The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Amazing Spider-Man 2 General Discussion - - - - - - Part 15

[FN Spider-man]

Its better it happens now then later on

 

[amazingly atiba]

the info wouldnt come out specifically from norman and mj could be foreshadowing becasue her being there would mean that gwens fate is near story arks also have a part in it but that is the only thing i agree on with you. and not just being there but mj in contacts with peter

 

[amazingly atiba]

this thread is heated

 

[AF3619]

this thread is heated

we know

 

[Vid Electricz]

Wait, what book are you even talking about?

I still have faith that Webb has a game plan. People said the same thing about the writers of LOST... "they are just making it up as it goes along."

I'm pretty sure Webb has an idea of where he wants to go. Of course, along the way, things change in between.

The writers of LOST were just making it up as they went along. Did you watch the complete series? So bad. Ugh. Thanks for reminding me about that.

Drastic, last minute, fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants changes like this don't indicate a well thought out gameplan to me.

 

[Ultimatehero]

the info wouldnt come out specifically from norman and mj could be foreshadowing becasue her being there would mean that gwens fate is near story arks also have a part in it but that is the only thing i agree on with you. and not just being there but mj in contacts with peter

That doesn't mean Gwen would die in ASM2.

Point is - so much is supposed to go into a screenplay that you have to lead up to as pivotal a moment of Gwen dying. The theme for example could be Peter wanting to save everyone or not going about things responsibly but gung-ho. Peter's arc would then be doing something he's not supposed to, Gwen dies, he learns that he should have done things differently the hard way. (I'm trying to make this as general as possible).

Basically, whatever story Gwen's going to die in - you're going to have that be the central character changing point in the story. It's not just going to come falling out of the sky.

And because of that you can't have a last minute change of "Oh, Gwen's going to live now." The easiest way to explain this is -- imagine TDK if Nolan went, "oh, we've decided to keep Rachel." It's a big thing. So whatever it was from day one, with this kind of things its unmovable because everything is heading in that one direction.

By your saying MJ just being there would have been it - MJ just being there would have just been it if Gwen's death was in ASM2 or ASM3.

 

[SlamAdams]

Drastic, last minute, fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants changes like this don't indicate a well thought out gameplan to me.

But sometimes things aren't working, and you need to make a change.

 

[FN Spider-man]

well im out till things get back to normal

 

[Picard Sisko]

I don't think the deleted scenes would have really contained the "Untold Story' we were all hoping for. As people have said before, TASM is more like "The Untold Story Begins."

 

[Ultimatehero]

But sometimes things aren't working, and you need to make a change.

Thing is with something like this and the reason they gave for it, I can see them seeing that in post-production. I can see them seeing it in pre-production. I just can't believe that's all that's behind it during production itself. And that makes me beg the question that if it is that noticeable, why didn't they catch it during the scripting stage. And these scripts take MONTHS of multiple people going over every minor detail that if it was that noticeable without seeing it in the film itself -- and this isn't some budget thing that "okay, we're going to possibly be going over-budget and should cut back here" kind of thing -- it makes me beg the question of how they didn't catch this before and how much attention they were paying to it.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Everyone grab your pitch forks because the villagers are coming, so that explains why I already have writer meetings with Universal and the execs coming to me asking me what I've been working on? And when I was there as an intern - that climbed to being the script guy they want to read - I was their number one guy to look over films and make notes on the big ones. Trust me dude, I have all the experience I need and then some.

So are supposed to buy this?

 

[amazingly atiba]

you cant reference tdk when talking about this subject and i never said that gwen would die in tasm 2 because of that. what are you trying to prove anyway dude? mj is out and on for another storyboard and its probly for the best and this whole thread has spent the better part of 2 hours trying to explain somthing to u that u are just not getting

 

[Vid Electricz]

But sometimes things aren't working, and you need to make a change.

I just think it's bizarre. Is this not what the script is for? Don't they plan these things down to the minutiae beforehand knowing what/who they'll need/won't need?

Just seems weird to completely cut a whole character and their sub story/plot because it "wasn't working" and "we want to focus on gwen and peter". Really? Did you not decide that before you started shooting?

Doesn't give me a ton of faith in the guy that he knows what he's doing (especially after TASM).

 

[Picard Sisko]

Thing is with something like this and the reason they gave for it, I can see them seeing that in post-production. I can see them seeing it in pre-production. I just can't believe that's all that's behind it during production itself. And that makes me beg the question that if it is that noticeable, why didn't they catch it during the scripting stage. And these scripts take MONTHS of multiple people going over every minor detail that if it was that noticeable without seeing it in the film itself -- and this isn't some budget thing that "okay, we're going to possibly be going over-budget and should cut back here" kind of thing -- it makes me beg the question of how they didn't catch this before and how much attention they were paying to it.

It could simply have to do with the recent announcement of a fourth film.

Also, as other members mentioned, she is tied to a new film series/franchise, so its possible that they cut her from the film to avoid a recast in the third film. We don't know if there was anything actually wrong with her character in TASM script.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I don't think the deleted scenes would have really contained the "Untold Story' we were all hoping for. As people have said before, TASM is more like "The Untold Story Begins."

There's:

1) Telling the untold story
2) Telling the sense of who someone was.

# 2 was there.

Beginning - Peter finding the briefcase and wondering who his parents are and why they left him to focus on their work.
Middle - Connors warmly telling Peter what kind of man his father is, then showing that Connors is more or less a similar absent father.
Ending - Connors, Ratha, and Peter in the sewers.

That was focus. We didn't find anything else out that we didn't in the theatrical cut, but it felt a lot more focused rather than disappearing after the first act.

 

[amazingly atiba]

OMG THEY SAW IT IN THE SCRIPT BEFORE THE PRESS CONF. OF SONY!!!!! WHICH MEANS THAT THEY DIDNT KNOW THEY WOULD GET A 4TH MOVIE which means they werent planning to delete her from the movie but plans changed

 

[DigificWriter]

Making script changes during production - even substantial changes - is not unheard of, as I already pointed out with my LotR:TTT example from earlier.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Thing is with something like this and the reason they gave for it, I can see them seeing that in post-production. I can see them seeing it in pre-production. I just can't believe that's all that's behind it during production itself. And that makes me beg the question that if it is that noticeable, why didn't they catch it during the scripting stage. And these scripts take MONTHS of multiple people going over every minor detail that if it was that noticeable without seeing it in the film itself -- and this isn't some budget thing that "okay, we're going to possibly be going over-budget and should cut back here" kind of thing -- it makes me beg the question of how they didn't catch this before and how much attention they were paying to it.

100%.

To answer your last statement with a question: You did see TASM, didn't you?


But yeah, the studios, writers, directors don't pay much attention to the scripts these days. Did you see Prometheus?

 

[amazingly atiba]

was gwen not an untold story??? was oscorp not an untold story? answer that @ultimate hero his parents arnt the whole untold story

 

[Picard Sisko]

There's:

1) Telling the untold story
2) Telling the sense of who someone was.

# 2 was there.

Beginning - Peter finding the briefcase and wondering who his parents are and why they left him to focus on their work.
Middle - Connors warmly telling Peter what kind of man his father is, then showing that Connors is more or less a similar absent father.
Ending - Connors, Ratha, and Peter in the sewers.

That was focus. We didn't find anything else out that we didn't in the theatrical cut, but it felt a lot more focused rather than disappearing after the first act.

The post-credits sequence shows us that the filmmakers have not forgotten about the parents storyline. Like I said, it was introduced in this film as the underlying theme throughout the next few films, and it acted as a catalyst for Peter to go to Oscorp and get bit by the Spider. Maybe it did lose its focus, and that is one flaw in the script, but we know it is something that is going to be resolved in one of the future movies.

Mary Jane being cut from the film is a script change. IT HAPPENS.

 

[amazingly atiba]

exactly @picard

 

[SpideyFan866]

I don't think the deleted scenes would have really contained the "Untold Story' we were all hoping for. As people have said before, TASM is more like "The Untold Story Begins."

This.

1 is the Untold Story begins
2 the untold story continues

3 the Untold story revealed/concluded

and 4 is a new beginning with focus shifting to a new arc (probably Symbiote)

 

[Picard Sisko]

There was probably a higher chance of MJ's role being cut from the film due to fan backlash than a poor script.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX2FNi0tGME

 

[Ultimatehero]

So are supposed to buy this?

Hey, I don't care. Believe it or not people on here absolutely hate me and have it out for me (for god knows what reason) that I am where I am (some have come flat out and posted that in the past). You can even check my history if you want.

you cant reference tdk when talking about this subject and i never said that gwen would die in tasm 2 because of that. what are you trying to prove anyway dude? mj is out and on for another storyboard and its probly for the best and this whole thread has spent the better part of 2 hours trying to explain somthing to u that u are just not getting

Actually you guys want to believe the spin. You're just not getting how strange this is for something like this to happen. And it's 101 that you don't just suddenly plop down a character's death out of nowhere. Every moment and every scene has to have a reason for being there. Everything has to be leading up to that one moment. Something as pivotal as Gwen's death you can't just delete and change at the last moment because that would ruin the arcs and themes that came before it. This is all really simple stuff actually.

Making script changes during production - even substantial changes - is not unheard of, as I already pointed out with my LotR:TTT example from earlier.

Not unheard of, but everyone is going about like this is the most common thing in the world to happen. Also keep in mind FOR, TT, and RTK basically were filming at the exact same time - so that wasn't really that normal of filming. Plus, it is usually things that have to do with budgetary reasons.

100%.

To answer your last statement with a question: You did see TASM, didn't you?

But yeah, the studios, writers, directors don't pay much attention to the scripts these days. Did you see Prometheus?

Yeah, and that's why I don't have faith in what's going on here because it seems like the past repeating itself. You and DarkB so far seem like the only ones who are getting what this could more than easily point to.

was gwen not an untold story??? was oscorp not an untold story? answer that @ultimate hero his parents arnt the whole untold story

Gwen was part of it, Oscorp - depends on where they go, his parents were the character's key struggle in the very beginning and what set him on the quest and which quickly disappeared. The question and conflict was -- who am I? The means was Connors/The Lizard.

Maybe it did lose its focus, and that is one flaw in the script, but we know it is something that is going to be resolved in one of the future movies.

It was IN the script, Webb deleted it at the last moment, making it feel too more than just to me awkwardly chopped apart.

You guys are seriously confusing info told with focus.

Someone could tell me about my biological father without telling me whatever happened to him.

And that's what they did -- originally.

 

[Picard Sisko]

This.

1 is the Untold Story begins
2 the untold story continues

3 the Untold story revealed/concluded

and 4 is a new beginning with focus shifting to a new arc (probably Symbiote)

At most they would have hinted at things like from the trailers:

"Do you know what you really are? You were part of a bigger plan" - Dr. Ratha