The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Amazing Spider-Man 2 General Discussion - - - - - - Part 15

[Picard Sisko]

From where are you getting this?
Yeah we saw a different version in the trailers but there is not way to tell that he told him about his father or they bond in that scene

Not 'all of that',just that 2 minute scene in the sewer



Initially Marc though this was gonna end a trilogy
He thought of introducing MJ in TASM2,her role was just for 'intoduction'
So when he kills of Gwen in #3,fans are already aware about MJ

But since now Sony announced 4 movies,he has adequate time to space things out and introduce and use MJ later.

So he probably cut of MJ to give himself breathing space in this movie,concentrating on other things and also shortening the runtime

 

[Ultimatehero]

yes i thought gwen would die but know i have second thoughts seeing as tho mj has been takinn out she would have died also if tasm4 hadnt gotten an early greenlite

Are you saying would have died in ASM 3 or still ASM 2 and that they've just changed the ending?

 

[Picard Sisko]

The book always based off of the script. The scene they gave us in exchange for it was cut a lot shorter and not as intimate. Aspects still remain, I'm pretty sure there were even some lines from it in the trailers and TV spots. It was there, just like the whole exchange about Peter's parents in the sewers it was deleted last minute.

It's this whole thing about Webb that doesn't give me much faith in this guy. He doesn't sound like he has a game plan. He pitched ASM as being the story about Peter finding and being enticed about the truth of his parents. He had that in ASM. Then at the last minute he deleted all of that with only leaving strands of it remaining. If people say "well, he didn't know if he was going to get ASM 2." So, how does that change things? It all still ended with Peter not knowing, but originally? A lot more emphasis was placed upon it rather than it just fading away. And because of that, I just find it seriously hard pressed to believe that he has a plan.

Also to go further -- he didn't tell Peter about his father, he told him more about his father as in what he was like. Here, we didn't even get that.

Wait, what book are you even talking about?

I still have faith that Webb has a game plan. People said the same thing about the writers of LOST... "they are just making it up as it goes along."

I'm pretty sure Webb has an idea of where he wants to go. Of course, along the way, things change in between.

 

[Ultimatehero]

truthfully imo this film is not setting itself up with a alot of hope. with rumored changes to the source, the possible changes in a pivotal story and now them cutting out estabished characters after scene are shot.

the first one while not amazing was enjoyable so maybe this one will be as well

Exactly, if this was any other person behind this - I would have let it slide. But, he got the "easy pass" with ASM 1 "oh, he just got rid of this and that to have that be in the next one." Now that's happening again? "Oh, he just got rid of MJ to have her be in the next one." It's the same exact excuse. As said, this guy has a history with these films of doing this. It didn't work out that well the first time. And I have huge doubts he'll be able to pull it off the second time. He just doesn't strike me as a guy with a plan after ASM1. And now this recent news of MJ just sounds like a repeat of what happened with ASM1. I thought he learned from that film, but he seems to be starting to make the same mistakes all over again.

@ Piccard, obviously the novelization. The scene in the kitchen, that was obviously re-shot, was just a very condensed version of the same exact scene.

 

[amazingly atiba]

he has a plan thats going to expand past the first and second films im sure he knew he was gonna get a 2nd because they wouldnt reboot again rethink youre info ^ultimate hero

 

[amazingly atiba]

tasm2 changed ending maybe idk details on this plot line are still somwhat vague

 

[Picard Sisko]

Exactly, if this was any other person behind this - I would have let it slide. But, he got the "easy pass" with ASM 1 "oh, he just got rid of this and that to have that be in the next one." Now that's happening again? "Oh, he just got rid of MJ to have her be in the next one." It's the same exact excuse. As said, this guy has a history with these films of doing this. It didn't work out that well the first time. And I have huge doubts he'll be able to pull it off the second time. He just doesn't strike me as a guy with a plan after ASM1. And now this recent news of MJ just sounds like a repeat of what happened with ASM1. I thought he learned from that film, but he seems to be starting to make the same mistakes all over again.

@ Piccard, obviously the novelization. The scene in the kitchen, that was obviously re-shot, was just a very condensed version of the same exact scene.

We still don't know why a lot of scenes were deleted in TASM1, so stop assuming. A lot of plots were intentionally left unresolved for sequels, they weren't taken out during production.

And what novelization? They never released an official novelization for The Amazing Spider-Man.

 

[amazingly atiba]

marc has a plan he knows what hes doing just because seens got cut doesnt mean you should jump to conclusions @ ultimate hero

 

[DigificWriter]

UltimateHero, you don't sound like you like Webb very much, so why are you even following this franchise?

 

[Ultimatehero]

tasm2 changed ending maybe idk details on this plot line are still somwhat vague

Exactly, he knew he was going to get a second. So with that knowledge, why did fans excuse him with "oh, he just deleted that to save it for the next one." And it's the same excuse now with MJ, "oh, he just deleted that to save it for the next one." On ASM3 are we going to also have, "oh, he just deleted that to save it for the next one." Fool me one, shame on me - fool me twice, I'm just not buying into it.

And it's really rather simple and fundamental that what you are proposing would never happen. As said, in order to have a death you don't just plop it in there. Nobody does that. You have themes, arcs, foreshadowing, and everything leading into pivotal moments. Films aren't just random events that happen, then it would feel out of place.

 

[FN Spider-man]

Some of you don't know exactly why and should really stop assuming, its interesting how some people come right out of the wood work to criticize this movie that none of you know anything about

 

[Spiderdevil]

The book always based off of the script. The scene they gave us in exchange for it was cut a lot shorter and not as intimate. Aspects still remain, I'm pretty sure there were even some lines from it in the trailers and TV spots. It was there, just like the whole exchange about Peter's parents in the sewers it was deleted last minute.

The novelisation expands upon a lot things
And the only thing we heard in the trailer was 'How did you get that?' or something like that,which was in the reshot version aswell
And they sometimes shoot multiple versions of the same scene and decide later which one fits better.
The two scenes were probably the same except that he writes on blackboard in one and a tissue paper in another

It's this whole thing about Webb that doesn't give me much faith in this guy. He doesn't sound like he has a game plan. He pitched ASM as being the story about Peter finding and being enticed about the truth of his parents. He had that in ASM. Then at the last minute he deleted all of that with only leaving strands of it remaining. If people say "well, he didn't know if he was going to get ASM 2." So, how does that change things? It all still ended with Peter not knowing, but originally? A lot more emphasis was placed upon it rather than it just fading away. And because of that, I just find it seriously hard pressed to believe that he has a plan.

I somewhat agree to that
They false advertised the 'Untold story' and 'Secrets' thingy which was never there
It was there way of screaming 'THIS FILM IS DIFFERENT FROM THE 2002 MOVIE'

There is a whole lot difference in Deleting 'the untold story' part and deleting MJ
The 'Untold story' was heavily advertised,and when they removed it,they didnt remove it properly and let bits of it remain in there.That left audience dejected

While MJ is just an after thought,removing her doesnt have significant impact on the movie because she was just for introductions and doesnt figure in the plot much

 

[GuestStar2004]

Exactly, he knew he was going to get a second. So with that knowledge, why did fans excuse him with "oh, he just deleted that to save it for the next one." And it's the same excuse now with MJ, "oh, he just deleted that to save it for the next one." On ASM3 are we going to also have, "oh, he just deleted that to save it for the next one." Fool me one, shame on me - fool me twice, I'm just not buying into it.

And it's really rather simple and fundamental that what you are proposing would never happen. As said, in order to have a death you don't just plop it in there. Nobody does that. You have themes, arcs, foreshadowing, and everything leading into pivotal moments. Films aren't just random events that happen, then it would feel out of place.

Well he is the director

 

[Ultimatehero]

We still don't know why a lot of scenes were deleted in TASM1, so stop assuming. A lot of plots were intentionally left unresolved for sequels, they weren't taken out during production.

And what novelization? They never released an official novelization for The Amazing Spider-Man.

Thing is, originally all of that was there. You leave the scene in that room with the chalkboard between Connors and Peter, you leave the scene of Connors and his son possibly (the whole dynamic there was to show the past repeating itself), and the scene with Ratha at the end -- you've got as the story was originally was set-up to be in the first act. You have a conflict set-up in the first act that is never taken any further than that when in fact, it actually was.

And check Amazon.

UltimateHero, you don't sound like you like Webb very much, so why are you even following this franchise?

Because I was hoping he'd learn from the past film and be free since he wasn't restrained to having to re-tell the origins. But, he's making these deletions just like he did with ASM1. To me, it just shows the past repeating itself.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Since when has there been an "official novelization" of TASM? I've seen a graphic novel movie prelude, and a collection of comics that influenced the movie known as "Secret Origins."

 

[amazingly atiba]

ok dont follow the franchise man look he knew he was getting a tasm 2 right? foreshadowing would be mj! by the way. because you cant have both gwen and mj so thats foreshadowing right there. and he saved it for the second movie( the deleted scenes) because norman was being introduced so it would make more sense!?! and hes taking out mj because he thought he was just gunna get a trilogy but now hes getting a fourth if he knew all of this during the 1st tasm then you wouldnt be here complaining

 

[DigificWriter]

@UltimateHero: You honestly come across as someone who's constantly pulling the Screenwriting 101 card without actually understanding much about screenwriting and serialized, slow-build storytelling, especially since you're criticizing Webb for something that is actually rather common storytelling practice.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Thing is, originally all of that was there. You leave the scene in that room with the chalkboard between Connors and Peter, you leave the scene of Connors and his son possibly (the whole dynamic there was to show the past repeating itself), and the scene with Ratha at the end -- you've got as the story was originally was set-up to be in the first act. You have a conflict set-up in the first act that is never taken any further than that when in fact, it actually was.

Other than Ratha, nothing else was really dropped. Peter searching for his parents is what sent him to Oscorp, and then the rest of the film is about him becoming Spider-Man and learning responsibility (dealing with Lizard and such). That was intended to be resolved in future films, as stated by Webb multiple times.

And check Amazon.

I have, but nothing shows up. Please send a link.

 

[Picard Sisko]

@UltimateHero: You honestly come across as someone who's constantly pulling the Screenwriting 101 card without actually understanding much about screenwriting and serialized, slow-build storytelling, especially since you're criticizing Webb for something that is actually rather common storytelling practice.

As I've said earlier, he comes off as pretentious.

When the 2002 Spider-Man film came out, they weren't sure if a sequel would actually happen or not, so they didn't plan much for the sequels. Therefore, everything was resolved within one movie.

With TASM, Sony knew sequels would indeed be made, and it gave Webb an opportunity to plan ahead and create a story arc that would resolve over multiple films. We can assume that in the second or third film, Peter will finally find his Uncle Ben's killer. I have one theory which goes back to a story arc from the comics called "The Return of the Burglar," which was the first appearance of the Black Cat. With all the rumors of Felicity Jones being cast as Felicia Hardy, who knows? Maybe it will be used for one of the future sequels.

 

[amazingly atiba]

exactly @picard

 

[SpideyFan866]

Like I said before. The cuts probably go back to the fact MJ's role was small and, in the end, it wasn't worth keeping her scenes.

This was likely due to Shailene's commitments to Divergent. They had a very small window to film her scenes for ASM2 and odds are, they know it'd be the same way for future films (at least ASM3) due to her commitment to Divergent's sequels, so they just cut Shailene's scenes and will start fresh with a new actress entering into ASM3.

This is the same situation as Jennifer Lawrence in DOFP. The only difference is, Sony isn't going to wait for Shailene like Fox did for Lawrence (a year).

 

[amazingly atiba]

correct

 

[Picard Sisko]

Like I said before. The cuts probably go back to the fact MJ's role was small and, in the end, it wasn't worth keeping her scenes.

This was likely due to Shailene's commitments to Divergent. They had a very small window to film her scenes for ASM2 and odds are, they know it'd be the same way for future films (at least ASM3) due to her commitment to Divergent's sequels, so they just cut Shailene's scenes and will start fresh with a new actress entering into ASM3.

This is the same situation as Jennifer Lawrence in DOFP. The only difference is, Sony isn't going to wait for Shailene like Fox did for Lawrence (a year).

Once again, I do agree with you. Its better that they cut her from the film when her role is minor rather than risk the chance of having to recast her in the third film.

 

[Ultimatehero]

The novelisation expands upon a lot things

And they sometimes shoot multiple versions of the same scene and decide later which one fits better.

They were different. The blackboard one was about a minute to two minutes longer. They deleted it most likely because of time restraints, hopefully.

I somewhat agree to that
They false advertised the 'Untold story' and 'Secrets' thingy which was never there
It was there way of screaming 'THIS FILM IS DIFFERENT FROM THE 2002 MOVIE'

Thing is, that WAS there, they just deleted it.

Well he is the director

He was great with 500 Days of Summer, but his decisions with ASM 1 doesn't inspire much confidence.

Since when has there been an "official novelization" of TASM? I've seen a graphic novel movie prelude, and a collection of comics that influenced the movie known as "Secret Origins."

You can look under that, it's the whole story from beginning to end with the exact dialogue from the film and everything.

foreshadowing would be mj! by the way. because you cant have both gwen and mj so thats foreshadowing right there. and he saved it for the second movie (the deleted scenes) because norman was being introduced so it would make more sense!?!

1) MJ isn't foreshadowing, that's just having another character around. THEMES and ARCS are the key here and you can't just cut one at the bud and expect the rest of the film to flow. It doesn't work that way. Gwen's fate is the exact same as on day one, and if it isn't... eh.
2) Peter still didn't get any additional information, he just got the information about the kind of man his father was and how he reminded Connors of him more in-depth. He got all of this from a co-worker and old friend of his father's in a warm way. With Norman that information wouldn't come about.

@UltimateHero: You honestly come across as someone who's constantly pulling the Screenwriting 101 card without actually understanding much about screenwriting

Everyone grab your pitch forks because the villagers are coming, so that explains why I already have writer meetings with Universal and the execs coming to me asking me what I've been working on? And when I was there as an intern - that climbed to being the script guy they want to read - I was their number one guy to look over films and make notes on the big ones. Trust me dude, I have all the experience I need and then some.

With TASM, Sony knew sequels would indeed be made, and it gave Webb an opportunity to plan ahead and create a story arc that would resolve over multiple films.

Exactly. I'm not complaining about no info being revealed. I'm complaining about how it entirely lost focus and faded away after the first half. What the screenwriter had in there? Worked. The way it came out in the theatrical? Butchered what was there. There's focus and then there's information. The focus was there. That's the conflict that ACT I set up and it got thrown out onto the editing room floor. It wasn't "oh let's save that for the sequel" -- it was there, and it was there in the same knowledge we know still, it just lost all focus that was there. And there were easily scenes in the film that could have been taken away for more focus to be set on the conflict that ACT I presented.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The MJ scenes seem more to set her character up for future, if rumour is right she drove Peter somewhere on her bike, that doesn't need to be there, where ever it was can be gotten around, then there was a scene with gwen and MJ again it would have been interesting but probably won't hold back the plot, and then the shocked MJ looking out at the car wreckage, speaks for itself

You could remove them scenes and it won't effect the final product