Superman SPOILER Review Thread (NO TAGS NECESSARY)

[dhandler01]

My thoughts after sleeping on the movie.

This is a solid 8/10 movie. I agree with @Ninjablade the script feels...half baked. A lot of big ideas introduced very fast at you and its almost overwhelming, But I actually do feel a LOT was left in the editing room. I'd be willing to bet Gunn's ideal cut of this is like 2hrs 40mins and fleshes out alot of these concepts but I think he may have felt pressure to make this movie feel a bit more swift.

And boy does it. The movie never has a lull and just moves at a clip, constantly. The cast is its strongest asset. Corenswet, Brosnahan, Hoult...everybody really do an amazing job and anchor this film and just give it a fun, joyful energy. I feel like I wanted more "downtime" scenes of Clark and Lois just..being Clark and Lois and exploring their relationship and Clark's life juggling his alter ego in general. Their scenes together are magic.

The movie overall just has a fun, vibrant energy to it that makes it nearly impossible not to like even if the script is messy. And you know what guys, sometimes a movie can get away with a messy script if its very strong in other areas (e.g. No Way Home). This is big on characters, humor, kinetic energy, solid action, a great heroic score, and a charming, hopeful Superman.

I honestly doubt there is much on the edit room floor at all. As was mention in another thread what we saw is basically what the leakers saw months ago with some rough edges dealt with.

I didn't find the script messy any more than any other cbm. Maybe because it more resembles a comic story (which tend to jump around and may have weird holes that are filled in much later) or something. I dunno.

 

[kguillou]

There was definitely holes in this story. Like, for example Tessmacher and her convenient “relationship” with Jimmy Olsen and..i guess she is Lex’s gf that hes jealous over? That whole triangle was definitely undercooked. We really dont get a sense of who this chick is to Lex or why shes hanging around him or what happened with her and Jimmy. I wouldnt have cared except her crush on jimmy ends up being a pretty pivotal plot point.

It was just stuff like that where the film as telling now showing because the movie didnt feel like it had time to.

 

[Primal Slayer]

There was definitely holes in this story. Like, for example Tessmacher and her convenient “relationship” with Jimmy Olsen and..i guess she is Lex’s gf that hes jealous over? That whole triangle was definitely undercooked. We really dont get a sense of who this chick is to Lex or why shes hanging around him or what happened with her and Jimmy. I wouldnt have cared except her crush on jimmy ends up being a pretty pivotal plot point.

It was just stuff like that where the film as telling now showing because the movie didnt feel like it had time to.

I think they gave us enough info tbh.

Hot chick who is crazy. Was into Jimmy. Jimmy was into her until he found out being hot isn't everything. Lex sees her as a hot dumb blonde. She's using Lex as a way to get over Jimmy and live a lavish lifestyle while also being afraid of breaking up with Lex.

 

[dhandler01]

There was definitely holes in this story. Like, for example Tessmacher and her convenient “relationship” with Jimmy Olsen and..i guess she is Lex’s gf that hes jealous over? That whole triangle was definitely undercooked. We really dont get a sense of who this chick is to Lex or why shes hanging around him or what happened with her and Jimmy. I wouldnt have cared except her crush on jimmy ends up being a pretty pivotal plot point.

It was just stuff like that where the film as telling now showing because the movie didnt feel like it had time to.

We dont need to know why she and Jimmy hooked up in the past, we just need to know she is a clingy stalker who is with Lex cause he is rich and if she breaks up with him she will end up in the pocket universe like the girl who wrote a blog about him. We literally know everything we need to know about her.

Plus, Lex is obviously banging The Engineer anyways.

I guess I dont know how you would show the relationship in the past outside of what they did. The story takes place over a few days and Jimmy had obviously ghosted her a long time ago.

 

[dhandler01]

I think they gave us enough info tbh.

Hot chick who is crazy. Was into Jimmy. Jimmy was into her until he found out being hot isn't everything. Lex sees her as a hot dumb blonde. She's using Lex as a way to get over Jimmy and live a lavish lifestyle while also being afraid of breaking up with Lex.

Bingo.

Hell that is more than we know about the original character in Superman: TM. All we know is her mom lives in Hackensack, NJ and she and Lex maybe hook up?

 

[Herolee10]

I read quite a few people saying that the film felt choppy at times in terms of its editing/storytelling. For those of you that have already seen it, can you confirm if that's true?

 

[kguillou]

We dont need to know why she and Jimmy hooked up in the past, we just need to know she is a clingy stalker who is with Lex cause he is rich and if she breaks up with him she will end up in the pocket universe like the girl who wrote a blog about him. We literally know everything we need to know about her.

Plus, Lex is obviously banging The Engineer anyways.

I guess I dont know how you would show the relationship in the past outside of what they did. The story takes place over a few days and Jimmy had obviously ghosted her a long time ago.

And thats fair, I dont know, to me it just felt like there was defnitely some meat cut off from this edit that gave some characters and subplots more breathing room and Gunn had to pare it all down to the bare essentials. Don't get me wrong, the film undeniably still works really well but I felt the edits.

 

[The Batman]

Bingo.

Hell that is more than we know about the original character in Superman: TM. All we know is her mom lives in Hackensack, NJ and she and Lex maybe hook up?

This makes sense if you didn't pay attention to STM Tessmacher.

STM Tessmacher: Hot chick who is sassy. Is into Superman, to the point where she kisses him. Lex sees both her and Otis as nincompoops. Not only does her mom live in Hackensack, but she clearly loves her mom, so much so that she's willing to ruin Lex's plan and save his archenemy in the process. On some level, she objects to Lex's homicidal methods.

 

[Matthew2D]

Okay I created an account just to discuss this film with internet strangers because I have so many thoughts I want to get out.

This movie is very conflicting. There is a A LOT here that I love, and a lot that I didn't. I'm going to run through my thoughts on this, sorry if feels jumbled.

Characters
These characters were done really well. Overall, James Gunn handled the large cast pretty well. I didn't really have any doubts on this going in, because of Guardians of the Galaxy, but glad that wasn't a HUGE problem. I do have nitpicks on this though I'll explain below.

Superman/Clark Kent: This is my favorite on screen movie superman since Christopher Reeves. James Gunn nailed the characterization of Superman and this movie embodies superman in a way we have not seen before on screen. This character IS Superman.

Clark is also characterized really well, but we don't see more of actual Clark. I WILL say though, this Superman felt more Clark like than actual Superman. You could make the arguement that the Superman in this film was pretty much Clark the whole time. I know he his obviously is Clark, but Superman and Clark usually have different characterizations.

Lex Luthor: I haven't decided yet, but I believe this is my favorite on screen movie Lex Luthor. He is RUTHLESS in this film, and my jaw dropped when he killed that civilian. I did not expect that in this movie. Nicholas Hoult was a definite standout. Rosenbaum's Lex is definitely better but he had 7 seasons to flesh it out.

Lios Lane: Great part by Rachel Brosnahan. She definitely got this role by playing Ms Maisel and I love it here. Chemistry with Clark is off the charts, I just wanted MORE of it.

Mr. Terrific: Absolute standout in this film, maybe too good. He had arguably the coolest fight scene in the movie and may....have overshadowed Superman. That's really my only nit pick on his character.

Guy Gardner: Nathan Fillian kills it here, as always. Sold me immediately.

Hawk Girl: Didn't really do much in the film, and didn't care for her. I did not like when she killed the president of Baravia.

Engineer: Had no problems with the actress playing her, but honestly felt unnecessary in the film. Honestly, could of taken her out and the film wouldn't really change. Pretty much setup for The Authority. I can't remember exactly what Clark said, but he told the Engineer she doesn't have to fight for Luthor anymore. Little smidge of the future with the Authority.

Ultraman: He was okay, really just a shoehorn boss for Superman to fight.

Parents: LOVED Ma and Pa Kent. They did this right and glad they're both here. I teared up during Pa Kent and Clark's scene at the Farm.

Daily Planet: The daily planet crew was awesome, but had more potential. Really liked Jimmy's character in the film. Perry white was just there really for the end. Cat Grant, don't care.

Tone: This movie was 'fun'. It felt like watching a Superman cartoon which is awesome. We have not seen this on screen before and I'm really excited for the future of DCU.

Pacing: The pacing this movie is a bit off. It moves scene to scene with no time for slowing down. Honestly the only time this movie really slows down is on the Farm with the parents and the apartment scene with Lois.

My biggest problem with the pacing is that we don't get ENOUGH. The characters in this film are SO GOOD that you want more. This movie could of easily been another 15-20 min. I don't know why James Gunn felt that it HAD to be 2 hours, it didn't. An extra 15-20 min would really have fleshed out Lois, a bit more of the daily planet crew, more of Clark, and given us more time with these characters

Score: Honestly, this movie would be better with a re-score. Score didn't do much for me. It didn't make me really FEEL like I could fly or be Superman or anything. The closest we got was when they brought the John Williams score remix.

Action sequences: People will love or hate them. It's very anime esque. Fast movements, swivel around characters, if that makes sense.

Saving sequences: This is one of my biggest problems. All the saving people sequences are the ones you see in the trailers. They are very quick and skip to the next scene.

We didn't get a major saving people moment imo. The closest we got was when the tower fell on the bridge and you wanted to see all the people run or all the cars drive by, but all we see is ONE person drive out.

Now I get the message, every life is worth saving, even just one. Hell, he even saves a squirrel. But I feel that tower sequence, was SUCH a missed opportunity. He could of saved a hundred people on that bridge and they all look up and see him coming out of the dust cloud. Him coming out of the dust, which is the one in the trailer, was a legitimate good scene. And they squandered that imo.

Creative decisions:
There are some weird creative decisions I did not like in this film.
1. Did not like Clark's Kryptonian parents being evil with that stupid harem ****. That felt like some type of parody. They literally could of done it in a way where Lex manipulates the footage, and that would of been perfect.

2. The baby and the anti proteon (minecraft) river sequence. Did not like that sequence at all. Felt very cheap and forced in.

-----

I really feel like the Legacy of this movie, will depend on future movies. James Gunn wanted to drop us into this already living world with existing characters just like watching a Superman Cartoon. This movie IS a live action Superman cartoon or comic book. And that felt awesome, but it needed to be longer to flesh out the really important characters like Lois, Clark and the Daily Planet.

If they can focus a bit better on future movies and really flesh out the characters, I think this movie and the DCU will be looked at fondly. And I will say I have faith. I want this universe to succeed because it was fun and something we have not seen before. I really feel DCU is on a proper path, but they need to flesh out the characters.

I didn't hate this movie. I would definitely watch it again, but it's not the greatest superman movie ever. Better than Man of Steel though. Frankly though, I think this is a worse movie than it is a Superman movie, if that makes sense. I am content with it, but hopeful for the future.

I might add more thoughts, but for now that's what I have.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Okay I created an account just to discuss this film with internet strangers because I have so many thoughts I want to get out.

 

[DCDAVE]

Supergirl’s intro was so fast but I loved how it explained how Krypto keeps jumping on people. So cute….. Kara is in so much pain. She literally goes to places that she is vulnerable so she can get drunk and forget about her life. Milly is a different take on Supergirl for sure. Her movie should be a big hit as well.

 

[RiXi]

Even if her being in the movie, and exactly how it would happen, was leaked months ago... I still got the surprise of seeing her in costume. I was fully expecting she'd show up in civilian clothes.

 

[dhandler01]

This makes sense if you didn't pay attention to STM Tessmacher.

STM Tessmacher: Hot chick who is sassy. Is into Superman, to the point where she kisses him. Lex sees both her and Otis as nincompoops. Not only does her mom live in Hackensack, but she clearly loves her mom, so much so that she's willing to ruin Lex's plan and save his archenemy in the process. On some level, she objects to Lex's homicidal methods.

No she doesn't...she only cares when it affects her directly and then goes right back to him. She literally breaks him out of jail in Superman 2.

Sorry but you are reading way too much into her character imho.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

This makes sense if you didn't pay attention to STM Tessmacher.

STM Tessmacher: Hot chick who is sassy. Is into Superman, to the point where she kisses him. Lex sees both her and Otis as nincompoops. Not only does her mom live in Hackensack, but she clearly loves her mom, so much so that she's willing to ruin Lex's plan and save his archenemy in the process. On some level, she objects to Lex's homicidal methods.

Thank you for being the only other person bothered by Gunn’s Tessmacher in comparison to the original! There’s a whole plurality of us now!

 

[dhandler01]

I honestly dont like either of them

 

[Ninjablade]

Which leads me to the story/themes, which I adored. Clark feeling that empty attachment to Kryptonian holograms and listening to their messages to soothe him because it's the only time he ever feels like he belongs, then figuring out throughout the film that he belongs through his humanity is just a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Ok, you were warned lol. So I know Gunn mostly took the route with Jor-El/Jonathan that he did because he was writing a love letter to the man that raised him, BUT viewing this movie through a Jewish-coded lens, as I always tend to look for in Superman stories for obvious reasons, I feel like the portrayal of Jor-El and Lara might be reflecting the way a lot of Jewish folks I know feel about the state of Israel and their government right now. Because the Kryptonians here weren't, like, mustache-twirling evil. The way they were talking about the people of Earth very much brought to mind an interview I saw a couple of months ago with a zionist woman in Tel Aviv. It's a misguided view of people and a place they've never actually taken the time to know, and only know what they've been told their whole lives. And I personally know a couple of Jewish folks who are deeply disgusted with those viewpoints and the current climate in their homeland, and it seems like a lot of people in the Jewish community feel the same. Regardless of whether or not this was a deliberate parallel, I do believe the message that you are not the attitudes of your forebears, and you are not where you are from, but you are who you choose to be, is as Superman as it gets. Hell I've had that last part on a Superman/Iron Giant t-shirt for years. While I can understand why some would be bothered by the accidental optics created by that message in terms of what immigrants in the US are currently dealing with, I have to say the way it's presented, I don't think THAT particular optic comes across...like at all. But I respect the opinions of those who feel differently.

Can't sleep and my mind is wandering, and damn you Flick this is such an interesting reading and post that I haven't stopped thinking about it since I read it. Has me reflecting on similar conversations I've had with my own father, who also immigrated to America as a young child and lost his father during the process, about similar kinds of loose connections to his home country and whatnot.

Initially, while not totally bothered by the whole Jor-El thing, I did feel pretty icky about some of the optics of what it's presenting, though I do recognize that it seems to be incidental. Very misguided white guy. Thinking about it more and more, I've come to the conclusion that it's really the comment about how he should take a lot of wives that bothers me the most and really points the whole thing in a kind of gross light. One of those Gunn-isms that's not totally thought through so he can make poor jokes. If you remove it, I'd probably feel much better about it because I really don't think it was purposely malicious.

I do hope we get to see more of this explored as we go along and follow this Superman and his family. I really don't want to see Zod, but using other characters with knowledge of what Kryton was like has a lot of potential. Really helps reinforce Clark's humanity.

 

[Ninjablade]

I read quite a few people saying that the film felt choppy at times in terms of its editing/storytelling. For those of you that have already seen it, can you confirm if that's true?

I thought structurally the film can feel a little janky with it's editing, and I attribute some of that to the film clearly being structured like The Suicide Squad. It was clearly written to be deliberately broken into chapters with title cards, only those title cards have been removed so you get a few really jarring edits. From the sounds of it, they removed them in test screenings because audiences didn't like them. Which is lame, but what can you do.

There's only one scene that would say I found poorly edited, but it was rather minor.

 

[RiXi]

I think they gave us enough info tbh.

Hot chick who is crazy. Was into Jimmy. Jimmy was into her until he found out being hot isn't everything. Lex sees her as a hot dumb blonde. She's using Lex as a way to get over Jimmy and live a lavish lifestyle while also being afraid of breaking up with Lex.

I mean, I'm gonna be honest. I was surprised she was a deeper character than what we were led to believe.

We have no idea how she ended up dating Lex. But she is very much aware that if she tries to leave, he's gonna lock her up.

While not a rocket scientist, she understands concepts such as pocket dimensions as she could tell Jimmy easily.

And most importantly. Every single time we see her taking a "sexy selfie", she was not just being a dumb blonde stereotype. She was very much on purpose collecting evidence of everything Lex was doing, keeping the receipts in case she needed to use them. Everything was noticeable proof. Maps, contracts, meetings. And she did it so smoothly that when she got caught, Luthor didn't even catch her true intentions. He just locked her up for sending hot pics to another guy.

As Lois points out, she was actually quite smart.

Now, Otis had the biggest IQ upgrade from those two. But I still would've wished for an Otisburg easter egg

 

[flickchick85]

I thought structurally the film can feel a little janky with it's editing, and I attribute some of that to the film clearly being structured like The Suicide Squad. It was clearly written to be deliberately broken into chapters with title cards, only those title cards have been removed so you get a few really jarring edits. From the sounds of it, they removed them in test screenings because audiences didn't like them. Which is lame, but what can you do.

There's only one scene that would say I found poorly edited, but it was rather minor.

For better or worse, I've come to believe this is simply a James Gunn staple now. I know he's used traditional structures before, but from GotG Vol. 2 onward, he seems to be deliberately rejecting the more traditional storytelling format in his movies, kinda muddling the whole "3 act structure" idea at times, which affects the pacing. Now, I HATED it in Vol. 2 - that's actually my #1 complaint about that movie, and it kinda bothered me in TSS too. But I feel like he's been honing and refining it, as it didn't bother me in Vol. 3 or here. But it's definitely a thing.

I still wish we'd kept the days of the week framing device here, though.

 

[The Batman]

No she doesn't...she only cares when it affects her directly and then goes right back to him.

Her first scene has her calling out Lex for killing a detective. That's objecting to Lex's homicidal methods on some level. IMO, so is asking him why so many people have to die for his plan to work.

Even if one disagrees with that, your own response just shows that we know more about her than just "she has a mom in Hackensack and maybe dates Lex LoL".

Sorry but you are reading way too much into her character imho.

Of course you'd say this, this isn't the first time you've had a reductive view on something STM related.

Thank you for being the only other person bothered by Gunn’s Tessmacher in comparison to the original! There’s a whole plurality of us now!

I haven't seen Gunn's Tessmacher, and I didn't mention her in my post. I just think that "we only knew two things about Donner's Tessmacher" is an inaccurate take.

 

[GreenKToo]

Tessmacher in S:TM was way smarter than she let on. She was far from the dumb blonde that she portrayed.

 

[Ninjablade]

For better or worse, I've come to believe this is simply a James Gunn staple now. I know he's used traditional structures before, but from GotG Vol. 2 onward, he seems to be deliberately rejecting the more traditional storytelling format in his movies, kinda muddling the whole "3 act structure" idea at times, which affects the pacing. Now, I HATED it in Vol. 2 - that's actually my #1 complaint about that movie, and it kinda bothered me in TSS too. But I feel like he's been honing and refining it, as it didn't bother me in Vol. 3 or here. But it's definitely a thing.

I still wish we'd kept the days of the week framing device here, though.

TSS is really the only one where it bothered me so far, mainly because I didn't like how he chose to segment that one. Felt the movie never got into a good flow because anytime there was momentum you'd be jumping back in time. The stylized title cards were cool, and it's a damn shame we didn't get some more here.

I'll give it to Gunn, it does feel extremely comic booky. It more than anything captures that experience of picking up a trade and flipping through the different issues. Curious if Ana Nogueira will try to replicate it at all for Woman of Tomorrow.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

I'd like to highlight the moment/scene when Superman takes flight after being healed by the robots in the Fortress. One could draw a comparison between this scene and the one in MoS where Clark flies for the first time but they couldn't be more different. In MoS we're just supposed to marvel at the imagery and the man but here there's emotion and meaning behind it...7 minutes into the film. He's just gotten his ass beat but he's going back out there, still determined and optimistic. This film managed to do more for Superman in 7 minutes than Man of Steel in 2.5 hours.

 

[titansupes]

I'd like to highlight the moment/scene when Superman takes flight after being healed by the robots in the Fortress. One could draw a comparison between this scene and the one in MoS where Clark flies for the first time but they couldn't be more different. In MoS we're just supposed to marvel at the imagery and the man but here there's emotion and meaning behind it...7 minutes into the film. He's just gotten his ass beat but he's going back out there, still determined and optimistic. This film managed to do more for Superman in 7 minutes than Man of Steel in 2.5 hours.

I ain't no MoS defender, and I've always felt that scene doesn't hit the way it's supposed to, HOWEVER-- it's definitely meant to be representative of him finally unshackling himself from his lifelong burden of having to hide his true self and his powers etc. Execution was meh, but that's there's a clear narrative for that scene beyond the imagery.

Regarding this movie (what are we abbreviating it to? S'25?), I adored him for immediately taking off to go kick some ass and save some lives. "No can do, 4. Gotta get back to the fray", both the delivery and the friggin' walk had such and old school movie hero swagger.

 

[dhandler01]

Tessmacher in S:TM was way smarter than she let on. She was far from the dumb blonde that she portrayed.

No she is pretty much the same as she is in this film. She is always in a mode of self preservation.