The All Things Flash Thread. - Part 2

Speaking strictly in terms of visuals, Zack Snyder's Justice League looked great also. Steppenwolf's cgi detail was incredible.

in MY opinion everyhting that ive seen from the trailers looks perfectly fine, I'm not a cgi stickler though, as long as its not distractingly bad (like some of She Hulk's cgi) i usually dont care.
 
Now will Sasha stay as Supergirl or be an Elseworlds with Keaton.
 
For those who have seen it, is the CGI really as bad as some are saying?

To me it looked like every other CBM. I havent seen one that really has good visuals.

What films do you think are good so I can compare?

I'm always curious when the CGI or VFX card is played in reviews of CBMs. Bar the so cheap it's hard to ignore situations like Quantamania, it's not something I've ever been overly concerned with. That's weird I know but special effects have never really been the draw for me with CBMs. I've always been more engaged with the characters, acting and story told on a grand scale.

Anyway to sum up my rambling, it's never been a deal breaker for me as long as it's not distractingly bad.
 
Speaking strictly in terms of visuals, Zack Snyder's Justice League looked great also. Steppenwolf's cgi detail was incredible.

in MY opinion everyhting that ive seen from the trailers looks perfectly fine, I'm not a cgi stickler though, as long as its not distractingly bad (like some of She Hulk's cgi) i usually dont care.
You are comparing a television show, to a 200m plus movie. This movie looks like Fortnite, which has never been a game that has been praised for it's visuals.

I'm always curious when the CGI or VFX card is played in reviews of CBMs. Bar the so cheap it's hard to ignore situations like Quantamania, it's not something I've ever been overly concerned with. That's weird I know but special effects have never really been the draw for me with CBMs. I've always been more engaged with the characters, acting and story told on a grand scale.
Anyway to sum up my rambling, it's never been a deal breaker for me as long as it's not distractingly bad.
We've seen the trailers. These are so cheap, it's hard to ignore. Quantumania looked awful, but clearly better then this in the CGI department.
To me it looked like every other CBM. I havent seen one that really has good visuals.

What films do you think are good so I can compare?
You haven't seen one comic book movie with good visuals? Not one?
 
Speaking strictly in terms of visuals, Zack Snyder's Justice League looked great also. Steppenwolf's cgi detail was incredible.

in MY opinion everyhting that ive seen from the trailers looks perfectly fine, I'm not a cgi stickler though, as long as its not distractingly bad (like some of She Hulk's cgi) i usually dont care.
Ok PLENTY of this looks way worse than ANYTHING in She-Hulk. And at 10x the budget. Come on now. It is actually giving Quantumania and Black Adam a run for their money in the "Ugliest CGI-Heavy Blockbuster in Recent Memory" competition, which is...a lot.
 
Honestly, given how bad a lot of Marvel CGI is, it's genuinely impressive that this movie looks like the ugliest blockbuster I can think of recently. Seeing the trailer three times on the big screen this week really makes that clear.
 
I'm always curious when the CGI or VFX card is played in reviews of CBMs. Bar the so cheap it's hard to ignore situations like Quantamania, it's not something I've ever been overly concerned with. That's weird I know but special effects have never really been the draw for me with CBMs. I've always been more engaged with the characters, acting and story told on a grand scale.

Anyway to sum up my rambling, it's never been a deal breaker for me as long as it's not distractingly bad.

Quantumania is another one i never had a problem with. Alot of people made huge cgi complaints about that movie but idk i didnt notice it or it never took me out of the movie. It looked …fine to me haha! It looked like passable. But again i think if youre already not having a good time with a movie bad cgi is probably something that sticks out to you more.
 
You are comparing a television show, to a 200m plus movie. This movie looks like Fortnite, which has never been a game that has been praised for it's visuals.


We've seen the trailers. These are so cheap, it's hard to ignore. Quantumania looked awful, but clearly better then this in the CGI department.

You haven't seen one comic book movie with good visuals? Not one?
I only really saw one bad looking shot on the trailers, though I haven't watched all of them. It's the shot of Kara flying close to the screen near the end of the first trailer.

I don't know, we're talking about the Flash here, probably one of the hardest characters to get right due to the nature of his powers. I wouldn't be surprised if the VFX is, while not awful, divisive in how they've done it.

Or maybe WB just stopped putting money into that aspect of the film, I'll have to see for myself on Wednesday.
 
I only really saw one bad looking shot on the trailers, though I haven't watched all of them. It's the shot of Kara flying close to the screen near the end of the first trailer.

I don't know, we're talking about the Flash here, probably one of the hardest characters to get right due to the nature of his powers. I wouldn't be surprised if the VFX is, while not awful, divisive in how they've done it.

Or maybe WB just stopped putting money into that aspect of the film, I'll have to see for myself on Wednesday.
This is an actual shot from the movie.

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This is an actual shot from the movie.

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Well I wasn't a big fan of that whole set up in the trailers anyway (as I said I didn't like a shot of Kara from the same battle) but it doesn't mean it's all over the film.

Admittedly when I saw this scene in the trailer I thought they would touch it up a bit before release.
 
I'm always curious when the CGI or VFX card is played in reviews of CBMs. Bar the so cheap it's hard to ignore situations like Quantamania, it's not something I've ever been overly concerned with. That's weird I know but special effects have never really been the draw for me with CBMs. I've always been more engaged with the characters, acting and story told on a grand scale.

Anyway to sum up my rambling, it's never been a deal breaker for me as long as it's not distractingly bad.

My attitude is similar.

In the trailers, I thought there were a couple of shots of Supergirl (in flight) that looked too “pristine” — and therefore artificial/fake. The rest, however, seemed serviceable. Though, perhaps I just have low standards when it comes to VFX. :O

I do think I have a reasonably good eye for (poor) CGI that attempts to depict a familiar, real-world event. E.g., if a CGI car crash seems to have wonky “mass,” “physics” or “inertia,” this is a dead giveaway. Reason being: audiences have seen many actual/live-action car crashes in movies and can make the comparison. OTOH, I have no idea what a super speedster (or the fantastical “speed force”) should look like in real life. So I tend to grant benefit-of-the-doubt; I’m more willing to suspend my disbelief.

I also think it can be a tad unfair to grab a still frame from an otherwise dynamic/frenetic sequence and subject it to minute analysis. For instance, here’s a still frame from Ben-Hur; and you can see that the CGI rendering of Chuck Heston’s face is a little dodgy. But played at normal speed, Chuck looks fine.

90


(I kid, of course.:cwink:)
 
Quantumania is another one i never had a problem with. Alot of people made huge cgi complaints about that movie but idk i didnt notice it or it never took me out of the movie. It looked …fine to me haha! It looked like passable. But again i think if youre already not having a good time with a movie bad cgi is probably something that sticks out to you more.

I suppose where I'm coming from on Quantamania is that after awhile, all the static images does become a bit bothersome, when the story is meant to be displaying such a spectacle from beginning to end.

It's different for something like Infinity War where the spectacle unfolding is relentless, and is matched by the VFX; I don't think that happened with Quantamania.

I don't think Flash should have that problem as there should plenty of scenes in a real setting.
 
There used to be a time where CGi was inserted into real backgrounds and environments, and the effect was pretty good for a while.
The thing is nowadays everything is CGi. They just can't fool the eye. We know what's going on, we've been trained.
 
I do think I have a reasonably good eye for (poor) CGI that attempts to depict a familiar, real-world event. E.g., if a CGI car crash seems to have wonky “mass,” “physics” or “inertia,” this is a dead giveaway. Reason being: audiences have seen many actual/live-action car crashes in movies and can make the comparison. OTOH, I have no idea what a super speedster (or the fantastical “speed force”) should look like in real life. So I tend to grant benefit-of-the-doubt; I’m more willing to suspend my disbelief.

I also think it can be a tad unfair to grab a still frame from an otherwise dynamic/frenetic sequence and subject it to minute analysis. For instance, here’s a still frame from Ben-Hur; and you can see that the CGI rendering of Chuck Heston’s face is a little dodgy. But played at normal speed, Chuck looks fine.

I completely understand your point of view, but I'm not sure people who have a problem with CGI here are really talking about that. In any case, I know I don't.

It's not about how they choose to "show" a superpower effect, but how the image is assembled from a technical point of view.
If a character looks like rubber, that's a shame... but it's even worse if you can tell that the wall behind him doesn't exist, then the floor, then that the lighting doesn't match, and so on. And this is where I'm personally taken out of the movie, even if the story is great. It's just too clumsy looking, "ugly".
What I find particularly unsatisfying in the trailer are the desert shots. Obviously, all the assets (heroes, vehicles, background) are taken from different sources but that's the idea : it shouldn't be that obvious.
I really think (perhaps wrongly) that just some touch up on levels, colorimetry, etc., could improve certain things. Even if it's just to accentuate the stylization that, at some point, can sometimes help sell a wonky shot.

It's also specifically because it looks so "unfinished" to me that I find it all a bit infuriating, as there was still time to fine-tune certain things between the trailers and the release. But at the same time, as some CGI artists say: in the end, it all depends on the director's choice.
So maybe it's just what Muschietti likes...

There used to be a time where CGi was inserted into real backgrounds and environments, and the effect was pretty good for a while.
The thing is nowadays everything is CGi. They just can't fool the eye. We know what's going on, we've been trained.

All of this.

We have a saying in French that "too much choice kills choice".
I always come back to the making of Jurassic Park. Because back then VFX were supposed to be done with time-consuming techniques like stop motion, sequences like the raptor chase in the kitchen were "locked" at the storyboard stage. They made sure that every shot, every image composition, etc. was as efficient as possible very early on in the process to be sure not wasting anyone time or money.
I (modestly) think if things were still done this way, we'd probably see a lot less unnecessary CGI sets (it's a shame to render things you can find on location or build, and studio have enough money for that) and, at least, the CGI artists would know from the start where they were going without having to radically change the design every month, etc.
 
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Here are three reviews from Ecran Large, one of France's leading film media.
As a diclaimer, the superheroic genre here has been decried for years for abandoning its originality in favor of a quasi-industrial production of films and a relatively empty metatextual drift (a point of view I share). That being said, I wasn't expecting this level of rejection :

"A long, slow, ugly disaster to watch in slow motion, like someone falling down the stairs for 2 hours 24 minutes. And a vertiginous pop culture object, which seems to recount and even celebrate the chaos of the superhero industry in a kind of kamikaze carnival."

"The superheroic snake is biting its tail so hard that it's content to devitalize the icons of yesterday and the remnants of a drifting extended universe. The Flash alone seems to sign the end of a genre that no longer has anything to say, except by embracing the most putassive and empty intertextuality. And how ugly it is!"

"The pitiful post-generic scene sums up The Flash's status perfectly: the terminal stage of a genre that cannibalizes itself until it resembles nothing more than a rough, hideous collage of digital fetishes, increasingly disembodied as reshoots and other rewrites go by. Talk about a renaissance."

And here's one from ComicBlog, which is, well, a fairly big news site about comics :

"The score of 2.5/5 here is not the only question of the quality of The Flash. Beyond its technical aspects (choppy script, awful visuals, convincing casting despite writing flaws), the project is also the perfect synthesis of everything that's wrong with superhero cinema, with its studio's own history, and indeed screams to its audience that this part of the entertainment industry needs to reinvent itself (or disappear for a while?). Perhaps we should go and see it, as a witness to an accident for which we'd like to go and rescue one thing or another. In all honesty, after almost ten years of waiting, it's almost a miracle that The Flash is what it is today - or even that the movie came out at all. Certainly, there's another reality where the film, written and directed by Phil Lord and Chris Miller, and released in 2018, certainly looked better. If anyone can take us there... ?"

So... Yep.
 
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I just saw across the Spiderverse on Tuesday. To those who have seen both the Flash and Spiderverse, which one is better? I think it’s hard to compare a cartoon to live action but I saw some reviews that champion Spiderverse and take apart the Flash with the comparisons.
 
I just saw across the Spiderverse on Tuesday. To those who have seen both the Flash and Spiderverse, which one is better? I think it’s hard to compare a cartoon to live action but I saw some reviews that champion Spiderverse and take apart the Flash with the comparisons.

I haven't seen both, and while I enjoyed Across the Spiderverse a lot, that first hour was rough for me. So much dialogue coming at you so quickly, no room to breathe from scene to scene. The last hour though... was fantastic to me.

I am curious of the comparison of both of these films as well.
 
I haven't seen both, and while I enjoyed Across the Spiderverse a lot, that first hour was rough for me. So much dialogue coming at you so quickly, no room to breathe from scene to scene. The last hour though... was fantastic to me.

I am curious of the comparison of both of these films as well.
I thought the same as you about Spiderverse. Good movie but it had some issues. I just have a feeling the comparisons are more bad DC for promoting Ezra and great for Marvel because Spiderverse has diversity. Campea has both films as his favorites for the year so far but you can tell his issues with Ezra affects his opinion of the movie.
 
I thought the same as you about Spiderverse. Good movie but it had some issues. I just have a feeling the comparisons are more bad DC for promoting Ezra and great for Marvel because Spiderverse has diversity. Campea has both films as his favorites for the year so far but you can tell his issues with Ezra affects his opinion of the movie.

Yeah, if you're including Ezra's actions outside the movie in your review and docking points off for it, the review should be discredited. Seperate the art from the artist is what I've heard for years...

And I get people not seeing this movie for his actions, but if you're going to give an official review on the movie and can't get past what Ezra did, then I don't think it's fair for the movie. But that's just me.
 
Yeah, if you're including Ezra's actions outside the movie in your review and docking points off for it, the review should be discredited. Seperate the art from the artist is what I've heard for years...

And I get people not seeing this movie for his actions, but if you're going to give an official review on the movie and can't get past what Ezra did, then I don't think it's fair for the movie. But that's just me.
Man, I'd buy you a beer on the strength of that! Make that two! :up::up::up:
 
There used to be a time where CGi was inserted into real backgrounds and environments, and the effect was pretty good for a while.
The thing is nowadays everything is CGi. They just can't fool the eye. We know what's going on, we've been trained.

Yeah but most people find ways to ignore it. People like us do not represent the majority of moviegoers.
 
Yeah, if you're including Ezra's actions outside the movie in your review and docking points off for it, the review should be discredited. Seperate the art from the artist is what I've heard for years...

And I get people not seeing this movie for his actions, but if you're going to give an official review on the movie and can't get past what Ezra did, then I don't think it's fair for the movie. But that's just me.
You said it perfectly but now is the time for cancel culture. I am about to go zero dark thirty until I see the movie next week. I am reading the posts and different threads. The movie is gonna suffer because of the controversy.
 
Yeah, if you're including Ezra's actions outside the movie in your review and docking points off for it, the review should be discredited. Seperate the art from the artist is what I've heard for years...

And I get people not seeing this movie for his actions, but if you're going to give an official review on the movie and can't get past what Ezra did, then I don't think it's fair for the movie. But that's just me.

One reason I don't read reviews is that most reviewers have no idea what their job is anymore. They don't review the film they have to pontificate and make sure their wasted communications degree is put to good use. Online reviewers are even worse they are all hat and no cattle, just writing reviews for clicks.

The last time I honestly cared even a little bit (and I have told this story before around here) was BvS. My girlfriend and I went opening night. (before the local reviews came out) I warned her that the film was getting panned and she likely would not like it even though she enjoyed MOS. She enjoyed it and on the way home read a bunch of reviews. She turns to me in the car and says "what the heck movie did these guys watch?" I explained a lot of the criticisms and she kept reading. She then turns to me again and says "did Di$ney pay these clowns off?!" :funny: Now keep in mind she is not a geek in any way, and has zero allegiance to anything and knows nothing about the stupid Snyder Bro Wars with reviewers. (I never bought into that stuff anyways and never discussed the film or cbms with her anyways) Then after the local review dropped I had her read it, she made it a paragraph in and said "this guy never went to the movie!" because he was talking about rumors that never actually came true as if they were in the movie. After that I realized none of these clowns know what they are doing and their opinions are no more important than my own. (that reviewer was later fired for plagiarism)

I get why some people get caught up in it but to me most reviewers, especially online reviewers, come off like that game reviewer in Mythic Quest. Just Nerd Fanboys looking to get people to like them and get dem clicks. I am not going to let some manchild ruin my fun. I mean if these people are to be believed Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a good film! :barf::grin:

YMMV
 
You said it perfectly but now is the time for cancel culture. I am about to go zero dark thirty until I see the movie next week. I am reading the posts and different threads. The movie is gonna suffer because of the controversy.

I still haven't had one person that isn't part of this community bring it up even after reviews. I keep waiting because it isn't like it isn't out there but it just doesn't. I don't know if people are willfully ignorant on the subject because they are conditioned to ignore bad behavior by actors (the outrage that existed during Me Too has definitely died down) or if the film itself doesn't have enough traction to warrant that kind of discussion but honestly it is rather irksome how little I hear about it. Maybe Ezra just isn't a big enough star? If this was a sports figure the story would be everywhere. (and likely ignored by a large segment of this country because people are awful!)

I mean all of this honestly too...I don't get it. Then again most people I knew in real life had no idea about Armie Hammer either until the very end. (some probably still dont) Its almost like a parallel universe...
 

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