The All Things Flash Thread. - Part 2

[Detective Conan]

I think it had some effect. I don't think it's the silver bullet that killed all these movies that are flopping, but I do think it hurt them

Do you think it’s the right call for Gunn to reboot? Because I am aware the DCEU has its fans and all, but I’m not sure how much people are aware that Gunn is resetting things.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Do you think it’s the right call for Gunn to reboot? Because I am aware the DCEU has its fans and all, but I’m not sure how much people are aware that Gunn is resetting things.

The reboot is the right call. I don't know if announcing it with 4 movies still to be released was wise. But the reboot in itself I think is the right call. The DCEU has been trying to fix itself from the beginning and was just running in circles. There isn't any 1 thing that sank The Flash here. It was a large combo of many factors that contributed to its downfall. But just on the reboot alone, I think in making it common knowledge, it divorced the hardcores from caring and they didn't give this good WOM as a result. But again, that alone isn't enough to sink the movie. But it certainly doesn't help when everyone knows it's a dead franchise walking.

Now that said, I am not in love with Superman Legacy having a bunch of other supers in it. Nor do I think using any past actors is a good call. If it were me doing this, I would be doing solos about Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, GL, and Aquaman that have very little if any connective tissue and then do Justice League where they team up and do a thing. All new everything to give it a fresh start. I don't think throwing in a bunch of side heroes like Guy Gardner or Hawgirl into your first movie in New DC is wise.

But that's another discussion.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

But when I watched this movie, I saw a good movie in here. It just got buried by so much stuff.

Yeah, it absolutely has the basic elements of what you'd expect from a great CBM, more than a film like Elektra or Ghost Rider ever had... but the baffling decision to go as far as they did with the humor, the questionable CG and the cameos helped make the movie a prime example of what people hate about superhero flicks... so much so that I think people are willfully overstating it's problems to the point of drowning out any of the good elements the film has. People talk about it like it's a Morbius-level disaster, but it's got too much going for it to get lumped in with things like that.

I think, with another pass in the editing room, you clear up enough of the film's problems that it's strengths become more obvious to casual observers... but let's face it, between the film's flaws and the controversy around Miller, the film never really had a chance. Especially not when WB decided to get desperate with the marketing. And unless Miller genuinely has an RDJ-level turnaround in the public eye, the film will never get a reappraisal. Not that it would matter if it did.

Eh. What's done is done.

 

[kguillou]

Ok so rewatching this now, and im for sure enjoying and appreciating it more than the first time. There are legit GREAT elements about this movie and the story is solid but this rewatch solidified the #1 i chaffed against the first time and that im still chaffing against: Ezra.

Ezra is such a complicated actor (and im speaking solely as an actor). At times, Ezra can really bring gravitas and genuine emotion and others…they’re annoying AF. Heres the thing, i didnt mind Ezra in Justice League, they seemed to mesh well with Gal, Ben, Fisher and Mamoa. But when Ezra is the star of the show its a bit much and their manic zaniness is offputting and takes me out of the movie and frankly gives me a headache. Its just dialed too high a pitch.

When its not bogged down in goofy comedy, seeing the older/younger brother dynamic between the two Barry’s can be endearing….but its just too bogged down in the silliness. If this were Grant Gustin or Tom Holland or some other actor, i think another actor could have REALLY made the older/younger Barry scenes sing while still being genuinely funny without being goofy. Ezra is good in an ensemble but cannot headline a movie, plain and simple.

 

[Herolee10]

Still don't understand why they didn't just use archive footage for the speed force sequences. They had no issues with using audio files from YouTube videos.

 

[Mani-Man]

The Flash for me is kind of a shame. I honestly think this movie could have been good, but too many things bogged this movie down. Bad SFX, the lead actor and his million problems that I couldn't ignore and actively made me want it to fail, the general disfunction of the DCEU and the reboot announcement, etc. But when I watched this movie, I saw a good movie in here. It just got buried by so much stuff. I hope Flash gets another chance. Preferably with Wally as Flash next time since I like Wally more than Barry

I feel like that is the problem with the last few DC movies.
Good movies buried by too much stuff that was going against them, with the main thing being the messy DCEU situation.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

makes you wonder how the movie would have done had it was release on the original date...

time didn't do this movie much justice

 

[Mani-Man]

makes you wonder how the movie would have done had it was release on the original date...

time didn't do this movie much justice

That for sure, several directors, writers, studio bosses...that the movie itself works on a ground level...is a wonder.
You would think after all this, the movie would be more messy on its own, but it really isnt.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I liked it a lot, but I do believe it could have been truly great.

 

[kguillou]

I liked it a lot more on second rewatch, the movie's for sure got issues though. Miller should have been recast, I honestly believe another more charismatic less annoying actor would have turned this into a completely different film. Miller is GOOD when they're being dramatic (the ending sequence with his mother is A+ material) but Miller's goofiness sinks a lot of scenes.

Also, and this is 100% on Muschietti, the CGI completely doomed this movie. On social media all anyone talks about from this movie is the bad cgi and the movie's become a laughing stock because of it. If James Wan had helmed this he would've made the VFX look beautiful and made sure the cameos looked GOOD. I do believe it was a deliberate style choice but Muschietti s*** the bed with that creative decision, completely.

But the movie's heart is in the right place, it just trips over itself several times when its trying to run and gets in its own way. Keaton and Calle save the film completely and there are some genuinely really cool action sequences worth rewatching over and and over.

 

[MadVillainy]

watch the language in the tweet, friend.

I enjoyed the cameos but yeah they ultimately were pointless. What would have been much more ambitious would have been if the cameos actually participated in the 3rd act battle. Like if Barry was able to recruit them or something. Just imagine Reeve and Keaton fighting side by side. THAT would have been awesome.

Feel that would've been mad weird, arguably distasteful, with Reeve being dead

 

[kguillou]

I'm just saying, if youre gonna go for it then go for it, make the cameos mean something and have them contribute in some way. Like the way the handled that character in ghostbusters Afterlife, which I thought was very tastefully done.

 

[MadVillainy]

I'm just saying, if youre gonna go for it then go for it, make the cameos mean something and have them contribute in some way. Like the way the handled that character in ghostbusters Afterlife, which I thought was very tastefully done.

I haven't seen Afterlife so I can't comment on that but I assume you mean Harold Ramis.

But I think there are better things to do than bring back dead actors in CGI form and using AI for their voices just to put them in a superhero movie. At least when it's not needed. Didn't like it in Rogue One either. I mean if the family is fine with it and they get paid? Cool. Still I just think it's weird and unnecessary

If it's needed like Nancy Marchand in the Sopranos in the beginning of season 3 then I get it even if it looks bad

 

[kguillou]

Yeah its all in execution and of course if the family’s of said actor/actress approve. And for the record, i know Ramis’ “appearance” in Afterlife was controversial as well and some were not ok with it on principle but IMO i thought it was done with good intentions and tastefully. But its a very delicate thing, so I get it.

 

[DyeLorean]

At the end of the day, the movie didn't earn the cameos. They don't add anything substantial and, upon further examination, they really don't make sense. It became more distracting than anything else.

 

[MadVillainy]

At the end of the day, the movie didn't earn the cameos. They don't add aything substantial and, upon further examination, they really don't make sense. It became more distracting than anything else.

And this is my problem with 99% of Multiverse cameos and roles. It's just a cheap trick and a lot of times just random and unearned

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[Herolee10]

Am I the only one that finds it weird how this film had several CGI Supermen making cameos and not one from the actual Flash actors?

 

[DarkKnight88]

Am I the only one that finds it weird how this film had several CGI Supermen making cameos and not one from the actual Flash actors?

Well, problem is Flash never had any iconic actors who've played him. Brandon Routh and Tom Welling didn't make an appearance as Superman for that reason lol

 

[kguillou]

I'll say this about the movie, it gave me one genuine moment of joyful bliss that I'll never forget: that moment in the batcave where Keaton emerges in the suit, the camera panning up to him, the Elfman theme swelling and him saying "I'm BATMAN," made my entire theater erupted in applause and I was smiling ear to ear. Even though I had seen that moment in the trailers dozens of times, it was somehow even better in the finished film and made it all worth the experience. If nothing else, the movie pulled off Keaton's return perfectly IMO.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I'll say this about the movie, it gave me one genuine moment of joyful bliss that I'll never forget: that moment in the batcave where Keaton emerges in the suit, the camera panning up to him, the Elfman theme swelling and him saying "I'm BATMAN," made my entire theater erupted in applause and I was smiling ear to ear. Even though I had seen that moment in the trailers dozens of times, it was somehow even better in the finished film and made it all worth the experience. If nothing else, the movie pulled off Keaton's return perfectly IMO.

We Brits don't often cheer in the cinema, but there was a loud, collective 'Yesssss!!!!' when he said that!

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well, problem is Flash never had any iconic actors who've played him. Brandon Routh and Tom Welling didn't make an appearance as Superman for that reason lol

Yes, but I think a bigger problem is the cameos literally didn't need to be there at all. The movie has this dramatic exchange going in the finale, but then just stops dead for what is essentially a bunch of Batmen and Supermen. If you are going to have these cameos, they need a role in the story or to do something meaningful. Not just stop the movie dead in its tracks so it could characters could mug for the camera

 

[Vlyse]

Watched this movie once in theaters and really enjoyed it, watched it again at home and I found Ezra's Ezra-isms very, very tiring by this point.

The story/pacing felt hollow, too, with Keaton and Calle disappearing from the ending and now just one-offs in Flash's messed up altered timeline. Maybe if they really wanted to show how dangerous going back into the past was, then they should've done full-on Flashpoint.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Grant Gustin should have had a cameo in this. Dude carried the torch for almost a decade and Ezra even appeared on his show.

They could have had a moment together during the post credit tag. Instead of that idiotic scene we did get.

 

[kguillou]

Watched this movie once in theaters and really enjoyed it, watched it again at home and I found Ezra's Ezra-isms very, very tiring by this point.

The story/pacing felt hollow, too, with Keaton and Calle disappearing from the ending and now just one-offs in Flash's messed up altered timeline. Maybe if they really wanted to show how dangerous going back into the past was, then they should've done full-on Flashpoint.

Ezra really is the silver bullet that brings this movie down. In an ensemble setting, Ezra works fine, but as the lead and especially in a dual role, it is exhausting.