The All Things Flash Thread.

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So, decisions like this are, either, racist or sexist, or both. Not that maybe, just maybe, the people in charge believe that he is the right person for the job. Good to know.
 
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But, given her comments, it's pretty clear she was just talking about Hollywood in general and how someone like Grahame-Smith can get such a big/high profile film from the get-go. I mean, it's right there in the title as to what her point was. Nothing to really do with WB/DC specifically or even BMD.
But that is what Faraci's article is about, it's not about the very important white-male washing problems in Hollywood, it's about his silly anti WB/DC bias. I can't look past what his article is really about. And frankly I feel that Faraci trivializing a real issue because he doesn't like dark and serious comic book movies to be disgusting and harmful to the cause.
 
^ Which is ****ing stupid considering that the best MCU movie so far, The Winter Soldier, is a lot "darker" and more serious than the rest.
 
But that is what Faraci's article is about, it's not about the very important white-male washing problems in Hollywood, it's about his silly anti WB/DC bias. I can't look past what his article is really about. And frankly I feel that Faraci trivializing a real issue because he doesn't like dark and serious comic book movies to be disgusting and harmful to the cause.

But, the point of me posting the link wasn't on what's Faraci's opinion or the article itself. You don't think DuVernay would've brought up the director's experience (or lack of it)?
 
My fight isn't with DuVernay, I believe that her motives are totally pure. It's too bad she linked to that ****** article by that pathetic raging fanboy though. Would have been cool if she found a better article than that.
 
My fight isn't with DuVernay, I believe that her motives are totally pure. It's too bad she linked to that ****** article by that pathetic raging fanboy though. Would have been cool if she found a better article than that.

Yeah, there was moment where I thought it was best to remove the link. But, I thought, "Nah, it wouldn't really matter." My mistake.
 
You shouldn't have removed the link.

I think this is an important convo to have I just wish that it wasn't marred by something else.
 
You shouldn't have removed the link.

I think this is an important convo to have I just wish that it wasn't marred by something else.

I don't think one man's opinion/bias on a website is worth much conversation.
 
I find it tragic how often wb's decisions in this playground come under this sort of scrutiny whereas they don't so much elsewhere. A good example being the idea that they were seeking out a female director for wonder woman gasp. the tongues wagged. Who really cared that a woman was getting a job, but rather that wb wasn't simply getting the best person for the job they said. then the move is done elsewhere on two fronts; a black person for a black character, as well as a female for a female and nothing but celebration, yay for diversity.
Now we have this idea of a first time director on a big project and I'm being told it's the first time it's ever been done(or something to that end)? Just seems like folks lying in wait to editorialize any development...

Anyways, I've seen 'seasoned' folks fail at this material as much as new talent. I see it in most second sequels. I mean Campbell really hurt the most considering how baddass he can be. Some of my favorite stuff has been by (relatively)green talent. From Blade to tws and so forth. If Ridley Scott was named, I'd be just as nervous is my feeling.
 
Call me crazy, but I think the automatic claims of "white male privilege" are borderline sexist and/or racist.
 
I find it tragic how often wb's decisions in this playground come under this sort of scrutiny whereas they don't so much elsewhere. A good example being the idea that they were seeking out a female director for wonder woman gasp. the tongues wagged. Who really cared that a woman was getting a job, but rather that wb wasn't simply getting the best person for the job they said. then the move is done elsewhere on two fronts; a black person for a black character, as well as a female for a female and nothing but celebration, yay for diversity.
Now we have this idea of a first time director on a big project and I'm being told it's the first time it's ever been done(or something to that end)? Just seems like folks lying in wait to editorialize any development...

Anyways, I've seen 'seasoned' folks fail at this material as much as new talent. I see it in most second sequels. I mean Campbell really hurt the most considering how baddass he can be. Some of my favorite stuff has been by (relatively)green talent. From Blade to tws and so forth. If Ridley Scott was named, I'd be just as nervous is my feeling.
Excellent post all around sir. Regarding your opinion about experienced versus unexperienced directors, I thought the same thing. Martin Campbell is a solid journeyman director with a lot of experience and he was also dead wrong for Green Lantern. Even putting the flaccid script aside the directing was not good in that film. Campbell was dead wrong for the Green Lantern film. The important thing is whether The Flash director is right for the material not whether he has a ton of experience.
 
So, decisions like this are, either, racist or sexist, or both. Not that maybe, just maybe, the people in charge believe that he is the right person for the job. Good to know.

Well... Just because the people in charge believe someone is the right person for the job, it doesn't necessarily mean that racism and/or sexism aren't happening. I mean, that's pretty much what the "old boy network" is, right? People tend to hire people within their circles because that's who they know and get introduced to. When those circles only contain people from certain demographics, that's who gets hired, and it becomes a self reinforcing thing. It's a systemic issue, not some evil cabal sitting around a big table.

That being said, I think Faraci is a concern troll, using what is a very real problem in Hollywood as a screen behind which he's continuing his usual DC bashing. It's a distraction, and I think he's pretty disgusting for it.
 
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Only black people and dark skinned latinos counts as "People of Color" in the minds of those people
If Del Toro had remained in the JL Dark project, you can bet he would also be ignored in this like James Wan was

Not that it matters anyway. Are we going to get outraged because they chose a director who ISN'T part of a minority now? For a movie that doesn't even star a minority? What are the chances that some minority with his style was even available to "compete" with him for the job?

I also don't get the idea that representation is more important behind the scenes. A movie directed by a white guy starring a minority does much more for representation in the media than a movie starring a white guy directed by a minority (which would be the case for Flash). And the DCEU is fine in this regard.
And it's the media that matters for the masses, not the industry.

In any case, I never saw any of his movies, but I like the fact that they are going with a more "comedic" creative team.
 
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Funny, I don't remember this kind of outrage when Fox hired a white guy who has directed nothing but title sequences to do Deadpool or when a white guy who had only directed TV projects was brought on to REPLACE a woman Marvel jettisoned for Thor: The Dark World.

While it's true that Hollywood needs more diversity both in front of and behind the camera and it's a little concerning that WB might entrust a potential blockbuster to a first-time director, so much of this outrage is just being brought on by asshats like Faraci who just want to tear down WB/DC for everything they do because Marvel uses brighter colors and its actors smile more and sh**.

And let's give Seth Grahame-Smith some credit here. Yeah, he's a first time director and yes, the MOVIE Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter sucked. But the book and his other big hit, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies were well-received. If everyone was willing to give the Russo Brothers a second shot after You, Me and Dookie, then I think we can give Grahame-Smith a chance IF he even lands the job.
 
Regardless of his race, he must have seriously impressed Warner Brothers somehow to land this. Has me a little more excited for Beetlejuice 2.
 
We are aware that this is not the first time a studio in charge of producing superhero films has been criticized for something similar to this, correct? Just making sure we're all on the same page, I feel like I'm missing something with how quickly some are rushing to WB's defense. This isn't a new thing.
 
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I'm not rushing to anyone's defense. I just think that all studios should be called out for the practice. Some of the articles calling out the practice are perfectly fine and don't have silly fanboy tinges and others like Birthmoviesdeath are only calling out WB for the practice because of some made up blood feud. I don't appreciate some people's selective outrage about a serious issue and bringing up that issue for childish reasons.
 
Patty Jenkins was hired to direct Wonder Woman on April 15. Two months later, on June 23rd, Jon Watts is hired to direct Spider-Man. Here's Devin's article:

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/06/23/tom-holland-is-spider-man-jon-watt-to-direct

The second reboot of Spider-Man in five years' time, with yet another white male director, and he's excited. No mention at all of Marvel dropping the ball in light of WB hiring a female director for a major superhero tentpole.

But now, WB hires an untested white male director for The Flash, shortly after reports come out that Marvel may be hiring its first non-white director in eight years, and it's a subject of "intense scrutiny."

It bears repeating. Marvel Studios has been making films since 2008. We are in year seven. They have made twelve films. All directed by white men. Of the ten remaining Phase Three films, six of them have directors officially attached. All of them white men.


WB makes Man of Steel with Snyder. They bring him back for Batman v Superman, because he's been chosen to be the "architect" of the DCU and they wanted him to lay the groundwork for what's to come. Then they bring in David Ayer for Suicide Squad, and he goes on to assemble one of the most racially diverse casts ever seen in a superhero movie. Then, two years and three films into their plan, they hire Michelle MacLaren for Wonder Woman. And when things didn't work out with her, they selected another woman to replace her. They remained committed to that film having a female filmmaker - a point empathize by Deb Snyder not too long ago. Then James Wan, a filmmaker with Chinese heritage, is hired to direct Aquaman.

But WB is the one on blast here? Seriously? I mean Christ. Did Devin even criticize Marvel for taking this long to accomplish this? Or did he already have his pants dropped to the floor by the start of the first sentence?

That's my issue with Devin's article.

I agree with the main issue. Hollywood is in dire need of diversity amongst its filmmakers. Devin could have made this point just fine in the article (and many other articles beside it). But he just couldn't help himself by working in a shout-out to Marvel in there, as if them hiring a non-white director after so many years and so many films completely trumps everything WB has done for the sake of diversity in less than half the time and half the films.
 
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His lack of criticism towards Marvel for the same practice points to his article being nothing more than concern trolling. Period.
 
We are aware that this is not the first time a studio in charge of producing superhero films has been criticized for something similar to this, correct? Just making sure we're all on the same page, I feel like I'm missing something with how quickly some are rushing to WB's defense. This isn't a new thing.

Yes, we all know this, but that doesn't change the fact that Faraci is ****wit.
 
On the topic of the choice, this was kind of left field. But I do like some of his work, so hey.
 
Yes, we all know this, but that doesn't change the fact that Faraci is ****wit.
Patty Jenkins was hired to direct Wonder Woman on April 15. Two months later, on June 23rd, Jon Watts is hired to direct Spider-Man. Here's Devin's article:

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/06/23/tom-holland-is-spider-man-jon-watt-to-direct

The second reboot of Spider-Man in five years' time, with yet another white male director, and he's excited. No mention at all of Marvel dropping the ball in light of WB hiring a female director for a major superhero tentpole.

But now, WB hires an untested white male director for The Flash, shortly after reports come out that Marvel may be hiring its first non-white director in eight years, and it's a subject of "intense scrutiny."


It bears repeating. Marvel Studios has been making films since 2008. We are in year seven. They have made twelve films. All directed by white men. Of the ten remaining Phase Three films, six of them have director officially attached. All of them white men.


WB makes Man of Steel with Snyder. They bring him back for Batman v Superman. Then they bring in David Ayer for Suicide Squad, who goes on to assemble one of the most racially diverse casts ever seen in a superhero movie. Then, two years and three films into their plan, they hire Michelle MacLaren for Wonder Woman. And when things didn't work out, they selected another woman to replace her. Then James Wan, a filmmaker with Chinese heritage, is hired to direct Aquaman.

But WB is the one on blast here? Seriously?

That's my issue with Devin's article.

I agree. Hollywood is in dire need of diversity amongst its filmmakers. Devin could have made this point just fine in the article (and many other articles beside it). But he just can't help himself by working in a little pat on the back for Marvel in there, as if them hiring a non-white director after so many years and so many films completely trumps everything WB has done for the sake of diversity in less than half the time and half the films.

And therein lies the confusion, I didn't know about Faraci's article until now. As someone who is regularly called out for being a "Marvel shill": he's an embarrassment. We don't claim him.

I'm not rushing to anyone's defense. I just think that all studios should be called out for the practice. Some of the articles calling out the practice are perfectly fine and don't have silly fanboy tinges and others like Birthmoviesdeath are only calling out WB for the practice because of some made up blood feud.

From what I can tell, all studios have been called out in recent years for this (save for Faraci with Marvel, but as I said, I ignore him). Hell I remember reading multiple people on various websites getting angry about Benedict Cumberbatch being cast as Dr. Strange because he was a white guy, even though the character is a white guy.

Here's what I say every time something like this happens, because I rarely see these points brought up, and I don't know why:

1) These characters and the universes they inhabit were, for the most part, created back in a time when women voting was relatively new and blacks and whites still used separate water fountains. Needless to say, the books as a whole were pretty white-washed. I'm not excusing that or saying it's fine, but it was the state of the country, and white males were largely the only superheroes that would sell books. So naturally, there will be a lot of white male superheroes still around today.

2) These characters and the universes they inhabit were, for the most part, created back in a time when there were only men working in the comic book industry, predominately white men at that.

3) These characters and the universes they inhabit were, for the most part, created back in a time when the audience for superheroes was, for the most part, prepubescent boys.

4) I would argue it's a problem with Hollywood as whole, which is a whole other discussion. I don't know exact numbers, but I'm sure if you took every director in hollywood working today, an overwhelming majority of them would be male, a lot of them white males at that.

Given all of this, it doesn't shock me that so many of the film makers involved with this stuff are white guys. It's an unfortunate residual effect of where our country was when these stories and characters were birthed.
Again, before anyone starts writing out a long rebuttal telling me I'm being insensitive or reductive, I'm not excusing this or saying that it's just fine the way it is. Things in the industry obviously need to change.
The arguments I just listed above probably worked better when I was discussing Marvel's over-reliance on white males as their lead characters, but I feel that it's worth bringing up here in some capacity as well. All I'm positing is, let's understand where we have been to understand where we are, so we can course correct and go somewhere better.
To bring it all home... this is why I'm not ready to condemn WB for going with a white guy on their Flash movie, especially in light of their other recent creative choices regarding diversity in their DC slate.
 
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That's a fair post. I definitely understand why things are the way they are and I think it should change of course.

And I don't think that there is anything wrong with being a Marvel or DC shill as long as one doesn't lie about facts. Shill away I say.
 
Since you brought up numbers, Flint, I'll just post this from last year for whatever it's worth:
infographic-women-directors.jpg
 
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