Questions:

So Flash already has his suit, the suit that Bruce Wayne made for him...?

Does this movie take place around/after JL?

Where was Batman, Wonder Woman, and Flash to save the day during the whole apocalyptic "end of the world" chaos in this movie?

The suit Flash was wearing was the one he made on his own.
 

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