Tdk vs Avengers

[DACrowe]

I would peg it as the second most influential CBM, though. Superman the Movie wins out for starting the whole ball rolling, but no other movie has had as much influence on the shape of the rest of the industry as Avengers. Basically every movie since has defined itself either in how it copies or rebels against Avengers.

One could say the same about Sam Raimi's original Spider-Man and The Dark Knight.

Maybe The Avengers will be more so if these shared universes actually become the norm (I think Sony's is already going up in smoke and it is still only Spidey movies). But there have always been genre leaders that cause paradigm shifts. It is still early to say that this one is necessarily bigger than what has come before. At least for the major ones.

 

[Punisher Rising]

Both are excellent but being forced to choose I got to go with The Avengers.

 

[Shikamaru]

Most influential CBM's of all time - in no particular order - are Superman '78, Batman '89, Spider-Man '02, The Dark Knight, and The Avengers.

It's funny I just realized this now, but Avengers would be the superhero film to reach that same cultural phenomenon height but not feature one of the Big Three superheroes (Superman/Batman/Spider-Man). If Avengers has anything on the others in terms of cultural impact, it's that. It arguably launched an era where Marvel's B-listers, particularly Iron Man and maybe Cap, will have a significant increase in popularity and iconic status in the upcoming years.

 

[metaphysician]

One could say the same about Sam Raimi's original Spider-Man and The Dark Knight.

Maybe The Avengers will be more so if these shared universes actually become the norm (I think Sony's is already going up in smoke and it is still only Spidey movies). But there have always been genre leaders that cause paradigm shifts. It is still early to say that this one is necessarily bigger than what has come before. At least for the major ones.

Hey, if Avengers causes another studio to do something stupid that destroys it, that is influence.

 

[Visualiza]

Hey, if Avengers causes another studio to do something stupid that destroys it, that is influence.

Touché.

 

[Tequilla]

TDK, but the Avengers will obviously go down as the most influential film in the genre, at least so far.

and i thought my jokes were bad

 

[Squaremaster316]

Most influential CBM's of all time - in no particular order - are Superman '78, Batman '89, Spider-Man '02, The Dark Knight, and The Avengers.

Don't forget Batman Begins. Not only has that film has a remarkable impact on the genre, but has had more influence outside the CBM community than any other film of the genre. Bond, Apes, Trek, upcoming Terminator, etc.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Don't forget Batman Begins. Not only has that film has a remarkable impact on the genre, but has had more influence outside the CBM community than any other film of the genre. Bond, Apes, Trek, upcoming Terminator, etc.

Begins has arguably had more influence than TDK. The first X-Men seems to be passed over a lot in these lists as well.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

^ yeah. without the First X-Men movie there probably wouldn't be Marvel movies on film.

The two most influential imo are Superman and X-Men because they kickstarted the genres and without them these other ones who changed the genre likely wouldn't have existed in the first place

 

[terry78]

XMen was good for its time because like Avengers it was deemed as unfilmable in live action, Batman will never be seen as umfilmabke, it's a man in a ****ing bat costume.

 

[redfirebird2008]

XMen was good for its time because like Avengers it was deemed as unfilmable in live action, Batman will never be seen as umfilmabke, it's a man in a ****ing bat costume.

A serious Batman was seen as unfilmable for many years. Go ask Michael Uslan about how difficult it was to convince Hollywood executives to take the character seriously.

 

[Iceman]

A serious Batman was seen as unfilmable for many years. Go ask Michael Uslan about how difficult it was to convince Hollywood executives to take the character seriously.

Yep I've argued since I was a kid that a properly dark Batman film would make big bucks and team movies could be made successful with the right people behind them. This is back before even Batman Forever. It seemed so unlikely for so long that anyone would actually do these things.

 

[Green Goblin]

Shared universes have been done before Avengers.

 

[DACrowe]

Yes, technically speaking Universal did do it first.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Yes, technically speaking Universal did do it first.

So did Toho with Godzilla, Mothra, Rodan, etc.

 

[Lord]

So did Toho with Godzilla, Mothra, Rodan, etc.

Though Universal still did it first.

 

[DA_Champion]

In 20 years it might be clear which of the two movies is more respected.

It will be interesting to see which ends up making credible lists of the 100 or 200 greatest movies ever made.

Nota Bene: The Dark Knight is the 4th greatest movie ever on IMDB.

 

[jmc]

If it's a list of 100 I see it hard for either to make the cut, a list of 200 though The Dark Knight without doubt would get through, not sure about Avengers. As for which will be more respected I think that will always be The Dark Knight simply because it overall has the better all round qualities, story, cinematography, score, acting, pacing, etc. Plus, it was a genuine awards player, for as good as Avengers is it can never lay claim to getting the same industry recognition as The Dark Knight.

 

[flickchick85]

If it's a list of 100 I see it hard for either to make the cut, a list of 200 though The Dark Knight without doubt would get through, not sure about Avengers. As for which will be more respected I think that will always be The Dark Knight simply because it overall has the better all round qualities, story, cinematography, score, acting, pacing, etc. Plus, it was a genuine awards player, for as good as Avengers is it can never lay claim to getting the same industry recognition as The Dark Knight.

Agreed, plus it also had a serious, topically relevant story to tell. Avengers just wanted to be a great adventure romp (and totally succeeded), but TDK had heftier things on its mind and accomplished them with top-notch technical finesse. Hard to argue with that. I honestly love both movies equally for completely different reasons, but as a film to be dissected and analyzed for years to come, TDK will certainly be the one for that.

 

[Batmannerism]

Agreed, plus it also had a serious, topically relevant story to tell. Avengers just wanted to be a great adventure romp (and totally succeeded), but TDK had heftier things on its mind and accomplished them with top-notch technical finesse. Hard to argue with that. I honestly love both movies equally for completely different reasons, but as a film to be dissected and analyzed for years to come, TDK will certainly be the one for that.

That's a very good way of summing it up ! I believe that TDK has layers that go far deeper than Avengers. It's like comparing a really good 80's action movie like Terminator to the Godfather - if there is a Godfather of comic book movies, the Dark Knight is it.

 

[DA_Champion]

That's a very good way of summing it up ! I believe that TDK has layers that go far deeper than Avengers. It's like comparing a really good 80's action movie like Terminator to the Godfather - if there is a Godfather of comic book movies, the Dark Knight is it.

I get the analogy, but The Terminator is closer to The Dark Knight than to the Avengers. It's a great movie with a tight and clever script.

 

[DA_Champion]

If it's a list of 100 I see it hard for either to make the cut, a list of 200 though The Dark Knight without doubt would get through, not sure about Avengers. As for which will be more respected I think that will always be The Dark Knight simply because it overall has the better all round qualities, story, cinematography, score, acting, pacing, etc. Plus, it was a genuine awards player, for as good as Avengers is it can never lay claim to getting the same industry recognition as The Dark Knight.

It's hard to tell, these lists are very subjective and full of biases, and currently in a lot of these lists the representation from science fiction movies is "zero" except for Kubrick's 2001.

That may change if CBMs are here to stay, and once future filmmakers who are currently 15 years old or even 25 years old have a say.

 

[WingedAvenger89]

Most influential CBM's of all time

Superman '78
Batman '89
Spider-Man
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight
Avengers

 

[meanmc]

I go with Avengers!
The movie blows me away every second...

Dark Knight is different. Great movie, Joker is amazing, best CBM ending - but it is not like The Avengers!

 

[schereZada]

Hi. This is an easy one. The Dark Knight. It was almost perfect in every sense and much above most (if not all) of the rest of superhero movies. Avengers was fun and all, but after its first impact ity's clear that there's not a lot more behind the surface. Cheers.