Superman SPOILER Review Thread (NO TAGS NECESSARY)

[dhandler01]

The movie has enough jokes and in the 4 times I've seen it no one laughed at it once. Its just a terrible cut. Needed time to breathe and build. It needed to really strongly reel in the jokes big time. Have it sparsely spread through the film. The scene of Suoerman and Lois talking needed that eyeball that lantern was fighting completely cut. It offered nothing and broke immersion of the scene. You have to let your serious moments breathe. This sort of thing is what's holding the film back from greatness. Everytime I watched the film, I felt full focus and enjoyment in the small serious moments with pa kent, with Lois, Gary(#4) etc. Those are the scenes that lend tangibility and verisimilitude to your story. Keep the jokes for small bit here and there.

I laughed hard both times that edit happened but I get what you are saying

 

[dhandler01]

Circling back to this, because I think it's important to interrogate not only this statement, but what it says about the Kents, the Els, and the movie as a whole.

What is Clark's most defining feature in this movie? Now the words say kindness. They try to jab that into your skull. But it's not. It's his action. That he engages. He doesn't sit on the sidelines. Where does he get this from in the movie? The Els. He tells us that what motivates him to do what he does is the message he believed his parents sent with him.

We now know that the cake is a lie. So what are we left with? The Kents. Who apparently disengage, stay offline, and just hang with their farm animals. They don't sound like they show up for Pride. No civil rights marches for them. 50/50 chance they don't even vote blue. How would they even know to do so? They're disengaged. Busy living the slow, innocent life while everything is going to hell. I don't even think they call their son once he's in crisis.

So how exactly are the Kents the "good parents" here? They didn't teach their son to step up. To stand up to injustice. They don't do it themselves.

People love to clown on MoS, on Smallville. But they at least get the basic dynamics for both the Kents and the House of El.

As someone from the Midwest (a Blue State but still) I find this rather naive and quite a bit insulting. I know plenty (and i do mean plenty) of people raised by conservative (and rather detached) parents who have grown up to be as Progressive and Left as me. Some did it on their own, most did it by seeing the world outside of their bubble. Going to college, traveling or just being exposed to other people changes a worldview...and who better than Superman to be able to see all of that as he himself is different.

And while you may be right that the Kents wouldn't be those types of people PA Kent says it best "it is not a parents job to tell their kids who to be". (Paraphrased) They raised an alien as their son I doubt they have much hate in their heart for outsiders.

FWIW until rather recently people like the Kents wouldn't have cared to hate the Others. Sure they might not hang a Pride flag but they wouldn't deny their right to live either. (Unless religion was involved) As my governor said "mind your own dawned business" was the rural philosophy. It wasn't until the lead up to 2016 that things started to go bad and that is because scapegoating works. (I'm a Jew so I have some perspective here...I'm also Pro Palestine so I get it from both ends)

All this to say (and please understand I mean no offense whatsoever) I think you underestimate people.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I finally saw it, and I’d give it a strong 7 out of 10.

I feel as if with another rewrite or two, and more focus on Clark, more focus on his relationships with the characters around him, it could’ve been a stronger movie. I’m actually very surprised that Gunn reined himself and his humor in, but at the same time didn’t really have any meat to his story.

But the real star of this movie is Corenswet and Rachel B’s chemistry. Even with a questionable script, you don’t care about the words they say to each other, you feel them when they look into each other’s eyes and when they kiss. It was really beautiful.

But IMO this movie is a hodgepodge of things. Some things that worked, some things that fell flat, but it could’ve been much better.

 

[BobJM]

Has it ever been confirmed whether the rumors about this movie originally being structured as a series of vignettes, labeled by day-of-the-week, are true? It would definitely track, considering how some of the transitions feel (and may speak to some the pacing/editing concerns some have voiced):

Monday - Daily Planet globe establishing shot
Tuesday - Dog is barking at Kaiju about to crush it
Wednesday - Superman turns himself in
Thursday - Hall of Justice establishing shot
Friday - Clark wakes up in his childhood room

 

[BobJM]

Circling back to this, because I think it's important to interrogate not only this statement, but what it says about the Kents, the Els, and the movie as a whole.

What is Clark's most defining feature in this movie? Now the words say kindness. They try to jab that into your skull. But it's not. It's his action. That he engages. He doesn't sit on the sidelines. Where does he get this from in the movie? The Els. He tells us that what motivates him to do what he does is the message he believed his parents sent with him.

We now know that the cake is a lie. So what are we left with? The Kents. Who apparently disengage, stay offline, and just hang with their farm animals. They don't sound like they show up for Pride. No civil rights marches for them. 50/50 chance they don't even vote blue. How would they even know to do so? They're disengaged. Busy living the slow, innocent life while everything is going to hell. I don't even think they call their son once he's in crisis.

So how exactly are the Kents the "good parents" here? They didn't teach their son to step up. To stand up to injustice. They don't do it themselves.

People love to clown on MoS, on Smallville. But they at least get the basic dynamics for both the Kents and the House of El.

I think the gist of the Kents’ goodness, or how we should perceive them in the context of this film, is through Clark’s actions & morality as Superman. The Els told him they searched for a place where he can do the most good. The Kents showed him what good is.

Even in Jonathan’s talk with Clark, he says how proud of him he is—specifically, of his choices & actions (and the man his son has become). So all this kindness & compassion Clark has either displayed thus far in the film (saving citizens, saving a squirrel, his handling of the kaiju, stopping an invasion despite political optics, searching for Krypto, etc.) or been alluded to by reliable sources (Lois tell us he sees everyone as beautiful) is co-signed by Jonathan in that moment.

Whereas Kevin Costner told his Clark to hide who he is, instilling fear of revealing himself to the world & the ramifications that would bring. And, later in his career (in case the argument would be that Jonathan was speaking to his young son in that moment), Martha encouraged Clark to walk away from it all, saying he doesn’t owe the world anything (in BVS). In this film, even after turning himself in to the US army (and subsequently breaking out), Jonathan doesn’t show fear or anger towards humanity on his son’s behalf—he’s proud of his son, reaffirming the choices Superman has made (which we’ve seen to be compassionate).

We don’t see the Kents themselves being overly good onscreen, sure, but they raised Clark. And since we don’t see him rejecting them or denouncing them at any point (or moodily hitch-hiking the country as some drifter), we can assume some of that empathy & self-assuredness came from his upbringing & family. I will concede, however, that for the amount of TV reaction shots we got to the Els’ message on the news, it would have been nice to see Ma & Pa watching along with the rest of the country. And a phonecall (only to show Clark’s cell-phone, unanswered, at his desk or his apartment) would have been nice too. The perils of a short runtime, but we’re talking 30 seconds here.

And I don’t get the sense they’re offline, either. They’ve got cell phones; they had the news on the TV. They even tried burritos at that restaurant with their friends!

 

[Mach2Infinity]

9/10 for me. Apologies, incoming essay..

I had seen a bunch of 'out of theatre' reactions as well as online reviews which either raved about the film or said it was terrible. Even the ones that praised it, many did caveat with a 'but..'. Given my issue with James Gunn's sensibilities where he can insert too much humour, often fairly crass/vulgar I went in with tempered expections.

However, when I came out of the cinema, I loved the film and was thoroughly engaged from the first frame to the last. I was also feeling pretty emotional as a bunch of things in the film resonated with me: the sometimes haunting and moving score, Superman's kindness, warmth and compassion for all life, the electric chemistry between Lois and Clark/Superman with their love for one another and a very personal connection to the film.

Last year around the time they were filming, I had gone through an incredible painful and low point in my life. Thanks to two amazing best friends, time and healing, I managed to pull through. On a poetic note, to think whilst I was going through all that, they were filming the very scenes that I would later enjoy and find incredibly emotional deeply resonated with me and was incredibly meaningful. One of those best friends is here on SHH but out of respect for them I won't tag them. But they know who they are and to echo from another great 'Superman' film... "thank you is not enough for what you did".

Not to go off on a massive tangent, but it needed to be said.

Back to the film... there's so much to talk about. I guess I should start with the highlights. The score was a big surprise. I was expecting just a retread of the John Williams score. But whilst they use it, they mostly use a variation of it which was haunting but also rousing. The chemistry between David Corenswet and Rachel Brosnihan was off the charts. You just buy them unquestionably as a couple who fall in love. Nicholas Hoult as Lex Luthor is now my favourite iteration of the character, both psychotic and threatening, just an utterly contemptible figure (in the best way possible!). I thought the humour was mostly good and well-balanced, only a few gags that didn't land surprisingly. The effects were really well done and I was in an IMAX screen, don't personally understand how they were as bad or worse than the Flash supposedly (which was worse despite some occasional nice effects). I thought the cinematography was really good with some epic shots and the flying scenes were great. The scene between Jonathan Kent and Clark was incredibly moving, moved me as it deeply resonated. I really liked the Engineer and despite being a little underdeveloped, it made me eager to see an Authority film now. Ultraman whilst also underdeveloped was a powerful villain too. Mr. Terrific (especially) and Metamorpho were stand-outs for me. Jimmy Olsen.. what a guy lol. Loved what they did with him. I thought the casting for all the characters was spot-on. I really enjoyed the action and whilst it does move at quite a pace, I didn't find it off-putting. I have to say James Gunn's OTT humour was mostly pared back surprisingly. His best since Guardians 1.

The lowlights.. again some of it is Gunn's humour. Namely the running gag with Jimmy and Eve Teschmacher I found was unnecessarily cruel at times but people did laugh, maybe I'm too sensitive. I also thought the depiction of Ma and Pa Kent just verged on caricature at times and played a bit too much on the country bumpkin or hick stereotype. I think some characters needed more scenes and it probably was a little overstuffed so some character development suffered as a result. I also know there is an even better and longer cut of the film. It's clear that Gunn cut a fair bit after some test screenings.

So ultimately, I highly recommend the film. It's bright, it's colourful, feels like an actual comic book film that's unashamed of itself finally. Wonderful performances, Corenswet is Superman and Brosnihan's Lois Lane for me. Its central themes about kindness and hope couldn't have come at a better time. It certainly did for me. It left me wanting a Superman sequel and to see where the DCU goes next. Bring on Supergirl!

 

[Mach2Infinity]

And a phonecall (only to show Clark’s cell-phone, unanswered, at his desk or his apartment) would have been nice too. The perils of a short runtime, but we’re talking 30 seconds here.

And I don’t get the sense they’re offline, either. They’ve got cell phones; they had the news on the TV. They even tried burritos at that restaurant with their friends!

I remember seeing he had 30 missed calls from Martha during the scene he's at his flat/apartment with Lois?

 

[Deck Rickard]

I do wonder if Gunn will ultimately release an extended cut. I hope so. He doesn’t strike me as a Ridley Scott type who always has a four-hour director’s cut of his films. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s more of a Peter Jackson type who wouldn’t mind releasing a special extended edition. I feel like a 2.5 - 3-hour cut of this would set streaming records. I don’t necessarily need it, but I would love to see a version with more Daily Planet stuff, some backstory on the Engineer and Metamorpho, more Hawkgirl, more time with the Kents, and more Krypto (because you can never get enough Krypto).

 

[BobJM]

I remember seeing he had 30 missed calls from Martha during the scene he's at his flat/apartment with Lois?

Oh, yup. You’re right. I take that back; lol Gunn did exactly what I would have wanted

 

[Mach2Infinity]

Oh, yup. You’re right. I take that back; lol Gunn did exactly what I would have wanted

No probs. I saw it at an IMAX screen so that may have helped lol!

 

[Chris B]

8/10 feels right to me. Comparing it to some of Gunn's other cbm output, I think I'd still prefer the first and third Guardians movies. But Gunn managed to lay a strong foundation and I'm excited to see where this Superman and the DCU as a whole will go from here.

 

[Herolee10]

For those of you that have seen the animated film "The Prince of Egypt", did anyone else find the intro text soundtrack similar to this film as well?

 

[Deck Rickard]

Regarding the intro text… I’m guessing he used the number “3” just because Superman is about 30 and so it provided a cool, almost poetic way of running through previous significant developments in the story. But I was left wondering whether that was also some Easter egg. Does the number “3” have some significance for Superman?

 

[Black Narcissus]

How were the other female characters not (Lois) handled/did they have anything else to do? Sara Sampaiao was always a crush of mines. Lawd.

 

[BobJM]

Regarding the intro text… I’m guessing he used the number “3” just because Superman is about 30 and so it provided a cool, almost poetic way of running through previous significant developments in the story. But I was left wondering whether that was also some Easter egg. Does the number “3” have some significance for Superman?

 

[BobJM]

How were the other female characters not (Lois) handled/did they have anything else to do? Sara Sampaiao was always a crush of mines. Lawd.

Engineer and Eve are the next biggest female leads in this film, but I think they are both (in their own ways) decidedly one-note. Engineer had some cool action moments but none of the standout sequences IMO.

But I could see Engineer going the way of Nebula, and Eve developing more layered persona should they return in a sequel (or other projects).

 

[flickchick85]

Has it ever been confirmed whether the rumors about this movie originally being structured as a series of vignettes, labeled by day-of-the-week, are true? It would definitely track, considering how some of the transitions feel (and may speak to some the pacing/editing concerns some have voiced):

Monday - Daily Planet globe establishing shot
Tuesday - Dog is barking at Kaiju about to crush it
Wednesday - Superman turns himself in
Thursday - Hall of Justice establishing shot
Friday - Clark wakes up in his childhood room

It was ViewerAnon who said it so yes it was true and yes it’s very obvious where the title cards were. I’m still annoyed the test audiences convinced them to remove that.

 

[Herolee10]

It was ViewerAnon who said it so yes it was true and yes it’s very obvious where the title cards were. I’m still annoyed the test audiences convinced them to remove that.

Agreed. The two scenes that come to my mind are the transitions between Lex's goons releasing the baby Kaiju into Metropolis before it cuts to the small dog and where Superman says his goodbye to Lois before he gets smashed into the ground by Ultraman the following day.

 

[flickchick85]

Also, just got back from viewing #4. Favorite under appreciated moment on this watch:

At the end when they’re in Lex’s command center, and they’re watching Superman be vindicated on the news in real-time, David has this growing satisfied smile until his eyes fall to Lex, and then all of a sudden his face is flooded with empathy, like he genuinely feels bad that this guy is having the absolute worst day of his life.

He’s got so many fantastic nuances in this thing. Absolutely pitch perfect Superman imo.

 

[BobJM]

It was ViewerAnon who said it so yes it was true and yes it’s very obvious where the title cards were. I’m still annoyed the test audiences convinced them to remove that.

Agreed. The two scenes that come to my mind are the transitions between Lex's goons releasing the baby Kaiju into Metropolis before it cuts to the small dog and where Superman says his goodbye to Lois before he gets smashed into the ground by Ultraman the following day.

I definitely would have liked the title cards. I just rewatched The Suicide Squad and forgot Gunn played with that format there.

Also, just got back from viewing #4. Favorite under appreciated moment on this watch:

At the end when they’re in Lex’s command center, and they’re watching Superman be vindicated on the news in real-time, David has this growing satisfied smile until his eyes fall to Lex, and then all of a sudden his face is flooded with empathy, like he genuinely feels bad that this guy is having the absolute worst day of his life.

He’s got so many fantastic nuances in this thing. Absolutely pitch perfect Superman imo.

One of my favorite moments! He’s so good. And that costume looks perfect.

 

[dhandler01]

#ReleasetheVignetteCut

 

[dhandler01]

Also, just got back from viewing #4. Favorite under appreciated moment on this watch:

At the end when they’re in Lex’s command center, and they’re watching Superman be vindicated on the news in real-time, David has this growing satisfied smile until his eyes fall to Lex, and then all of a sudden his face is flooded with empathy, like he genuinely feels bad that this guy is having the absolute worst day of his life.

He’s got so many fantastic nuances in this thing. Absolutely pitch perfect Superman imo.

Yeah...his interactions with Lex top to bottom were great. Even hopeful in that he hopes realizes his true worth to humanity.

 

[TheGDBatman]

Circling back to this, because I think it's important to interrogate not only this statement, but what it says about the Kents, the Els, and the movie as a whole.

What is Clark's most defining feature in this movie? Now the words say kindness. They try to jab that into your skull. But it's not. It's his action. That he engages. He doesn't sit on the sidelines. Where does he get this from in the movie? The Els. He tells us that what motivates him to do what he does is the message he believed his parents sent with him.

We now know that the cake is a lie. So what are we left with? The Kents. Who apparently disengage, stay offline, and just hang with their farm animals. They don't sound like they show up for Pride. No civil rights marches for them. 50/50 chance they don't even vote blue. How would they even know to do so? They're disengaged. Busy living the slow, innocent life while everything is going to hell. I don't even think they call their son once he's in crisis.

So how exactly are the Kents the "good parents" here? They didn't teach their son to step up. To stand up to injustice. They don't do it themselves.

People love to clown on MoS, on Smallville. But they at least get the basic dynamics for both the Kents and the House of El.

Sorry, and how do you know this? Maybe it’s a pitfall of this not being an origin story, but you’re making a lot of assumptions about them and how they raised Clark.

They clearly follow the news and have phones. Do you need to see Pa Kent liking a post about a DC version of Kamala Harris attending a pride parade before you view them as something other than hillbillies?

And I think you’ve missed the mark. His defining feature is his humanity. Which, given the caring and supportive nature of the Kents in the film, undoubtedly influenced him to some degree.

 

[dhandler01]

BTW another underrated thing...for all the criticism of Jimmy and Eve's relationship if you notice at the end when she hugs him and says "now we can be together" he at first looks sad...and then he smiles. Her helping changed his perception of her.

 

[titansupes]

Something important I haven't seen mentioned anywhere-- Superman got legit kicked in the nuts in this movie.