Superman Returns Superman Returns:Final Thoughts

[Zen Ith]

In SR, Lois loves Superman, but treats Clark like dirt! The only problem, she actually slept with Clark.......she just doesn't know it........kind of creepy and unSupermanly if you ask me.......

Superman had to reverse her memory for her own good. Not being able to share his love with Lois after such an intimate moment was a major sacrifice for him, especially since he has to work with her all day with a secret identity, i'd say that was a very Superman thing to do.

 

[X Knight]

yes, and that's really the main reason why I can't fully embrace or enjoy SR ( as much as I want to ).

For me, it wasn't the so-called lack of action, or lack of a supervillian slugfest, or the "rehash" of the Donner films. It wasn't the suit ( which, aside from the color shades, looked much better on screen ). It wasn't even the basic premise of the movie ( Superman being absent and then coming back to a society that has moved on ).

Quite frankly, those didn't really bother me....Heck, they could have done a remake of the first Superman movie with updated technology and special effects ( like King Kong ) and I would have been a happy camper.

No, what dampened my enjoyment of the film was that it really missed the mark on Superman's CHARACTER.

For me, personally, Superman is not only appealing because of his powers but also because of his morals, his values, his character. he's the BIG BLUE BOYSCOUT......a STRONG MORAL CHARACTER.....he's this last bastion of old-fashioned decency, virtue, and integrity.....he represents the ideals we, as humans, should all strive to attain. IOW, he should be the ULTIMATE ROLE MODEL.

For me, that's what makes him Super, and it is what sets him apart from all the other comic book heroes. While some may think those characteristics make Superman square and boring, I think that's what makes Superman unique amongst heroes......

And, that's where SR failed to deliver. In an attempt to make Superman more "human and relatable," Singer put Superman in situations and a context that seemed to focus on just one aspect of his character ( his isolation and loneliness as an alien). However, imo, it also undercut the other aspects that I discussed above.

IOW, SR's Superman seemed to lack the moral strength and values which I would normally attribute to Superman. Otherwise, he wouldn't have gotten into those situations in the first place.....

 

[JamalYIgle]

If Kryptonian DNA is completely incompatible with Human DNA? ....How did Kon-El come into existence?

He originally wasn't kryptonian because you couldn't clone kryptonian DNA.Kon El was originally a genetic clone of former Project: cadmus head Paul Westlake and DNAlien Dubblex. it wasn't until Teen Titans(the current series) when they changed it that Superboy was a clone of Superman and Lex Luthor.

 

[X-Maniac]

I just rewatched Superman 1 (Expanded edition) and it stands up very well. Marlon Brando is fantastic, his lines are delivered beautifully. What I did notice is how much is borrowed from this movie for Superman Returns and I wish Bryan Singer hadn't done that so much. It does have the effect of making Superman Returns seem derivative in places, and not in a good 'homage' way as it's not really a remake, it's a new story.

I really think Bryan should not take any more ideas from the Donner movies. The comics and animated series should be the inspiration. And a famous Superman comicbook writer should be involved either in the actual writing or in being a 'script doctor'. I'd like to see something based on the comics/cartoons, but also very original in a 'wow' way. Of course, the Krypton exploration sequence was very original in movie terms (though not as exciting as the comicbook Return to Krypton graphic novel) but that got chopped.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Superman had to reverse her memory for her own good. Not being able to share his love with Lois after such an intimate moment was a major sacrifice for him, especially since he has to work with her all day with a secret identity, i'd say that was a very Superman thing to do.

In SR continuity, Superman did not reverse Lois' memory. Otherwise, Lois would have been flipping out wondering, "When did Superman sleep with me?" after Jason tossed the piano.

Singer didn't go by Superman and Lois' relationship in S2:

Singer: Well, I didn't really stick to that. Y'know, the mylar bed. And the cocktails in the Fortress of Solitude. I wouldn't want to bring that up. All I wanted to reference is they had had a previous, there was some sort of previous relations between them.

link: http://www.superherohype.com/news/featuresnews.php?id=4972

 

[JamalYIgle]

oh please that's so much bulltoast... there are so many obvious signs when a girl gets pregnant...

Kak, having been around for my mother's, all of 3 my sisters, my 2 best friends wives pregnancies,there are no obvious signs for the first two months. It varies from woman to woman.My mom never had morning sickness. Some women don't even realize their pregnant until they miss a period. So in some cases you're talking about at least a month.

 

[X Knight]

hmm....good point.....but Supes also has x-ray vision and super hearing. So, he should have been able to detect the fetus in its earliest stages. Plus, he could have used all those subtely, as Clark, while he was working with Lois......

 

[Zen Ith]

No, what dampened my enjoyment of the film was that it really missed the mark on Superman's CHARACTER.

But I don't think it did.

He has morals, as soon as he found out he had a son he rose from what should've been his death bed to tell Lois that he will be there for him. He feels commited to his son despite not knowing he had him for 5 years.

But he also realises the value of a stable home. His own father had to give him up so that he could live. Superman does not claim possession of Jason because Jason has always considered Richard & Lois his parents. Superman wasn't going to take it away from him.

As for being a boyscout, there were numerous moments were Superman acted in his natural benevolent way. "Flying is still the safest way to travel", the smile when he safely puts down Kitty's car, the wave to the camera on the news report, even the smirk at the end.

Not to mention Jason idolised him. Pretending to be flying in the Daily Planet office, drawing pictures of him.. Superman was a role model.

I know some people think illegitimate children are immoral, but that would make my mother immoral for having my sister, which is just not true. It is also not so big a deal in the 21st century.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

hmm....good point.....but Supes also has x-ray vision and super hearing. So, he should have been able to detect the fetus in its earliest stages. Plus, he could have used all those subtely, as Clark, while he was working with Lois......

Yea, but do you really think he would be using his X-ray vision and super hearing on her constantly to check to see if she was pregnant. Especially considering/assuming they have had a sex a quite a few times and nothing had resulted previously and they believe their DNA's are not compatible.

 

[X Knight]

well, frankly, we don't know if they knew of the DNA incompatability....or how many times they slept together ( i got the impression that it was one time )..........all of that is just our speculation..........with the vague sequel, the movie never made clear on any of that.

and, we don't know what Superman will do in regards to Jason. Yah, he snuck into Jason's bedroom, looked at him lovingly, gave his speech, then flew away. But, that really doesn't indicate what exactly Superman will do in the future. At least, to me, it wasn't clear. i guess it could IMPLY that....but, again, that's just speculation.

but....I guess that's what a sequel is for......

 

[Zen Ith]

well, frankly, we don't know what Superman will do in regards to Jason. Yah, he snuck into Jason's bedroom, looked at him lovingly, gave his speech, then flew away. But, that really doesn't indicate what exactly Superman will do in the future. At least, to me, it wasn't clear.

but....I guess that's what a sequel is for......

He said "I'm always around". That means he will always be there.

 

[X Knight]

he also said that on the rooftop scene.....

 

[afan]

Yea, but do you really think he would be using his X-ray vision and super hearing on her constantly to check to see if she was pregnant. Especially considering/assuming they have had a sex a quite a few times and nothing had resulted previously and they believe their DNA's are not compatible.

Yes. he used his xray vision and super-hearing to pry surreptitiously into Lois' private life in SR, establishing his willingness to do so.
Exactly where in SR is their DNA discussed

 

[Zen Ith]

he also said that on the rooftop scene.....

Yeah, so? He didn't avoid Lois after that.

 

[afan]

He said "I'm always around". That means he will always be there.

Unless he decides to leave un-announced again.

 

[Zen Ith]

Unless he decides to leave un-announced again.

He expressed his sorrow to Lois about leaving, he knew he was somewhat in the wrong. So he won't do it again.

Especially since now he knows there is no hope for kryptonian survivors.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

he also said that on the rooftop scene.....

I would have preferred he only said that at the end of the film. There was so much tension on that rooftop between Superman and Lois because Superman was not around and then Superman responds to Lois with, "I'm always around"?

 

[afan]

^ It wasn't the leaving, Superman may need to be off planet again, it's the lack of a farewell both worldly and personally to Lois that was the character flaw.

 

[X Knight]

well, the "I'm always around" phrase kind of lost its effectiveness.....because Superman WASN'T always around......

besides, saying "I'm always around" or "I'm sorry" is easy.....it's Superman's future ACTIONS which I'm interested in.......as they say, actions speak louder than words......

oh, during the rooftop scene, don't you think it was kind of weird that Lois DIDN'T EVEN FOLLOWUP when she asked Superman where he went??

It's like:

Lois: Where'd you go?

Superman: I went to Krypton.

Lois: Well, you're back!

Ummm...helloo.....you're supposed to be a reporter..this is supposed to be an exclusive interview where Superman is finally adressing his departure and return....wouldn't you ask stuff like......What did you see/find?......Why did it take so long?.....Why did you leave so suddenly?........HOW did you get there??????

indeed, I was surprised they cut that exchange so short. if they didn't want to show the Return to Krypton scenes at the beginning, they could have given us flashbacks during the rooftop scene, as Superman is explaining his journey to Lois, and to us......

 

[Zen Ith]

^ It wasn't the leaving, Superman may need to be off planet again, it's the lack of a farewell both worldly and personally to Lois that was the character flaw.

He couldn't face Lois, as he already explained, and the idea of kryptonian survivors would mean he would be selfish to be talked out of going by the woman he loves.

As for not telling the world, it would have been very dangerous to tell everyone. Criminals would have a field day.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Yes. he used his xray vision and super-hearing to pry surreptitiously into Lois private life in SR, establishing his willingness to do so.

That could have been an isolated incident. We don't know either way.

Exactly where in SR is their DNA discussed

No where. I was just trying to figure out a way of explaining why Superman left Lois after they slept together without sticking around to see if she became pregnant. It's a possibility they both assumed their DNA's were not compatible and when he left he believed she was not pregnant/would not be getting pregnant.

 

[Zen Ith]

well, the "I'm always around" phrase kind of lost its effectiveness.....because Superman WASN'T always around......

Look, it's very simple. The fact Superman says it AGAIN when he discovers he has a son makes it all the more genuine. It was the last line in the movie. This wasn't a lie.

besides, saying "I'm always around" or "I'm sorry" is easy.....it's Superman's future ACTIONS which I'm interested in.......as they say, actions speak louder than words......

What do you want them to do? Release a sequel immediately afterwards?

oh, during the rooftop scene, don't you think it was kind of weird that Lois DIDN'T EVEN FOLLOWUP when she asked Superman where he went??

It's like:

Lois: Where'd you go?

Superman: I went to Krypton.

Lois: Well, you're back!

Ummm...helloo.....you're supposed to be a reporter..this is supposed to be an exclusive interview where Superman is finally adressing his departure and return....wouldn't you ask stuff like......What did you see/find?......Why did it take so long?.....Why did you leave so suddenly?........HOW did you get there??????

The conversation gravitated away from being an interview. It was about why Superman left HER. A proper interview would be very impersonal. The interview in S: tM happened the same way, the interview was very brief and it started becoming about them falling in love.

 

[Zen Ith]

No where. I was just trying to figure out a way of explaining why Superman left Lois after they slept together without sticking around to see if she became pregnant. It's a possibility they both assumed their DNA's were not compatible and when he left he believed she was not pregnant/would not be getting pregnant.

The answer is you're not supposed to think about it. This is exactly why Singer brought up vague history, so that fans wouldn't constantly talk about things that weren't shown. But, here we are.

 

[afan]

He couldn't face Lois, as he already explained, and the idea of kryptonian survivors would mean he would be selfish to be talked out of going by the woman he loves.

As for not telling the world, it would have been very dangerous to tell everyone. Criminals would have a field day.

Not being able to tell Lois, for fear that it would stop him from performing a job for Superman, is a character flaw.

As to your second point, were in SR was this rationale for his behavior stated?

 

[Zen Ith]

Not being able to tell Lois, for fear that it would stop him from performing a job for Superman, is a character flaw.

Lois has guided Superman on what he should do many times in the comics before. In fact in one story where he had the chance to visit Krypton in the past he asked Lois first before he decided whether to go.

As to your second point, were in SR was this rationale for his behavior stated?

It's called common sense.