Superman Returns Superman Returns:Final Thoughts

[Showtime]

This example of cinema bore the same composition of the foul stenching fecal matter of my canine Rufus after he had a fortnight gorging himself on the putrid contents of my waste receptacal.

Very well done. You have won.

 

[Kangellove13]

I have seen superman returns once.And it bored me to death.It was seriously predictable.I hate that movie.The only reason i watched it was because of lex.the rest was a bunch of BS.

 

[true316]

I have to say, I like the film more and more each time I see it. There are a few reasons that I like the movie so much, here are a few:

1) Singer addressed the most common "problems" people have with Superman.

Have you ever heard anyone complain about Superman? There are two things I hear more than anything:
1)"Superman is too powerful to be interesting"- I like how Superman didn't just get pushed to his limit; he got pushed beyond his limit. He almost died twice in this film. It was the first time one of the big three (Superman, Batman, Spider-man) was so injured in one of their films, that they actually had to be admitted to the hospital! Superman was put in a situation where the odds were firmly stacked against him. When he saved everyone from the threat of New Krypton he suffered the physical consequences. Seeing him in that vulnerable position made him seem even more heroic to me.
2)"Superman life is too perfect (not complex)"- I liked that Singer showed the complexity of Superman's life without beating us over the head with. First of all he allowed us to see that Superman is fallible and is capable of making mistakes. Second, he helped us see that Superman's life isn't easy. Third, through the introduction of his son he added a story element that brings a whole other dimension of complexity. I feel like we are in uncharted territory here and that's pretty exciting.


2)We got to see Superman's character develop.

Superman took a journey in this film (not just to Krypton ). We see him early on struggling with his very human emotions and struggling with the idea of letting Lois go. But whatever selfish desires he has early on are set aside by the movie's end as Superman proves himself to be the selfless hero we all know and love. He saves not just Lois but also Richard and Jason (before he knew he was his son). He was prepared to sacrifice himself to save everyone from the New Krypton threat. At the end Superman showed his selflessness even further. I don't know if everyone caught what Lois was about to say as Superman was floating in front of her. Her mouth actually forms the words "I love." She was unable to get the words out. If ever there was a time to make a move that was it. Superman had just nearly died saving the world from Lex's evil scheme. Lois still clearly loves him and he knows it. But what does he do? He does the right thing and walks away (or in his case flies away t: ).

3) The Shuttle/Plane rescue ROCKED!

Nuff' said! t:


I don't think the movie was perfect but for me the good far outweighed the bad. In this film Superman got to experience arguably the best part of the human experience: becoming a parent. Congratulations Superman, you're a daddy!

 

[X Knight]

yah....superman's a daddy.....WHO WASN'T EVEN AROUND TO TAKE CARE OF HIS KID FOR THE FIRST 5+ YEARS.......

that's generally NOT a good way to start your duties as a father.

plus, Jason is going to have some SERIOUS paternal issues when he realizes the man he calls daddy is NOT his real dad after all. IOW, I'm sure it's going to be scary and confusing for the kid.

So, superman's a daddy, but not in the best circumstances, and not in a way befitting his character.....

 

[true316]

yah....superman's a daddy.....WHO WASN'T EVEN AROUND TO TAKE CARE OF HIS KID FOR THE FIRST 5+ YEARS.......

that's generally NOT a good way to start your duties as a father.

plus, Jason is going to have some SERIOUS paternal issues when he realizes the man he calls daddy is NOT his real dad after all. IOW, I'm sure it's going to be scary and confusing for the kid.

So, superman's a daddy, but not in the best circumstances, and not in a way befitting his character.....

You know I remember feeling bad for Supes because of that when I first saw the movie. I couldn't understand why he was smiling as he flew away at the end. I think it's because Superman is an eternal optimist. He missed those early years of his son's life because he didn't even no about him. But now he does and he is determined to be there for him as best as he can. He will have a unique role in Jason's life because he will be able to provide something for Jason that he himself didn't have the luxury of when he was growing up. Someone who truly understands. Jason is different. But he isn't going to have to face that by himself. Superman will be there for him and I think that's pretty cool.

 

[I Am The Knight]

You know I remember feeling bad for Supes because of that when I first saw the movie. I couldn't understand why he was smiling as he flew away at the end. I think it's because Superman is an eternal optimist. He missed those early years of his son's life because he didn't even no about him. But now he does and he is determined to be there for him as best as he can. He will have a unique role in Jason's life because he will be able to provide something for Jason that he himself didn't have the luxury of when he was growing up. Someone who truly understands. Jason is different. But he isn't going to have to face that by himself. Superman will be there for him and I think that's pretty cool.

Yup, he smiles at the end because he's no longer alone in the world. He has Jason now, and he will be there for him, even if he missed the early parts of his life. It's the father/son theme again, a very recurring one in superhero movies....In case no one has noticed....

 

[X Knight]

yah.....I understand the themes Singer was trying to go for......but it also comes across as Superman being irresponsible........

i guess I just see and feel it differently.

Making the kid Superman's son was the MAIN thing that ruined my enjoyment of the film.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Well, I thought it was just a continuation of the father/son theme, but I will not try to change your mind about it, my friend....

 

[X Knight]

ok...that's cool......fair enough.....

i'm just wondering if Singer has other plans in store for Jason in the sequel. IDK, making him Superman's son seems kind of obvious and cliched......

I also found it interesting that they intentionally left certain parts "vague" regarding Jason. Ok, so we got Jason shoving the piano. That's a rather obvious giveaway.

But, when they were in the pantry, when Jason looked like he was going to use "super strength" to open the door, they made Richard open it right at the same time.

Also, when Lois whispers into Superman's ear at the hospital, we know by then that the kid is Superman's, but why didn't we hear exactly what she said........

idk.....perhaps there's more to Jason than meets the eye.....

 

[FlawlessVictory]

IMO, the father/son theme would have worked better if it wasn't done the way it was done in the film. Superman not being around for the first 5 years of Jason's life, Superman and Lois not being in a stable relationship, Lois not knowing Clark is Superman, Richard believing Jason to be his biological son and Jason believing Richard to be his biological father are all things that take away from my enjoyment of the father/son theme.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

idk.....perhaps there's more to Jason than meets the eye.....

At the San Diego Comic Con in July of 2006, Singer told the audience he thought it would be interesting to explore the fact that Jason is half kryptonian and half human. Sorry, but Jason is Superman's son.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Yeah, but it adds to the conflict. They're not a happy family.

 

[X Knight]

i agree with everything you said, flawlessvictory.

It's not that we are opposed to Superman becoming a father, or that we don't recognize the interesting stories that could arise from that.

It was the WAY they did it that rubbed us the wrong way, and, as flawless said, ruined our enjoyment of the theme. It destroyed the PURITY of the character.....

yes, it adds conflict. But, I think it's unnecesary conflict....conflict that doesn't match the character of superman. It puts Superman in a situation he shouldn't be in....especially as he, above all superheroes, is supposed to be THE MORAL BEACON....y'know......a role model ( BIG BLUE BOYSCOUT ).

Also, because of his upbringing by the loving Kents, I'd think Superman would have a very clear understanding of the IMPORTANCE OF A STABLE, LOVING FAMILY. And, he would also have a very clear understanding of the IMPORTANCE OF PARENTS IN THEIR CHILDREN'S LIVES ( both father and mother ). All of that is undercut by making Superman primarily responsible for this messed up family / father-son affair. Now, Jason' relatively stable family unit will be upheaved by the return of Superman in Lois' life, and the growing realization that Richard is not his real dad.

Yah.....way to go Supes......

it's also misplaced conflict as this is a movie that is being marketed to KIDS.....and, imo, it sends the all the WRONG MESSAGES......and not the RIGHT MESSAGES about Superman......to our children.

There are many ways to bring conflict to Superman. There are many ways to "humanize" him and make him relatable. Making him leave for Krypton for 5+ years, and having him father a bastard child, thus creating a complicated, messed up family affair......ARE NOT the best ( or only ) ways to do that.......

 

[JamalYIgle]

i agree with everything you said, flawlessvictory.

It's not that we are opposed to Superman becoming a father, or that we don't recognize the interesting stories that could arise from that.

It was the WAY they did it that rubbed us the wrong way, and, as flawless said, ruined our enjoyment of the theme. It destroyed the PURITY of the character.....

yes, it adds conflict. But, I think it's unnecesary conflict....conflict that doesn't match the character of superman. It puts Superman in a situation he shouldn't be in....especially as he, above all superheroes, is supposed to be THE MORAL BEACON....y'know......a role model ( BIG BLUE BOYSCOUT ).

Also, because of his upbringing by the loving Kents, I'd think Superman would have a very clear understanding of the IMPORTANCE OF A STABLE, LOVING FAMILY. And, he would also have a very clear understanding of the IMPORTANCE OF PARENTS IN THEIR CHILDREN'S LIVES ( both father and mother ). All of that is undercut by making Superman primarily responsible for this messed up family / father-son affair. Now, Jason' relatively stable family unit will be upheaved by the return of Superman in Lois' life, and the growing realization that Richard is not his real dad.


Yah.....way to go Supes......

it's also misplaced conflict as this is a movie that is being marketed to KIDS.....and, imo, it sends the all the WRONG MESSAGES......and not the RIGHT MESSAGES about Superman......to our children.

There are many ways to bring conflict to Superman. There are many ways to "humanize" him and make him relatable. Making him leave for Krypton for 5+ years, and having him father a bastard child, thus creating a complicated, messed up family affair......ARE NOT the best ( or only ) ways to do that.......

So let me get this straight. Because Jason is Superman's son, mind you a son he didn't realize he had, he's suddenly destryoing a family. Richard raised Jason to this point and continues to raise him. Superman steps back and instead of disrupting the boys life or destroying the family he's a part of , he leaves Jason in the hands of the man who raised him. And yet you see this as irresponsible?
There are several billion step fathers around the world that would argue that point with you.
I think he showed not only the height of maturity and responsibilty in not doing what you suggested.
You're making some false assumption based on nothing even remotely presented in the film.

 

[JamalYIgle]

yah....superman's a daddy.....WHO WASN'T EVEN AROUND TO TAKE CARE OF HIS KID FOR THE FIRST 5+ YEARS.......

that's generally NOT a good way to start your duties as a father.

plus, Jason is going to have some SERIOUS paternal issues when he realizes the man he calls daddy is NOT his real dad after all. IOW, I'm sure it's going to be scary and confusing for the kid.

So, superman's a daddy, but not in the best circumstances, and not in a way befitting his character.....

You can't abandon a child you didn't, and in this case the mother, Didn't know was yours.

 

[Super Kal]

ingorance is no excuse... they could of EASILY have done a DNA test to show who was the father.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

And yet you see this as irresponsible?
There are several billion step fathers around the world that would argue that point with you.
I think he showed not only the height of maturity and responsibilty in not doing what you suggested.
You're making some false assumption based on nothing even remotely presented in the film.

It is irresponsible to have unprotected sex with a girl and not even stick around to see if she has become pregnant.

 

[X Knight]

well....Supes didn't know Lois was pregnant, cuz he left so abruptly. Which means, he didn't BOTHER to see if she had become pregnant, nor did he give Lois a chance to TELL HIM! So, Superman's not knowing was pretty much HIS FAULT.

It was like.....he had sex with Lois....but DIDN'T EVEN CONSIDER THE CONSEQUENCES OR POSSIBILITY OF PREGNANCY! I mean, if I were an alien, and I had sex with an earth woman.....I'd think I would, at the very least, BE MILDLY CURIOUS IF THE GIRL COULD GET PREGNANT WITH MY KID!!

That's irresponsible. And, that's what was wrong with the way they had Supes leave earth. it's like Superman only considered HIS FEELINGS and COMPLETELY DISREGARDED OTHER PEOPLE'S FEELINGS OR CONSEQUENCES!

And, as for supes stepping back and leaving Jason in the hands of Richard.......THE MOVIE DID NOT MAKE THAT CLEAR!! The full meaning of Superman's speech to Jason was rather vague to interpret. Supes gave the speech, then flew away ( he also TRESSPASSED ON ANOTHER MAN'S PROPERTY ). It didn't make clear what Superman's next move was regarding jason, at least the way it was presented in the movie.

assertions that Superman is stepping back from Jason are purely speculation and your own assumptions.

If they wanted to show that, they could have done it more effectively.

For example, they could have had Superman fly by the house and observe Richard, Lois, and Jason happily interacting with each other. As Superman watches them and sees Jason happy with Richard and Lois, we could then hear the Father-Son speech as a voice-over. Then, we could have the family wave goodbye to Superman, Supes smile and do the same, and then fly off.

That would better show that Superman realizes Jason is already in a happy family unit and that he must step back. But, he will always watch over him and make sure he and his family is safe.

THAT would have show Superman taking the responsible route. The way SR showed it left Superman's intention vague and unclear.....

 

[Brainiac 2009]

well....Supes didn't know Lois was pregnant, cuz he left so abruptly. Which means, he didn't BOTHER to see if she had become pregnant, nor did he give Lois a chance to TELL HIM! So, Superman's not knowing was pretty much HIS FAULT.

It was like.....he had sex with Lois....but DIDN'T EVEN CONSIDER THE CONSEQUENCES OR POSSIBILITY OF PREGNANCY! I mean, if I were an alien, and I had sex with an earth woman.....I'd think I would, at the very least, BE MILDLY CURIOUS IF THE GIRL COULD GET PREGNANT WITH MY KID!! ....

I believe they had a relationship for some time and may have had sex more than once. The newspaper dates on the DVD reveal Superman knew Lois 5 years before he left and this was some years after he sent Lex to jail for good (meaning Jason wasnt conceived during the timeframe of Superman II).

I know its always responsible to be careful but its understandable that he wouldnt constantly check if Lois was pregnant everytime they had sex.

 

[X Knight]

but....see.....that's the problem with a vague sequel and a lack of explanations or proper context.

we really don't know when, where, and why important things happened, who knew whom and how......IOW, we really don't have a clear picture of the very universe or world we are expected to watch.......

hence.......everyone is going to arrive at their own conclusions and interpretations.........that just makes it more confusing......

 

[Brainiac 2009]

but....see.....that's the problem with a vague sequel and a lack of explanations or proper context.

we really don't know when, where, and why important things happened, who knew whom and how......IOW, we really don't have a clear picture of the very universe or world we are expected to watch.......

hence.......everyone is going to arrive at their own conclusions and interpretations.........that just makes it more confusing......

If you go by the newspaper dates on the Requiem to Krypton DVD, it makes sense. I believe they mapped all this stuff out when developing the film but purposely didnt want to go into specific details about it in the film.

But it is there, for the hardcore fanboys to find....but I could understand your confusion as well.

 

[X Knight]

ah.....but not everyone's a hardcore fanboy. They're not going to search every nook and cranny for tidbits like we do......lol.

so.....we may understand the finer details and nuances......but the average movie goer would probably be confused as heck.

indeed, if those newspaper headlines or the comic intro were included, then it might be less confusing.....

 

[Brainiac 2009]

ah.....but not everyone's a hardcore fanboy. They're not going to search every nook and cranny for tidbits like we do......lol.

so.....we may understand the finer details and nuances......but the average movie goer would probably be confused as heck......

I dont think the average movie goer would even care about such specific details and times to be honest.

indeed, if those newspaper headlines or the comic intro were included, then it might be less confusing......

It originally was and it was removed last minute. It was nice they threw some shots of it on the dvd special for the fans.

 

[PemLam]

What annoys me is the same people who want crystal clear explanantions of every single possible question or scenario in the movie would be the ones who complain about how boring the movie would be because it's to much of a drama and not enough of a "comic" style action movie. By not explaining everything down to the letter, we are left with the opportunity...and yes, it's an opportunity, to be able to use some imagination as to what we believe happened or could have happened.

To add all the different sequences people are talking about would make the film twice as long as it is and too far over budget to consider. This movie was not marketed for kids, it was marketed for the 18-39 year age group that would spend the money to see it and allow the company to make their money. The after market stuff is what's marketed to kids...the toys, action figures, games, etc.

As for the "irresponsibility" of Superman's actions and the "message it sends", any children that attend the movie would probably have no understanding of the underlying consequences of Superman's actions. If they do, it would give their parent(s) the opportunity to explain it.

The underlying theme is that Superman is capable of making mistakes but in the end, tries to overcome them. Too many people on these threads need to parachute down from that extremely high horse they're sitting on.

 

[JamalYIgle]

It is irresponsible to have unprotected sex with a girl and not even stick around to see if she has become pregnant.

If she doesn't know she's pregnant and your called away because of something important, how is that irresponsible?
Up until SR the major assumption was that kryptonian DNA was incompatible with human DNA. Did they know she could get pregnant?