Superman Returns Superman Returns:Final Thoughts

[Matt]

Funny that, considering I always new SR and BB would do similar numbers and they did.

Easy to say after the fact. And if you thought that, you must've been anticipating a bomb as BB numbers really aren't good enough for Superman.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

I remember reading from other threads here,that Warner Brothers was making a sequel to Superman Returns..mainly because WB had invested so much into the Superman franchise.So,could it have been..dispite the average turnout..a movie was done to help cover what the WB put onto the SR in the begenning?Is it possible..that a sequel HAD to be made?

 

[lexlives]

I remember reading from other threads here,that Warner Brothers was making a sequel to Superman Returns..mainly because WB had invested so much into the Superman franchise.So,could it have been..dispite the average turnout..a movie was done to help cover what the WB put onto the SR in the begenning?Is it possible..that a sequel HAD to be made?

It does not have to be made and, IMO, likely will not. But how sad is that - have to make it. That is what the NewYorker article was talking about.

 

[lexlives]

In all honesty, I don't care about the characters Singer created and that is what makes or breaks a movie for me.

I am watching Prison Break Season 1 on DVD because I missed it the first time around. An hour ago, I just finished the episode where Lincoln is about to be executed. He is denied clemency, he is taken to the chair...during his goodbyes to Michael, Veronica, and his son and I knew he wasn't going to die as I have been watching season 2...I knew something would happen, and yet...I had tears in my eyes. Why? Because I gave a damn about the character. That is the biggest problem with SR. Singer spent so much time trying to show how isolated Big Blue was, that he in effect isolated him from the audience.

People keep speaking of amped up action in the next movie and how that will make things better. No ammount of action will help SR2 if I don't care about Superman. I don't even care about Lois as she was an ice queen. The only character I felt connected to was Richard White, and he was menat to be a rival of Clark for godsakes.

Therefore, I gotta say go with the reboot in a few years. Not that it matters now...just saying in a perfect world.

Bingo - the main characters - Clark/Kal and Lois simply failed to engage audiences or make us care for them. I agree and have so posted - if WB really thinks the lack of action was the problem they are in for a big surprise.

 

[Showtime]

In all honesty, I don't care about the characters Singer created and that is what makes or breaks a movie for me.

I am watching Prison Break Season 1 on DVD because I missed it the first time around. An hour ago, I just finished the episode where Lincoln is about to be executed. He is denied clemency, he is taken to the chair...during his goodbyes to Michael, Veronica, and his son and I knew he wasn't going to die as I have been watching season 2...I knew something would happen, and yet...I had tears in my eyes. Why? Because I gave a damn about the character. That is the biggest problem with SR. Singer spent so much time trying to show how isolated Big Blue was, that he in effect isolated him from the audience.

People keep speaking of amped up action in the next movie and how that will make things better. No ammount of action will help SR2 if I don't care about Superman. I don't even care about Lois as she was an ice queen. The only character I felt connected to was Richard White, and he was menat to be a rival of Clark for godsakes.

Therefore, I gotta say go with the reboot in a few years. Not that it matters now...just saying in a perfect world.

I haven't watched one season of Prison Break yet, but you can bet I will be settling down with those DVD's after I finish my run of 24. Prison Break and Lost are next on my list. I am only on season 5 of 24, always one year behind.

It's funny, I have noticed some people like you thought the characters were dead and didn't allow for them to care. Others have said they cared deeply for the characters. It's amazing how many differing opinions there are. I agree Richard White was a really solid character, the human Superman. I know there are many posters who will and have agreed with your reboot thoughts.

 

[lexlives]

Agreed. I think he has the ability. Yet, it seems that Singer realized he jacked up early on and tried for a different tack. He's not a Supeman fan at heart. He loves the lonliness and isolation and that is what he showed.

The problem is, however, that there are no indications "he" (Routh) has the "ability" or that he can deliver an outstanding performance as Clark/Kal. Cause that is what it will take.

When Routh was cast many pointed to his OLTL run and how he was fired from that soap because of consistently poor performances. His delivery among them - and you can see that very weakness in Routh's lines with Martha (EMS) early in the film. Or his poor timing in his bar scenes with Jimmy/Sam. The two actors were not connecting and it was not Huntington who was the problem.

Remember, in the years between his OLTL firing and being cast in SR, Routh did very little work. No opportunity to grow his skills. Why would anyone have expected him to suddenly flower as an actor when cast as Clark/Kal? Singer may have been known for picking a great unknown talent in Jackman but his rep in that regards takes a blow with the casting of Routh.

If Routh "jacked" his performance early on and Singer then adjusted by giving Routh hardly any dialog in SR then what does that say about Singer's casting skills or judgement? An actor either has the skills to pull off such a complex role or not. WB had to have seen this, so I assume Singer and Routh came as a package and, if WB had insisted on a different actor, then Singer, their "white knight", would have walked.

As to any sequel, why would anyone expect to see an improvement in Routh's performance when he has done nothing acting-wise since SR came out?

I know there are Routh supporters out there and he may be a very nice guy, but he has neither the skills nor is he showing the passion to "want it" - as in being out there and pursuing work IMO. Sorry, he can't afford to be turning down roles which he reportedly is. Its why I question his passion for this craft - if you don't have that then you can forget it.

BB, the Spiderman films and the X-Men films were not training grounds for novice actors with just average skills - why Superman should be I simply dont get. But I guess I am just funny that way.

 

[Showtime]

How do you know so much about One Life to Live and are there articles that point to him being fired because of poor performance, or is this another Lexlives production?

 

[lexlives]

How do you know so much about One Life to Live and are there articles that point to him being fired because of poor performance, or is this another Lexlives production?

My girlfriend is a soap addict and has 2 TV's cause she tapes different soaps on at the same time. Go figure.

She is an OLTL fan - as in a huge fan and remembered Routh as Seth. His departure - he was indeed fired - was messy.

But please do not take my word for it. I did not take hers at the time truth be told. I did not want to believe what she told me. In hindsight she was correct however.

Anyway, join www.soapzone.com for 3 bucks - a minimum purchase that gets you a month of posting. They have an OLTL board and ask them about Routh, the circumstances around his firing or whatever. There was some controvery - but that has to do with an e-mail.

By all means do not take my word for it - join and ask away.

 

[Showtime]

My girlfriend is a soap addict and has 2 TV's cause she tapes different soaps on at the same time. Go figure.

She is an OLTL fan - as in a huge fan and remembered Routh as Seth. His departure - he was indeed fired - was messy.

But please do not take my word for it. I did not take hers at the time truth be told. I did not want to believe what she told me. In hindsight she was correct however.

Anyway, join www.soapzone.com for 3 bucks - a minimum purchase that gets you a month of posting. They have an OLTL board and ask them about Routh, the circumstances around his firing or whatever. There was some controvery - but that has to do with an e-mail.

By all means do not take my word for it - join and ask away.

I think I'll pass on the offer but thanks for the info.

I am not sure if posters on a soap boards are any more credible than posters on these baords. I wanted some concrete info, articles, reports, that kind of thing.

Not a big deal either way, just curious.

 

[lexlives]

I think I'll pass on the offer but thanks for the info.

I am not sure if posters on a soap boards are any more credible than posters on these baords. I wanted some concrete info, articles, reports, that kind of thing.

Not a big deal either way, just curious.

Its been a number of years but soap posters are fanatic and I am sure they can point you to articles. Someone there anyway.

Routh was fired and indeed replaced as Seth. Though I am told the new actor was not much better.

But you have eyes and ears - you saw/heard his dialog with Martha (EMS) and Jimmy (SH) - I think you can judge for yourself from those scenes. Don't you find it the least bit odd Singer gave Routh virtually no dilaog?! The one thing he did not copy from S: TM. Reeve had all kinds of dialog as Clark and as Superman.

 

[Showtime]

How can I find that odd, when a number of the early drafts were written before Routh was even cast? You think they had Sueprman delivering big speeches and then cut it once Routh was cast? That's quite a theory.

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

The reason Routh was cast over Welling is because well, Welling was never in the running. Neither was Rosenbaum. How would it make sense at that point in time, consider what season Smallville was in during the production of Superman Returns, to use the Smallville cast for Superman Returns? This would mean the end of Smallville, and why would WB want to weaken one division to possibly strengthen another? They would be getting rid of their 1st or 2nd rated television show to make a movie. Doesn't really make sense, if you think that Returns was a failure business wise, then that would be an extreme business blunder. WB wants the best of both worlds.

You say "I told you so", but you told them what? The movie was the 6th highest grossing movie of 2006 in the US. It sold 25-Million Tickets on its way to over 200million? How was it killed at the box office? Why can't you just be realistic about it. I hate to sound like a broken record, but heck, I have to in order to keep up with your spinning of the facts. The movie performed solidly but didn't live up to WB's expectations. What about the DVD rentals? What about the DVD sales?

You have to seperate your hate for the movie, or for Singer, with the facts. If you hate the movie then hey, that is your choice. I am not blind to some of it's faults either. The problem is you go on and on talking about how you told Dan Harris off, but yet he's making millions, and so far he's signed for a sequel?

Fact! SR had a bigger budget then Batman Begins, and it brought in less then BB in the united states, and BATMAN BEGINS was considered a movie that under performed at the north american boxoffice.
FACT! The movie SR needed to bring in a collective of 550-600 million in order to turn a profit.
The movie world wide bought in 391m, and how much has the dvds sold? 53million worth of dvds?
FACT! The movie flopped at the boxoffice!
FACT! The movie failed to connect with the majority of the fanbase, and it lost people on word of mouth.
FACT! Singer's a hack... Never said that my hatred wasn't mostly aimed at him...

 

[Pickle-El]

Like I said...this forum has hit the .....s.

 

[Matt]

I haven't watched one season of Prison Break yet, but you can bet I will be settling down with those DVD's after I finish my run of 24. Prison Break and Lost are next on my list. I am only on season 5 of 24, always one year behind.

Oh, definitely do...I jumped into Prison Break when it returned with 24 after a quick briefing via Wikipedia, but now that I am watching Season 1, so much more makes sense...and it has so much friggin substance. It even makes the current season 2 episodes I am watching better. Prison Break is absolutely amazing. It is a thrill ride that never lets up. It probably actually surpasses 24 in terms of excitement...because where 24 will have its down time, Prison Break is always tense and moving. Lost is next on my list also, as well as Heroes when that DVD is released.

It's funny, I have noticed some people like you thought the characters were dead and didn't allow for them to care. Others have said they cared deeply for the characters. It's amazing how many differing opinions there are. I agree Richard White was a really solid character, the human Superman. I know there are many posters who will and have agreed with your reboot thoughts.

I have to say...I honestly believe anyone who says Clark or Supes was human in that movie, is fooling themselves or using their pre-movie knowledge (be it the comics, the Donner movies, or Smallville) to fill the gaps...because the movie really doesn't give him practically any substance prior to the speech to his son (Sure, he becomes a peeping tom as a way to show he misses Lois, but that is just creepy and suggests infatuation more than love). And even by the time he speaks to his son, it is too little too late.

 

[Matt]

Like I said...this forum has hit the .....s.

Why are you still here then?

 

[Showtime]

Fact! SR had a bigger budget then Batman Begins, and it brought in less then BB in the united states, and BATMAN BEGINS was considered a movie that under performed at the north american boxoffice.
FACT! The movie SR needed to bring in a collective of 550-600 million in order to turn a profit.
The movie world wide bought in 391m, and how much has the dvds sold? 53million worth of dvds?
FACT! The movie flopped at the boxoffice!
FACT! The movie failed to connect with the majority of the fanbase, and it lost people on word of mouth.
FACT! Singer's a hack... Never said that my hatred wasn't mostly aimed at him...

The movie has turned a profit, in business you have to take all profit trails into account.

Again, the movie didn't flop at the box office, this is not a fact.

Again, you can't prove it didn't connect with a majority of the fan base? Did you do a poll of every fan in the U.S.?

Singer being a hack is an opinion. Just because you write FACTS in caps doesn't mean they are facts.

 

[dude stannis]

Easy to say after the fact. And if you thought that, you must've been anticipating a bomb as BB numbers really aren't good enough for Superman.

1: I had no idea what the budget was, I gave up following this films production while Burton was still on board.

2: The advertising on various points was exactly the same for both films. The teaser posters where identical (Batman/Superman does a pose in front of a monochromous (That's a word, right?) background (Amber for Batman, greeny blue for Superman). Both films had trailers that gave nothing away aside from Batman was beggining and Superman was returning.

3: I had no idea, before SR how much money studios made from world wide grosses and what average this and that was, truth is I never cared and I've had enough of it.

 

[Showtime]

Oh, definitely do...I jumped into Prison Break when it returned with 24 after a quick briefing via Wikipedia, but now that I am watching Season 1, so much more makes sense...and it has so much friggin substance. It even makes the current season 2 episodes I am watching better. Prison Break is absolutely amazing. It is a thrill ride that never lets up. It probably actually surpasses 24 in terms of excitement...because where 24 will have its down time, Prison Break is always tense and moving. Lost is next on my list also, as well as Heroes when that DVD is released.



I have to say...I honestly believe anyone who says Clark or Supes was human in that movie, is fooling themselves or using their pre-movie knowledge (be it the comics, the Donner movies, or Smallville) to fill the gaps...because the movie really doesn't give him practically any substance prior to the speech to his son (Sure, he becomes a peeping tom as a way to show he misses Lois, but that is just creepy and suggests infatuation more than love). And even by the time he speaks to his son, it is too little too late.

Now I am even more excited about checking out Prison Break, I have heard only good things about it. I am now really into Heroes, it is coming along nicely, apparently they have all story arcs mapped out over 5 seasons. It should be interesting.

I think alot of the emotion was sucked out due to choppy editing, the scenes with Clark and Ma Kent on the farm. The scene were Superman finds out Lex is responsible for his fruitless journey to Krypton which I don't believe even made it off paper. I think these scenes would have added a little more depth to the characters. Injected some more emotion.

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

Now I am even more excited about checking out Prison Break, I have heard only good things about it. I am now really into Heroes, it is coming along nicely, apparently they have all story arcs mapped out over 5 seasons. It should be interesting.

I think alot of the emotion was sucked out due to choppy editing, the scenes with Clark and Ma Kent on the farm. The scene were Superman finds out Lex is responsible for his fruitless journey to Krypton which I don't believe even made it off paper. I think these scenes would have added a little more depth to the characters. Injected some more emotion.

lol dude there was so many attempts at emotional scenes in SR that its actually pretty funny.
They tried so hard, and failed every time.. Remember the movie being very EMO is one of the reasons people didnt flock out to see it.

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

Like I said...this forum has hit the .....s.

Welcome back to the HYPE! t:

 

[Pickle-El]

Why are you still here then?

Mostly out of habit at this point. This place has lost most interesting forms of life. It's the same 6 guys proclaiming Singer is hack, yadda, yadda.

In other news, the sun WILL rise tomorrow morning. More on this breaking story as it develops.

 

[Showtime]

lol dude there was so many attempts at emotional scenes in SR that its actually pretty funny.
They tried so hard, and failed every time.. Remember the movie being very EMO is one of the reasons people didnt flock out to see it.

Have you polled the people that didn't see SR, do you know this is one of the reasons they didn't see it? Or are you projecting?

 

[antonydelfini]

FINAL THOUGHTS

(+): A well directed and well made movie, has respect for the character of Superman, you can feel the passion in every scene of the film, best CGI in a comic book film yet.
(-): Based the film too much on the previous reeve films, Not enough stuff to satisfy the hardcore comic supes fans, poor villain plot, lack of pumped-up action.

 

[Matt]

Mostly out of habit at this point. This place has lost most interesting forms of life. It's the same 6 guys proclaiming Singer is hack, yadda, yadda.

In other news, the sun WILL rise tomorrow morning. More on this breaking story as it develops.

And it is still you *****ing about it just like a year ago while offering nothing valid to the conversation.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

And it is still you *****ing about it just like a year ago while offering nothing valid to the conversation.

Other people do it so why just target him? He can say what he wants as can we all. At least Pickle is a good supporter of the movie who doesnt make uesless threads.