Superman & Lois General News & Discussion Thread (TAG SPOILERS!)

[SupermanFan]

It's hard to be a double standard when 90% of characters are white. This whole "its ok to make white characters a different race but not ok to make characters of color, white" is never going to be a sensible argument imo.

She suggested that they could race bend one or both of the Kents, you dont need to have actors in mind to suggest that because it doesn't matter. They will audition actors and the casting director is going to fill the role.

Equality is about making things equal not flipping the scales the exact other way.

Her suggestion was a race change for race change sakes.

I get it. You don't like racebending, and you'd prefer that they didn't do it; that's fine, although I disagree. I'd say racebending does solve some representation problems - not all, but some. There's no double standard -- the Standard is whiteness. Racebending helps level things out.

Yeah, I'm not doing "what if"s. A black woman in white male dominated Hollywood doesn't get to her level (or any level, if we wanna go there...) without knowing how to act. According to her, the only criticisms she got were about her scripts/writing, not her presentation.

And if the showrunner can't handle his writing room, maybe he's in the wrong job. -LOL (Which he may be, based on how he handled The Flash, IMO.)

Also, what would she be exaggerating about? I re-read the interviews, and her main complaints seem to be about ignoring suggestions for diverse casting, and stories for the female characters (mentioned in her tweet) -- all of that will be very easy to verify when the show comes out. The only thing that I can see that could be argued is the Helbing quote.

I mean, she's not even arguing that she was wrongly fired -- her contract just wasn't renewed (and she's disappointed/confused by that). That's why I think there isn't going to an "other side of the story" or answer from the producers; the casting is either diverse or it isn't, and it will be self-evident.

I’m not against race or gender bending, but I am with certain characters. My issue as I’ve sat stead is equality is about making things equal. When we say it’s ok one way and not the other that’s a double standard.

There is another side to the story though, no matter what you say there always is.

We know room the cast that there is diversity and you don’t think there won’t be more castings that are?

 

[SupermanFan]

Dean Cain's version of the character grows in my estimation the more I watch Lois and Clark.

Such an underrated version of the Superman mythos. No obnoxious allegories. No Jor-El obsession, just Clark is a good hearted man, who is an idealist, an immigrant from another world with great adoptive parents. Part of him wants to protect the human race because he wants to belong, he wants to be accepted.

He is the Champion of the Oppressed, the symbol for the workingclass, the guy who will be sitting next to you watching the game and eating hot wings.

He also just happens to have God-like power.

Will it take a complete change where he doesn't look white to understand this? If so, then do it.

We need Superman in this moment I believe, .more than Batman.

And if all it takes is change of skin color to end talk of the master race and the white savior then so be it.

We need Superman.

Clark Kent aka Superman is a white character and should remain as so.

There already are black versions of Superman, Calvin Ellis and Val Zod. If we get a black Superman down the line it should be as one of these versions.

 

[NotToday]

I’m not against race or gender bending, but I am ...

LOL! Okay, I'm done.

Anyway, here are a couple more articles with quotes from the former writer, if anyone is interested in her perspective:

Exclusive Interview With Nadria Tucker; Superman & Lois, Sexism & Racism Allegations

'Superman And Lois' Writer Says She Was Dropped From Series After Raising Concerns

 

[Wheels]

Clark Kent aka Superman is a white character and should remain as so.

There already are black versions of Superman, Calvin Ellis and Val Zod. If we get a black Superman down the line it should be as one of these versions.

View attachment 39904 View attachment 39905

I'm less hardcore about this now because I want people to see the character, really see him, for what greatness is there.

If his skin obstructs then maybe it should go.

He is an alien anyway.

I'm sick of certain things that have given a misguided view of Superman and affected his popularity.

Playing the stooge.

Playing the martyr.

Needs to stop.

Maybe Superman also shouldn't look white.

 

[Dr.]

I’ll phrase this carefully (and put it in spoiler tags for added security). According to the pilot teleplay…

Spoiler

For… reasons, it doesn’t seem like the Kents (i.e., Ma and Pa) will have much presence in this series. So “race bending” one or both of them would be somewhat pointless.

 

[SupermanFan]

LOL! Okay, I'm done.

Anyway, here are a couple more articles with quotes from the former writer, if anyone is interested in her perspective:

Exclusive Interview With Nadria Tucker; Superman & Lois, Sexism & Racism Allegations

'Superman And Lois' Writer Says She Was Dropped From Series After Raising Concerns

Way to go cutting my quote at that part to make what I said look bad

 

[Calvin Ellis]

Clark Kent aka Superman is a white character and should remain as so.

There already are black versions of Superman, Calvin Ellis and Val Zod. If we get a black Superman down the line it should be as one of these versions.

View attachment 39904 View attachment 39905

Say my name and I'll appear.

Anyways I have been saying for a while now they should have had a Calvin Ellis or Val Zod ongoing by now. Also I wouldn't mind if they rebooted the DCEU using Calvin Ellis.

 

[SupermanFan]

Say my name and I'll appear.

Anyways I have been saying for a while now they should have had a Calvin Ellis or Val Zod ongoing by now. Also I wouldn't mind if they rebooted the DCEU using Calvin Ellis.

Id love to see it and I would love to see MBJ get to play the part too. Maybe they could even do it as a HBO Max series.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Say my name and I'll appear.

Anyways I have been saying for a while now they should have had a Calvin Ellis or Val Zod ongoing by now. Also I wouldn't mind if they rebooted the DCEU using Calvin Ellis.

E2 produced some great characters and its a shame that DC hasnt really done anything to elevate them.

 

[fan4stic]

I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make? Because it sounds like we agree; if there isn't a story reason for Ma & Pa Kent to be white, then they don't need to be white.

They're white in the comics. That's a reason. And story wise, they can have to pass for Clark's biological parents.

It was pretty noticeable at the time, and it was commented on at the time , hence , we have the knowledge of his background today.

And yes, it can work as a whole. Additionally, Clark in that version was adopted I believe , by the Kents and in Smallville he was adopted from what I remember.

He's also been adopted in other versions including STM I believe. So if the concern is somehow, that a Caucasian child couldn't believably look like the child of mixed race parents, which in itself isn't necessarily true depending on the racial make up of the parents, then they could always go the adoption route of other versions of the myths as opposed to the "Martha gave birth" version.

So there's nothing to say that a multiracial couple couldn't adopt a Caucasian child.

It's not impossible to do if they wanted to. So , either way the issue is a non issue if the concern is about appearances.

Now, whether that's the direction they would want to go is another matter. But if they did , they could do it.

It's not, to me, like that.

It can work in the Smallville version, in theory, that had a reason for why the Kents could legally get away with the adoption angle. It's not needed, but it wouldn't effect the logic of the story. In other versions, they have to pass as biological parents.

They can't adopt Clark as a baby. He's not from an adoption agency. He's an alien that fell, that they found. The most sensible way to pull that off is if they lie and say it's their biological. Smallville had an in story, character reason for how the adoption thing worked. This show may not and I don't see why it would, if the Kents aren't really much involved in the story.

 

[Primal Slayer]

How is giving birth any more of a legitimate story than adoption? Both have to come with some kind of validation that they occured. No one knows that a baby crash landed.

 

[Dr.]

David Ramsey To Direct, Return As John Diggle & Mystery Character In the CW’s Arrowverse – Deadline

Ramsey… will return to direct five episodes… including the new series Superman & Lois, and Supergirl. Additionally, Ramsey will guest star in five episodes across the Arrowverse, returning as fan favorite John Diggle in Superman & Lois, Supergirl, The Flash and Batwoman, along with a mystery role in DC’s Legends of Tomorrow…​

 

[Primal Slayer]

Ouch for the 3 that got their entire show not picked up. He's getting more than they did lol.

Hopefully he show's up as Green Lantern.

 

[SupermanFan]

David Ramsey To Direct, Return As John Diggle & Mystery Character In the CW’s Arrowverse – Deadline

Ramsey… will return to direct five episodes… including the new series Superman & Lois, and Supergirl. Additionally, Ramsey will guest star in five episodes across the Arrowverse, returning as fan favorite John Diggle in Superman & Lois, Supergirl, The Flash and Batwoman, along with a mystery role in DC’s Legends of Tomorrow…​

I’m really excited about this, there was a rumour on 4Chan a while ago amongst a load of other rumours and it seems like a lot of these rumours are coming true. They suggested a while back that John Diggle’s Green Lantern’s origin would be a part of the Superman & Lois/Batwoman crossover.

 

[flickchick85]

Ugh, I really don't care to see Diggle here. He's not John Stewart and retroactively molding him into a John Stewart imitation never sat well with me. Kinda like John Blake/"Robin". Oh well, if it gives us some GL mythos and a connection to the GL series on this show, my annoyance will be...lessened, lol.

 

[Dark Raven]

Ugh, I really don't care to see Diggle here. He's not John Stewart and retroactively molding him into a John Stewart imitation never sat well with me. Kinda like John Blake/"Robin". Oh well, if it gives us some GL mythos and a connection to the GL series on this show, my annoyance will be...lessened, lol.

Clark should deny that he's GL and kick him down a well saying "this is Spartan!"

 

[Primal Slayer]

Superman is going to look TINY next to Diggle lol.

 

[flickchick85]

Eh, he's shorter than Mehcad Brooks. Diggle has never looked that big onscreen to me. I was always shocked when they showed him shirtless because it did not compute, lol.

 

[batdude]

I can live with it. the Arrowverse needs a Green Lantern and we are probably not going to get Jensen Ackles as Hal Jordan,

 

[batdude]

Ouch for the 3 that got their entire show not picked up. He's getting more than they did lol.

Hopefully he show's up as Green Lantern.

Yeah, it's a tossup who screwed worse Brandon Routh or Katie Cassidy. .At least We Will probably get a GL.

 

[herolee10]

 

[Flash525]

Ugh, I really don't care to see Diggle here. He's not John Stewart and retroactively molding him into a John Stewart imitation never sat well with me. Kinda like John Blake/"Robin". Oh well, if it gives us some GL mythos and a connection to the GL series on this show, my annoyance will be...lessened, lol.

Actually, he kinda' is. There was an episode of Arrow that dealt with his stepdad, who was named Roy Stewart. It's a name he could adopt? Is there anything in GL lore about John Stewart's parents?

Even if the links don't ... link up, this wouldn't be the first time character arcs had gone a slightly different way to the comics, and that's good - it's fresh. I'd be quite happy if Diggle became a Lantern (though you'd have to ask the question of where the heck were they when the universe was ending).

 

[fan4stic]

How is giving birth any more of a legitimate story than adoption? Both have to come with some kind of validation that they occured. No one knows that a baby crash landed.

In theory, like I've read the comics have done, the Kents can pass Clark off as having been born during a snowstorm and he be legalized as their child. They can't just say they adopted him. Legalization, as far as I know, is necessary. Smallville had a way that it would look legal.

 

[SupermanFan]

 

[Boy Scout]

Ugh, I really don't care to see Diggle here. He's not John Stewart and retroactively molding him into a John Stewart imitation never sat well with me. Kinda like John Blake/"Robin". Oh well, if it gives us some GL mythos and a connection to the GL series on this show, my annoyance will be...lessened, lol.

I HATE the idea of making Diggle John Stewart. With a burning passion. Back when I was watching Arrow, I thought Diggle was an amazing original character and he should stay that way. In every medium, creators should be looking to expand lore, not shrink it.