Comics The '07 X-Event: Endangered Species, Messiah Complex, & Disassembled

[Havok83]

He did offer the truth about the Massacre to Rogue before his trial, so slapping him with the "lie of omission" part isn't fully true. But before that I don't blame him for not telling them all about his darkest secret since he barely knew them and was still used to people stabbing him in the back: telling them about the Massacre would've been an idiotic thing to do.

In UXM 348, she flat out asks him to tell her what he had done bc she was getting distraught by his thoughts floating in her head and he tells her not to ask him; to trust him. He used that moment to sleep with her and she most likely felt used and betrayed by that

1: None of those people came looking for him. Even Rogue's retconned attempts to find him don't fit in with her busy schedule of picnics, finding a doctor to cure her powers, and fighting for team leadership.

2: The X-men are supposed to be a family. And that means you look out for them even if you don't particularly like them. Basically, they all acted like hypocrites.

Not that it helps, but they didnt go back looking for Bishop either who was lost at the same time as Gambit

They knew something was up. They just apparently didn't care enough to question her about it or go back for him after they returned to the mansion. Even Rogue's returns are BS: she flies at supersonic speeds and he was crawling on her hands and knees: she would have found him before he had gone half a mile.

Well Warren wasnt going to do it. He was the most affected by Gambit and I dont blame him for wiping his hands clean of him. Psylocke I guess could have but Warren lashed out at her for "knowing" what Gambit did and didnt tell him. He almost felt betrayed by her so she stood by her man. Joseph, well you know he and Gambit had no love for each other and besides he went off looking for clues to his own past after. Maggot had just joined and didnt know Gambit. That just leaves Beast, but how was he going to get to Antartica? He had no means of transportation since the mansion was cleaned out and its not lik he could have called up his old friends in the Avengers since they were "dead" at the time

And that was BS, as gambit later said.

1: Suicidal people do not struggle through miles of freezing hell and fuse with energy people and make deals with mysterious benefactors to stay alive.

2: if Rogue can't keep her self-control after absorbing someone, she has no damn business being on a team and going into combat situations.

In UXM 348, she lashes out at him and threatens to kill him. She looked pretty evil in that moment and it was obvious that it was not her own mind acting. She was being affected by the personas she had touched in the past. Its not that hard of a stretch to beleive that she was still being affected when she left Gambit

Yet they couldn't find time to go back and save someone they had all condemned to a slow and painful death? Whatever crimes he had committed, that was just wrong on their part. I'd go so far as to call it evil. They aren't judges, juries, or executioners.

If he kills anyone in #200, it'll be comeuppance IMO.

Again, what do these X-men ahve to do with it? I can give you Storm and Wolverine, but Colossus, Nightcrawler and Shadowcat did not even come back to the X-men until months later. They couldnt do anything about it, so I cant see how you can blame them. Aside from being some figure that saved her when she was just a child, Marrow did not know Gambit and had no reason to go out of her way to go searching around in Antartica for him and she ahd no means to do so anyway.

Storm thinks of gambit as a brother. They're much closer than Storm and Rogue, and Gambit's situation was far more perilous. Storm should have tried to *save his life* before worrying about rogue's bad dreams (seriously. Look at what I just typed: Storm was more worried about Rogue's *bad dream* than Gambit's *life*. I dare you to say that isn't screwed up.)



They would have found out afterwards and the fact that they knew what happened and didn't bother to go back makes them guilty. in a court of law, they'd end up with jail time because of that.

You said so yourself that Gambit didnt have a shirt on his back and being left in Antartica conditions is a death sentence. Realistically, if they had gone back to look for Gambit by the team the UXM returned to hte mansion, they'd be looking for a body, you know a dead one, so what was the point? The fact that Gambit survived is a miracle and he didnt do that on his own. And how would they find Gambit? Its a big continent and they didnt even have Cerebro at that point. OZT cleaned them out from all of their resources

 

[Havok83]

I miss Maggott. That's all I'll add to the conversation. He was wonderful.

Does anyone know exactly what plans the writers had for him, as well as the others on the team? Just curious. I like to learn what plots writers had in mind before leaving the book. I forget who, but one of the writers of Cable had this plan of linking Cable to Apocalypse, then revealing that Apocalypse was the 3rd Summers Brother sent into the past at birth. It was kinda far fetched but a neat read.

I liked Maggot too. I dont know what Kelly had planned for him but he wrote him out by giving him an invitation to the Massachusetts school. I suspect Marvel intervened there. He showed up in Gen X as a teen and it made NO sense bc Maggot was a man, not a teenaged boy. I hated this rewrite. I didnt read the Weapon X series, but did they rectify this?

Ive heard that Apocalypse plot before but dont recall the precise details. Im glad they didnt go forward with it

 

[Canemacar]

In UXM 348, she flat out asks him to tell her what he had done bc she was getting distraught by his thoughts floating in her head and he tells her not to ask him; to trust him. He used that moment to sleep with her and she most likely felt used and betrayed by that

In X-men 45, he offers her the truth and makes it clear he wants to be honest with her and to take away the distress she was feeling.

Gambit: "I'll do whatever I can t'help you. give anythin' I got--good and bad--to make ya'hurt go away."

Rogue: "But Remy...Don't you see? You have given me all you got... an' it wasn't enough."

Gambit: Den I'll find a way t'give you more. I like where I'm goin' a whole lot more dan where I been. I wanna go there wit' you. I want you t'touch me. To be inside me again--become me--let me become you--no secrets, no shame--so dat we can get past this an' go on from here. De way I want us to-together--as one. Choice is yours."

Not that it helps, but they didnt go back looking for Bishop either who was lost at the same time as Gambit

They didn't *know* he was in a life-threatening position that THEY had put him in.

Well Warren wasnt going to do it. He was the most affected by Gambit and I dont blame him for wiping his hands clean of him. Psylocke I guess could have but Warren lashed out at her for "knowing" what Gambit did and didnt tell him. He almost felt betrayed by her so she stood by her man. Joseph, well you know he and Gambit had no love for each other and besides he went off looking for clues to his own past after. Maggot had just joined and didnt know Gambit. That just leaves Beast, but how was he going to get to Antartica? He had no means of transportation since the mansion was cleaned out and its not lik he could have called up his old friends in the Avengers since they were "dead" at the time

1: Angle is understandable, but still wrong. I don't hold it against him, though.

2: Psylocke was just wrong. Saving a life is more important than "sticking by your man".

3: Joseph also took the low road. If you're a good guy, you don't leave someone to die just because you don't like them.

4: Maggot should have at least made a moral argument about leaving someone to die.

5: Beast could've gotten help from the other x-men. Storm for instance. Where the hell were the *rest* of the x-men? For a "family" they're awfully heartless towards one another.

In UXM 348, she lashes out at him and threatens to kill him. She looked pretty evil in that moment and it was obvious that it was not her own mind acting. She was being affected by the personas she had touched in the past. Its not that hard of a stretch to beleive that she was still being affected when she left Gambit

She was coherent enough to denounce him and lie about it. People who are having a mental breakdown don't have the presence of mind to tell lies.

See also my point about her having no business on a team if she can't control herself better than that.

Again, what do these X-men ahve to do with it? I can give you Storm and Wolverine, but Colossus, Nightcrawler and Shadowcat did not even come back to the X-men until months later. They couldnt do anything about it, so I cant see how you can blame them.

Not them as individuals (though Beast could've put in a call to them I suppose), but the X-men as a whole. Jean's super telepath and has ungodly TK. Scott's a pilot. Xavier has a whole lot of money.

You said so yourself that Gambit didnt have a shirt on his back and being left in Antartica conditions is a death sentence. Realistically, if they had gone back to look for Gambit by the team the UXM returned to hte mansion, they'd be looking for a body, you know a dead one, so what was the point?

They've done searching for members against all hope before. Why not now?

The fact that Gambit survived is a miracle and he didnt do that on his own.

All the more reason i was angry he went back to the x-men and seemed to trust them again. Total BS.

And how would they find Gambit? Its a big continent and they didnt even have Cerebro at that point. OZT cleaned them out from all of their resources

Telepathy for one. In his weakened condition, Gambit's mental shields wouldn't be working.

Searching the area they left him would be another.

 

[OutcryX]

I didn't get that whole Maggot to Gen X story either. maggot was a grown man. then all of a sudden he was like Random, a kid whose mutant powers made him look older. which was BS. Maggot should have stayed on Xmen

 

[Havok83]

In X-men 45, he offers her the truth and makes it clear he wants to be honest with her and to take away the distress she was feeling.

Gambit: "I'll do whatever I can t'help you. give anythin' I got--good and bad--to make ya'hurt go away."

Rogue: "But Remy...Don't you see? You have given me all you got... an' it wasn't enough."

Gambit: Den I'll find a way t'give you more. I like where I'm goin' a whole lot more dan where I been. I wanna go there wit' you. I want you t'touch me. To be inside me again--become me--let me become you--no secrets, no shame--so dat we can get past this an' go on from here. De way I want us to-together--as one. Choice is yours."

That may be true but why does he refuse to tell her later when she comes out and asks him point blank what happened? Her mind was starting to get messed up bc his thoughts were haunting her and she needed to make sense of it all and wouldnt tell her which showed that he had a change of heart from that prior issue

They didn't *know* he was in a life-threatening position that THEY had put him in


1: Angle is understandable, but still wrong. I don't hold it against him, though.

2: Psylocke was just wrong. Saving a life is more important than "sticking by your man".

3: Joseph also took the low road. If you're a good guy, you don't leave someone to die just because you don't like them.

4: Maggot should have at least made a moral argument about leaving someone to die.

5: Beast could've gotten help from the other x-men. Storm for instance. Where the hell were the *rest* of the x-men? For a "family" they're awfully heartless towards one another.

It all goes back to finding a way to Antartica in a quick fashion which Joseph did not have. We can agree on 1 & 2. As far as 5, well I explained Storm in my previous post


[qoute]She was coherent enough to denounce him and lie about it. People who are having a mental breakdown don't have the presence of mind to tell lies.

See also my point about her having no business on a team if she can't control herself better than that.[/quote]Except she wasnt having a mental breakdown per se. Her mind was going out of wack and it only started to happen when they were in Antartica. She did have control of herself up until that pointand it was explained that losing her powers down there was what was causing those personas to start resurfacing. Thats not something she could have controled

Not them as individuals (though Beast could've put in a call to them I suppose), but the X-men as a whole. Jean's super telepath and has ungodly TK. Scott's a pilot. Xavier has a whole lot of money.

Scott almost just died! He was in no position to go flying on some mission. Jean needed to tend to her recovering husband who just had a bomb planted in his chest. They retired at that time for a reason and the X-men pretty much left them alone. Xavier was incarcerated and its not like he knew what had happened nor could he do anything about it. There wasnt much money bc his estate was going through troubles at that time and they even had Juggernaut trying to challenge what was left. One of hte main things stressed during this time was tha thte X-men did not have anything thanks to Bastion.

They've done searching for members against all hope before. Why not now?[/qoute]Again lack of resources

Telepathy for one. In his weakened condition, Gambit's mental shields wouldn't be working.

Searching the area they left him would be another.

They had no telepaths around. I explained Jean. There was Betsy but she was being loyal to hte man she loved

 

[Canemacar]

That may be true but why does he refuse to tell her later when she comes out and asks him point blank what happened? Her mind was starting to get messed up bc his thoughts were haunting her and she needed to make sense of it all and wouldnt tell her which showed that he had a change of heart from that prior issue

Maybe he was wanting to explain it all later during the trial? Maybe he was having second-thoughts about trusting her? Whatever his reasons, he DID offer her the truth earlier, and at great risk to his own health, so saying he simply lied and tried to cover it all up is a fallacy.

It all goes back to finding a way to Antartica in a quick fashion which Joseph did not have. We can agree on 1 & 2. As far as 5, well I explained Storm in my previous post

Joseph was able to assemble aircraft out of raw metal using his powers. he could've found a way to get transportation.

Except she wasnt having a mental breakdown per se. Her mind was going out of wack and it only started to happen when they were in Antartica. She did have control of herself up until that point and it was explained that losing her powers down there was what was causing those personas to start resurfacing. Thats not something she could have controled

She was having a breakdown. Just look at some of her behavior.

Scott almost just died! He was in no position to go flying on some mission. Jean needed to tend to her recovering husband who just had a bomb planted in his chest. They retired at that time for a reason and the X-men pretty much left them alone.

Scott still had the airport and the planes up there in Alaska. Plans suited to flying and landing in sub-zero temps. why couldn't they have borrowed a plane? And couldn't Jean have spared a day or two? Was X-man also bouncing around somewhere?

Xavier was incarcerated and its not like he knew what had happened nor could he do anything about it. There wasnt much money bc his estate was going through troubles at that time and they even had Juggernaut trying to challenge what was left. One of hte main things stressed during this time was tha thte X-men did not have anything thanks to Bastion.

I can understand them trying to mount a rescue and not being able to gather the resources, but to not even try? And to go on freaking picnics?

They had no telepaths around. I explained Jean. There was Betsy but she was being loyal to hte man she loved

What? Jean couldn't spend a few days trying to save a life while the x-men cared for Scott? Betsy would rather let someone die than have angel mad at her? Tell me again, who are the good guys supposed to be? You know; the heroes. The people who *aren't* ruled by apathy and self-interest.

 

[Havok83]

Joseph was able to assemble aircraft out of raw metal using his powers. he could've found a way to get transportation.

I guess btu he was really more interested in finding himself and piece his life together

She was having a breakdown. Just look at some of her behavior.

Scott still had the airport and the planes up there in Alaska. Plans suited to flying and landing in sub-zero temps. why couldn't they have borrowed a plane? And couldn't Jean have spared a day or two? Was X-man also bouncing around somewhere?

You're right they could have went to Scott for a plane. As for Jean, its only natural for anyone who has had a love one almost die to stay by their side and not want to leave it. And the X-men were never close to X-man so he wasnt really an option. Besides he was busy at the time with his own stuff in his series.

I can understand them trying to mount a rescue and not being able to gather the resources, but to not even try? And to go on freaking picnics?

You're right. We didnt see them attempt anything

What? Jean couldn't spend a few days trying to save a life while the x-men cared for Scott? Betsy would rather let someone die than have angel mad at her? Tell me again, who are the good guys supposed to be? You know; the heroes. The people who *aren't* ruled by apathy and self-interest.

They're not perfect and they've certainly made questionable decisions, this being one of them

 

[Canemacar]

I guess btu he was really more interested in finding himself and piece his life together

Don't you consider that selfish? He could've at least created the aircraft if nothing else.

You're right they could have went to Scott for a plane. As for Jean, its only natural for anyone who has had a love one almost die to stay by their side and not want to leave it.

But to save a life? Don't you think that warrants leaving someone's side for a few days?

And the X-men were never close to X-man so he wasnt really an option. Besides he was busy at the time with his own stuff in his series.

He was kinda close to Jean and Scott. They could've asked him to spend the 10 minutes it would have taken him to find and rescue Remy?

You're right. We didnt see them attempt anything

Even Rogue's retconed attempts to find him are dubious.

They're not perfect and they've certainly made questionable decisions, this being one of them

I'll say. I'll also say he's got a right to want some payback given the blatant disregard and utter callousness they acted with. I've been waiting for this visit from the Marauders since 1997.

 

[iamlegend]

I'll say. I'll also say he's got a right to want some payback given the blatant disregard and utter callousness they acted with. I've been waiting for this visit from the Marauders since 1997.

Amen. BoA was a terrible storyline as a whole, but Milligan was spot on when he had Ozy say that the X-Men didn't appreciate Gambit...

 

[Havok83]

Don't you consider that selfish? He could've at least created the aircraft if nothing else.

Of course it was but then again Joseph did not like Gambit at all. He was probably the one least upset that he was gone as Gambit made it clear that he hated him. He tried to kick his azz not much longer before this for absolutely no reason

But to save a life? Don't you think that warrants leaving someone's side for a few days?

They were both drained after everything that had happened to them. They wanted that time to themselves and to recuperate. They retired and didnt want to be involved in that life at least not for the time being. There were other X-men left around at the mansion and they expected them to handle the problems and you already established they could have but didnt

He was kinda close to Jean and Scott. They could've asked him to spend the 10 minutes it would have taken him to find and rescue Remy?

Not really, Scott and Jean didnt get close to him until after they went into retirement. By the time that happened, Gambit was already back with the X-men

I'll say. I'll also say he's got a right to want some payback given the blatant disregard and utter callousness they acted with. I've been waiting for this visit from the Marauders since 1997.

I'll be enjoying it for an entirely different reason

 

[Canemacar]

Of course it was but then again Joseph did not like Gambit at all. He was probably the one least upset that he was gone as Gambit made it clear that he hated him. He tried to kick his azz not much longer before this for absolutely no reason

"I didn't like him" isn't really a justifiable excuse. If Joseph was actually the good guy they were pushing him as, he'd have done *something*.

They were both drained after everything that had happened to them. They wanted that time to themselves and to recuperate. They retired and didnt want to be involved in that life at least not for the time being. There were other X-men left around at the mansion and they expected them to handle the problems and you already established they could have but didnt

Apathy isn't an excuse. Not for the "good guys".

Not really, Scott and Jean didnt get close to him until after they went into retirement. By the time that happened, Gambit was already back with the X-men

They got to know each other almost right away because of some familial bond they all felt (or some such nonsense).

I'll be enjoying it for an entirely different reason

What reason is that?





I hate it when they include Gambit in the big "we're a family" things they occasionally do: he's not a part of that family. No one gives a damn if he lives or dies; least of all those who should care the most. To see him go crawling back and for everyone to act as if nothing happened was a severe disappointment to me back then and the death knell of the character IMO.

 

[Havok83]

What reason is that?





I hate it when they include Gambit in the big "we're a family" things they occasionally do: he's not a part of that family. No one gives a damn if he lives or dies; least of all those who should care the most. To see him go crawling back and for everyone to act as if nothing happened was a severe disappointment to me back then and the death knell of the character IMO.

I like the idea of Gambit written as a more shady character and not the love sick fool that he's been portrayed as for the past 10 years. I will like seeing him take charge and dont mind him staging attack on the team. Hopefully theres a valid reason for why it will happen and if there is, that will make it even better. And I defiently dont want to see him crawling back. I want to see him looking out for himself

 

[BrklynsVeryOwn]

I don't see why this is even an argument of justifiable causes.

They left a man out there to DIE.

NOTHING justifies that. Especially for people who were brought up by Professor X.

He would NOT have accepted that. At All.

 

[El Bastardo]

As each day passes, Professor X is more and more of a prick. I wouldn't be so sure on that one, bucko.

 

[Canemacar]

ALL of the x-men have lost the moral highground over the years. Except for people like Apocalypse and Sinister, they're just as bad as the people they fight.

 

[OutcryX]

As each day passes, Professor X is more and more of a prick. I wouldn't be so sure on that one, bucko.

that the senility setting in. how dangerous can an uber telepath thats a senile old bastard be? extremely

 

[Valechan]

Must I point out that Endangered Species and X-Men 200 are NOT the X-Event of '07 and so this Rogue/Gambit feud is like unrelated to the topic?

 

[OutcryX]

Caliban is the death that everybody is mourning? i know that he was once part of x-force but other than that, did he have a ralationship with the guthries?

 

[Havok83]

Caliban is the death that everybody is mourning? i know that he was once part of x-force but other than that, did he have a ralationship with the guthries?

where did you get this from. Thats speculation right? Rememebr spoiler tags

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Must I point out that Endangered Species and X-Men 200 are NOT the X-Event of '07 and so this Rogue/Gambit feud is like unrelated to the topic?

Good reminder. ES kicks it off though right?

 

[OutcryX]

where did you get this from. Thats speculation right? Rememebr spoiler tags

pure speculation. didnt mean to ruin anyone's appetite

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Must I point out that Endangered Species and X-Men 200 are NOT the X-Event of '07 and so this Rogue/Gambit feud is like unrelated to the topic?

Good point. t:

Kinda why I've stayed away from this one for the past two days or so.

I rather had the impression Beast, Emma and Cyke would play big parts...?

 

[JewishHobbit]

Okay, so I'm trying to get my timelines together here... Endangered Species and the big crossover of '07. Chronologically... where are they are in comparison with Astonishing? Astonishing's story has been running for so long that I've lost track of where it's supposed to fall. Originally it was the same time as the rest, then I think Post House of M, then I think it was pre-civil war, then post civil war (I think) and now I'm lost as to where it's supposed to fall. Can anyone tell me where it is and where it will be come the crossover?

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Can't help you there buddy. I have no clue when Torn is occurring.

 

[Havok83]

Okay, so I'm trying to get my timelines together here... Endangered Species and the big crossover of '07. Chronologically... where are they are in comparison with Astonishing? Astonishing's story has been running for so long that I've lost track of where it's supposed to fall. Originally it was the same time as the rest, then I think Post House of M, then I think it was pre-civil war, then post civil war (I think) and now I'm lost as to where it's supposed to fall. Can anyone tell me where it is and where it will be come the crossover?

its been stated that nothing thats occuring currently in the X-books is ahead of AXM. That arc is supposedly in the future. I tend to ignore it and just read it as its own seperate continuity. Makes things much easier