Superman SPOILER Review Thread (NO TAGS NECESSARY)

[dhandler01]

I'd like to highlight the moment/scene when Superman takes flight after being healed by the robots in the Fortress. One could draw a comparison between this scene and the one in MoS where Clark flies for the first time but they couldn't be more different. In MoS we're just supposed to marvel at the imagery and the man but here there's emotion and meaning behind it...7 minutes into the film. He's just gotten his ass beat but he's going back out there, still determined and optimistic. This film managed to do more for Superman in 7 minutes than Man of Steel in 2.5 hours.

I am glad you mentioned this because I thought the same thing when watching the film. (and remember I like MOS) This film, and that scene, show the true joy at being Superman and that he is not going to let being at "85%" stop him from getting back into the fight and protecting the people. He values that above everything.

Someone said it best the other day, if this Superman died people would be pained by it. This is the Superman from that comic...a man willing to fight so hard he literally falls dead because he wants to protect lives and his friends.

 

[dhandler01]

I ain't no MoS defender, and I've always felt that scene doesn't hit the way it's supposed to, HOWEVER-- it's definitely meant to be representative of him finally unshackling himself from his lifelong burden of having to hide his true self and his powers etc. Execution was meh, but that's there's a clear narrative for that scene beyond the imagery.

Regarding this movie (what are we abbreviating it to? S'25?), I adored him for immediately taking off to go kick some ass and save some lives. "No can do, 4. Gotta get back to the fray", both the delivery and the friggin' walk had such and old school movie hero swagger.

But he doesn't really do that after that scene. He doesn't do that until after Lois figures out who he is and talks to him. Remember she ends up at his dads grave and he is still not out to the world yet and still doesn't trust humanity. Then Zod shows up, Clark goes to church and he goes public.

The scene where he flies was cute and it was great how he smiled for maybe the first time in the film...but it is ruined by the fact that it changed nothing about him. Even when he turns himself in and he is talking to Lois, he doesn't seem to trust the people or really believe this will work to make them not hate him for being an alien.

To me it would have worked better if, once he realizes who he is and the powers he has, he remembers that the only time he really felt a part of the world was when he was helping people. Then when he flies he gets in a few saves or fixes a few things and his purpose becomes clear. He stays in the shadows, but then when Lois finds him he feels inspired to be more than just a hero in the background.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

I'm sure people have brought this up already but I was genuinely surprised they had that twist about Jor-El and Lara (and perhaps all Kryptonians) having nefarious intentions. I always felt like they wanted to go there with Thomas Wayne in The Batman but didn't dare so I really didn't expect them to do it with Superman. That revelation is something that they probably should have kept for a sequel to give it more weight. As it is, it's somewhat brushed over (although the very final scene ties it all together and also provides an explanation for why the movie was originally titled Superman: Legacy).

 

[dhandler01]

I'm sure people have brought this up already but I was genuinely surprised they had that twist about Jor-El and Lara (and perhaps all Kryptonians) having nefarious intentions. I always felt like they wanted to go there with Thomas Wayne in The Batman but didn't dare so I really didn't expect them to do it with Superman. That revelation is something that they probably should have kept for a sequel to give it more weight. As it is, it's somewhat brushed over (although the very final scene ties it all together and also provides an explanation for why the movie was originally titled Superman: Legacy).

That was spoiled in the leaks so a lot of us knew about it already...though it was handled better than the leaks made it sound. (same with the monkeys) Probably why it isn't discussed as much yet.

I kind of agree that could have been saved for a sequel but then the only way to get the people to hate Superman is for Ultraman to be framing him and I would have hated that more than I hate the Evil Supes trope. I think it would be harder to justify the world turning on Superman after he saved the people so often and is so open about who he is. (plus no one would trust Lex) I mean if he was going to conquer us a good time to do it would be right after he saved us and there was cult like devotion (as Lex says...grooming) but he never did that.

I also dont think we are done with that video...

I also kind of think Gunn put that in there and dealt with it now because he wanted the "World doesn't trust Superman" stuff out of the way. After Snyder and his "when my epic is done Superman will be the Superman we all love" nonsense he just wanted that Superman and that world here now. Just a guess though

 

[Andreth]

One thing I keep thinking about is the reveal of Jor-El and Lara’s intentions, sending baby Kal-El to Earth not just to survive, but to eventually lead and even “populate” the planet with his descendants.

At first glance, it does sound a bit cold, maybe even a little unsettling. But I don’t necessarily read it as a villainous plan. I think it comes more from a place of desperation, of a dying world clinging to the idea that something of their legacy can live on. Maybe to them, Earth was the only viable place where that could happen, and Kal was their one and only vessel for that future.

It’s not about conquest or domination, but preservation, not just of Kryptonian biology, but of culture, ideals, history. They weren’t trying to create a ruler to control Earth, but someone who could become part of it, shape it gently, and pass on what little they could save from their own world.

Yes, it’s a bit emotionally detached, especially from a human perspective, but that doesn’t make it evil. It just shows how differently Kryptonians might think when their entire civilization is facing extinction.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

Was anyone else thinking about that infamous Superman Lives story told by Kevin Smith after walking out of the theater? If you recall then the producer Jon Peters wanted Brainiac to fight something in the Fortress of Solitude and suggested that Superman could have guards but Kevin Smith thought it was a stupid idea and the compromise was polar bears. But here we are, decades later and we have a scene of Lex's minions fighting the Superman robots haha.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

One thing I keep thinking about is the reveal of Jor-El and Lara’s intentions, sending baby Kal-El to Earth not just to survive, but to eventually lead and even “populate” the planet with his descendants.

At first glance, it does sound a bit cold, maybe even a little unsettling. But I don’t necessarily read it as a villainous plan. I think it comes more from a place of desperation, of a dying world clinging to the idea that something of their legacy can live on. Maybe to them, Earth was the only viable place where that could happen, and Kal was their one and only vessel for that future.

It’s not about conquest or domination, but preservation, not just of Kryptonian biology, but of culture, ideals, history. They weren’t trying to create a ruler to control Earth, but someone who could become part of it, shape it gently, and pass on what little they could save from their own world.

Yes, it’s a bit emotionally detached, especially from a human perspective, but that doesn’t make it evil. It just shows how differently Kryptonians might think when their entire civilization is facing extinction.

This is an excellent point but the the movie itself reinforces the idea that they're villainous by ending with Superman now choosing to watch videos of the Kents instead (very much an Ego vs Yondu dichotomy in Guardians). .

Also wondering how Supergirl figures into all of this. You'd think she would have told Clark quite a few things about Krypton by now. But I guess it depends on what they do with her backstory in her solo film.

 

[Andreth]

This is an excellent point but the the movie itself reinforces the idea that they're villainous by ending with Superman now choosing to watch videos of the Kents instead (very much an Ego vs Yondu dichotomy in Guardians). .

Also wondering how Supergirl figures into all of this. You'd think she would have told Clark quite a few things about Krypton by now. But I guess it depends on what they do with her backstory in her solo film.

Yeah, totally, the movie does push that angle, especially with Clark choosing the Kents’ videos in the end.
But I kind of hope future movies explore this a bit more. Like, maybe Clark eventually makes peace with what his Kryptonian parents were trying to do, even if their approach was flawed or cold. It’d be really powerful to see him reconcile both sides of himself, not just reject one entirely. It might not have been the warmest approach, but I still think it wasn’t necessarily evil either. It’d be cool to see him find some peace with that part of his identity instead of just shutting it out.

 

[misjuevos]

To sum it up Superman get's hurt and Lex cries, The Kents are slackjawed hillbillies. That is your new version of Superman. James Gunn doesn't get Superman. He really doesn't get Supergirl. Now this is just preference, but I didn't like that he didn't even give Green Lantern an aura shield around himself, even when he flew. The one protective thing a GL has up out of instinct, which has become iconic, is his aura shield. He should stick to characters people don't know then he can change them however he wants.

 

[dhandler01]

One thing I keep thinking about is the reveal of Jor-El and Lara’s intentions, sending baby Kal-El to Earth not just to survive, but to eventually lead and even “populate” the planet with his descendants.

At first glance, it does sound a bit cold, maybe even a little unsettling. But I don’t necessarily read it as a villainous plan. I think it comes more from a place of desperation, of a dying world clinging to the idea that something of their legacy can live on. Maybe to them, Earth was the only viable place where that could happen, and Kal was their one and only vessel for that future.

It’s not about conquest or domination, but preservation, not just of Kryptonian biology, but of culture, ideals, history. They weren’t trying to create a ruler to control Earth, but someone who could become part of it, shape it gently, and pass on what little they could save from their own world.

Yes, it’s a bit emotionally detached, especially from a human perspective, but that doesn’t make it evil. It just shows how differently Kryptonians might think when their entire civilization is facing extinction.

I honestly never saw it that way but what a cool thought! I mean the video doesn't come off as malevolent...they aren't mustache twirling so that totally tracks!

 

[dhandler01]

To sum it up Superman get's hurt and Lex cries, The Kents are slackjawed hillbillies. That is your new version of Superman. James Gunn doesn't get Superman. He really doesn't get Supergirl. Now this is just preference, but I didn't like that he didn't even give Green Lantern an aura shield around himself, even when he flew. The one protective thing a GL has up out of instinct, which has become iconic, is his aura shield. He should stick to characters people don't know then he can change them however he wants.

I mean that is literally Supergirl in the comics so...

"Slack Jawed Hillbillies"? Ok then...

 

[flickchick85]

I(what are we abbreviating it to? S'25?)

Sounds about right.

One thing I keep thinking about is the reveal of Jor-El and Lara’s intentions, sending baby Kal-El to Earth not just to survive, but to eventually lead and even “populate” the planet with his descendants.

At first glance, it does sound a bit cold, maybe even a little unsettling. But I don’t necessarily read it as a villainous plan. I think it comes more from a place of desperation, of a dying world clinging to the idea that something of their legacy can live on. Maybe to them, Earth was the only viable place where that could happen, and Kal was their one and only vessel for that future.

It’s not about conquest or domination, but preservation, not just of Kryptonian biology, but of culture, ideals, history. They weren’t trying to create a ruler to control Earth, but someone who could become part of it, shape it gently, and pass on what little they could save from their own world.

Yes, it’s a bit emotionally detached, especially from a human perspective, but that doesn’t make it evil. It just shows how differently Kryptonians might think when their entire civilization is facing extinction.

I immediately thought of the Eradicator in that moment. Let’s remember this is the same culture that created (or programmed/used) that thing (and in certain recent takes, it was these specific people who created it) So yeah, I too saw it - from their POV - as a desperate preservation thing.

 

[DCDAVE]

I am not gonna give Superman a true review because I am one of those people that needs to see a movie multiple times at home to get a clear understanding of what I just watched. I want to be able to sit in front of my television and rewind certain scenes. To really take in the characters. So I am going to post about my feelings on Superman the character instead. Give my fresh thoughts.

Superman/Clark: The movie begins like the first trailer Superman crash landing in the snow. We get some context that this is the first fight he has ever lost. I got the impression that it was the first time he was even injured. Throughout the movie Superman is getting his butt kicked by Luther, Ultraman, and the Engineer mentally and physically. Kal-El is vulnerable like I have never seen him before. He is confused and seems clueless to what is going on. I found that to be a fascinating take on the Man of Steel. Superman had no clue that Luther was trying to turn him into a lab rat and wanted to destroy every trace of him. I got the impression that Superman did not believe anyone could hate him so much. How could he. Kal-El is the most powerful being on earth and world’s protector. The fortress is impossible to find let alone get inside of. Luther was a fantastic villain by the way. Before this movie started Superman was on top of the world. In love with Lois, dog sitting Krypto, probably just discovered that another Kryptonian survived and it happened to be his cousin, and has a friendship with the Justice gang/Jimmy/robots. This movie to me is what it is actually like to be Superman. I mean I felt Gunn put me in Kal-El’s shoes for the entire movie. This movie is an original. There has never been a comic book movie like Superman. The Kents did it for me. They were so simple and true. Pa Kent loved son like I have never seen before on the big screen. There was no question that the Clark didn’t consider the Kents his parents. He didn’t look at them as vulnerable, Clark looked at them as mom and dad. They are the core of Superman. This movie answered the question for me to why Superman is not Homelander or Omni Man. Superman is a human being and he considers himself one. Remember Superman does not snap necks, torture, and laser people. That is why he is Superman. Enjoy the movie everyone. Gunn and David did right by the Man of Steel.

 

[The Batman]

Finished the film an hour ago. In terms of overall quality, I'd say it felt like Captain America: The First Avenger. It had some really good elements in there, but overall was more of a "fine" movie than a great/good one.

Corenswet was really good as Superman. For the first time since Reeve, In terms of characterization, Corenswet gave a much needed spark to the Superman aspect of the role.

Brosnahan does great with what she's given, which doesn't feel like much. The best scenes in the movie are when she and Clark are talking to each other.

Hoult does a perfect job at capturing the modern version of Lex Luthor.

The Daily Planet crew are well cast, it's too bad they don't get much to do.

Mr. Terrific basically steals the movie in terms of the superhero stuff. Nathan does a good job as Guy Gardner. Hawkgirl is just...there.

The fight scenes are alright, it's a shame the most memorable one doesn't involve the title character.

I do not like the Gunn take on Jor El and Lara. Ma and Pa were solid enough.

I wish we actually saw Superman get involved in the conflict between the two nations. Him not getting involved at the end almost felt like a cop out.

I'd like to see a sequel that's longer, focuses on the Daily Planet crew more, and doesn't have the Justice Gang.

7/10

 

[GreenKToo]

Just got out. Lots to process. It started out kinda slow, but picked up quickly.
Loved Lex. He is the Lex I've always wanted to see. Super intelligent. He was several steps of superman and created machines all around the world to enter the pocket dimensions.

Loved Mr terrific and guy.
Hawkgirl was just kinda there.
Metamorpho was great also.

Krypto was great. I wouldn't say he stole the show, but damn near it lol.

I didn't really care for the kents.

The score. It had some good parts, other parts was just kinda meh.

Lois and Clark had great chemistry, but i Coulda used a LOT more of them and the DP.

I had no problem with any of the CG.

The action scenes were great, and superman using HIs heat vision while spinning was awesome. The fight between him the engineer and ultraman was on point. Loved how superman flew straight up to get the nanites off.

Lex got his at the end. Shades of Hulk slamming loki.

Solid 8/10.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Eh, Jor-el is right.

 

[GreenKToo]

And FYI, I saw NO political messaging and/or preaching. None.

 

[titansupes]

But he doesn't really do that after that scene. He doesn't do that until after Lois figures out who he is and talks to him. Remember she ends up at his dads grave and he is still not out to the world yet and still doesn't trust humanity. Then Zod shows up, Clark goes to church and he goes public.

The scene where he flies was cute and it was great how he smiled for maybe the first time in the film...but it is ruined by the fact that it changed nothing about him. Even when he turns himself in and he is talking to Lois, he doesn't seem to trust the people or really believe this will work to make them not hate him for being an alien.

To me it would have worked better if, once he realizes who he is and the powers he has, he remembers that the only time he really felt a part of the world was when he was helping people. Then when he flies he gets in a few saves or fixes a few things and his purpose becomes clear. He stays in the shadows, but then when Lois finds him he feels inspired to be more than just a hero in the background.

EXACTLY. Like I said, it's not executed well, but that was certainly the intention of the scene. Like in BvS, the Martha moment sheds Batman of his thirst for vengeance and brings him out of his murderous fog... then in the next scene he kills a dozen of Luthor's goons.

Zack Snyder storytelling for you.

 

[GreenKToo]

My wife squealed and clapped when krypto got a hold of Lex at the end.

 

[Sverdlovski]

Free Jahanpur!

 

[dhandler01]

So after seeing it a second time, as I said in the other thread, I revise up from 8.5 to 9. Honestly I loved the film even more and a lot of the complaints we all kind of had fell by the wayside...and not cause I wanted them too.

An example was, it felt on first viewing that a lot of scenes didn't have a chance to breathe. Everything is happening so fast it feels like we are getting a bit of whiplash. This time I noticed that a lot of the scenes have more going on in them than I noticed the first time. Especially at the Planet...the back and forth between everyone and just the overall feel seemed different. Honestly it felt longer in those scenes because I was taking it all in not all hyped up waiting for whatever is coming next.

Its hard to explain but I felt myself loving things more this time than I did 2 days ago...especially the way the Justice Gang interacts with each other and Lois. And seeing how naïve Clark is was everything I wanted out of this version of Superman and it is way more noticeable. He is so trusting, even of Guy, and it doesn't feel forced or tacked on...I totally buy that Clark would be that way.

Hawkgirl does get shortchanged which sucks but I am not sure what they could have done. Her origin is a bit much...she did beat some a** though and seemed to enjoy giving Guy grief.

Honestly, it was way less flawed on viewing #2. I will probably take my dad next week so who knows how much better it will be on that viewing

 

[dhandler01]

My wife squealed and clapped when krypto got a hold of Lex at the end.

I still cant get over how great Krypto is...that concept is just ridiculous and because Gunn puts such earnestness into it it just works! When the Engineer attacks him I wanted to throw down!

 

[The_Root]

I read quite a few people saying that the film felt choppy at times in terms of its editing/storytelling. For those of you that have already seen it, can you confirm if that's true?

To me it wasn’t choppy. For me, the first act was a little chaotic but it really settles in and the last 2/3 are fantastic.

 

[legendkillin]

I really enjoyed it, maybe because Lex was a pure villain. Hoult really owned the part they gave you nothing to like about him, you can really feel the hatred for Superman.

Mr. Terrific was good, I felt he had good lines and fight scenes.

Guy made me want a Lantern movie even more.

Can't say anything about Hawkgirl she barely did anything the wailing did get annoying at the end.

Krypto was good, I expected him to just be cute and sell toys but the dog helped a lot. Superman looking for the dog was a scene I liked. He was trusted to keep it safe, though Krypto was not his he developed a relationship. Cara showing up at the end made me look forward to her movie, she seems fun. I probably would have skipped her movie if she was bland.

I liked Lois, she wasn't a damsel and held her own the interview scene was intense. The Daily Planet others felt forced, I don't know if the blonde girl becomes a character in the future but her and the sports guy were useless.

The way all those people turned on Superman did seem silly. I can nitpick that and other parts like the team Lex being annoying but Lex himself being so good makes me overlook them. Eve either being really smart by setting selfies around things that incriminate Lex.

I still say 8-9

 

[DKDetective]

I liked a lot it, but I didn't love it. I feel like it was a good start and something that can be built upon, but Gunn needs to step back from the creative. I'll start with the negatives.

Honestly, the thing with the Els did not bug me as much as I was worried because I thought Clark's chat with Pa worked so beautifully. Pa's lines about it's not a parent's job to tell us what to do but to give us the tools to screw everything up ourselves was wonderful. As was his lines about how what Clark wanted the message to say tells the truth about him as a person.

I also can't see the Els really being that way with Kara around, there has to be something more to it or mis-translation. I think it is being set up to be re-evaluated later, which I think is a mistake and not how one should make movies.

I feel like the script was a little under baked and I really disliked the Jimmy/Eve plotline. It felt really grossly misogynistic to me and I was okay with the idea of lampooning idiotic social media influencers, but this just felt too mean spirited and over the top. I think Gunn still continued to have some real issues with crass humour (ie. The language and Guy's giant middle fingers) that I feel like undermined the family friendly nature of a lighter, campier Superman story.

Metamorpho, Ultraman, Engineer, and Hawkgirl were also seriously under baked and felt like plot devices and cyphers. The Daily Planet crew was really under-utilized as well. The whole crew boarding the T-Craft to be involved in the third act felt like checking a box.

The score had its moments (mostly the Fleming stuff) but this series really needs to abandon the Donner references and stand on its own. The reuse of the Williams theme and the Donner titles, etc. needs to go ASAP.

Onto the positives, David, Rachel, and Nick were spot on. Terrific was definitely a scene stealer and it was great to see a smart, scientist black hero. Guy was great as well and ought to have been all the edgy humour the movie needed.

Ma and Pa were a big part of the soul. I loved how they weren't portrayed as moral paragons, but just decent regular people, who were good loving parents. Their role in the story was not to tell Clark what to do, but to just be there for him and to help him feel not alone. The un-necessary force and dehumanization of Clark when he turned himself in was a powerful moment. I thought it was a really timely reflection of how many Americans are being turned into enemy aliens from neighbours and friends overnight. I actually think the Els not being great works really well with that. A lot of the immigrants who are being dehumanized and deported right now are not perfect. That is why the US Gov't is able to justify it based on criminal records, etc. However, just because these people have made mistakes doesn't mean they should lose their rights or be treated as less than human.

I thought the action was generally great. I really liked how the action set pieces didn't overstay their welcome. Luthor controlling Ultraman was great and I really loved the monologuing during the third act fight.

All in all, I would say it is a 7/10, roughly comparable to STM to me. It is uneven and has some serious flaws but also some major strengths. I prefer it to STM in that I feel like its interpretation of major characters is definitely closer to what I would want to see. I still feel like I haven't gotten MY Superman movie to the extent that Begins, TDK, or The Batman have been for me with Batman.