The Anti-Prequel Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episodes I - III' started by Doc Ock, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Hellion

    Hellion Oppa Is Here

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    I like the entire saga...PT&OT...but agree with everything you just said. One of My main beefs with the PT is characters (mostly jedi) are stupid for the sake of being stupid/for the sake of the plot.
     
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  2. Gianakin_

    Gianakin_ SW Prequels Defender

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    'Cause at the time I felt like debating and the anti/pro thread division isn't a very good idea, imo. Simple, really.
     
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  3. Thundercrack85

    Thundercrack85 Well-Known Member

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    What I never get is why in Episode I it never occurred to them to leave Tatooine with another ship. They go there because their enemies are on the look out for them. Time is a serious factor.

    And instead of ditching the conspicuous shiny ship they came with, they wait around for days (probably resulting in a lot of deaths on Naboo), bet on a kid, in hopes that he turns out to be Force Jesus so that they can pay someone for a specific ship part.

    Instead they could have just used that money to pay someone to sneak them out.
     
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  4. psylockolussus

    psylockolussus Well-Known Mutant

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    Since I'm not a Star Wars, I'm not worried if they make a new movie every year. But I definitely think the general public might get tired of seeing a new SW movie every year especially if the new SW films aren't really that good.
     
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  5. Gianakin_

    Gianakin_ SW Prequels Defender

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    If they don't get tired of superhero flicks, I don't see them getting tired of SW.
     
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  6. BenKenobi

    BenKenobi Well-Known Member

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    The whole plot felt like it was more of a contrivance to get to the dawn of the Empire than a natural change and there was WAY too much focus on Anakin becoming Vader.

    Then why does it upset you when people on this thread don't like these movies and have legitimate reasons why they don't?

    There was nothing and I mean NOTHING at stake on Tattoine. Anakin and his mother were happy slaves, hell we even see Anakin playing with his friends and have a nice family dinner at home! If they wanted us to care they should have been getting whipped, scared, tired but instead it's not that horrible if they remained slaves, they look like they're doing alright.

    The enemy wasn't present or close during the time spent on the planet. We don't see anything bad happen on Naboo and yes Maul arrives but then he just sends some droids that find them at the most convenient moment possible. If Lucas wanted to build suspense, he should have had shots of Maul accurately following their trail, and finding them a little too early. I'm not trying to rewrite the movie, it's just basic story telling, suspense is built by things going wrong and hoping/wondering how the heroes are going to get out of the mess unscathed. Ideally Maul would have found them during the pod-race instead of on the trip back to the ship, because they heroes are very close to achieving their goal on the world and suddenly have a huge unexpected obstacle in their way.

    And yes it was nonsensical they didn't just get another ship or try another shop or just steal it. Qui-Gon tried to give him worthless money and ended up conning him out of the part and a slave anyway.
     
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  7. Solouk

    Solouk Well-Known Member

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    For me, there was a good story to be told in the prequels. An emotive, tension filled, dramatic story. It could've been epic. But sadly, after the success of the OT, GL holed himself up in Skywalker ranch and drifted into madness. After years of recluse he came to firmly believe that he could do it all himself. Write, direct, everything. He was untouchable. He would surround himself with arse lickers who were afraid of his shadow, and people who had no creative opinion about anything, ever. And if they did they were too gutless to voice that opinion with the fear GL would send them packing to dare question his vision. He would prove to the world that he, and he alone could do it all.... As I see it, Lucas is a visionary. He has great ideas. But he is NOT a great director,scriptwriter etc. People have to realise their limitations and not become deluded into thinking they're something that they aren't. It's called being humble. Unfortunately GL was blinded to these facts and we (fans who are smart and don't just sit there drooling at CGI and know what a coherent story is) had to endure the mind numbingly insipid mess that the prequels were.
     
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  8. Gianakin_

    Gianakin_ SW Prequels Defender

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    So those of us who enjoyed the prequels aren't smart and just sit there drooling at CGI and don't know what a coherent story is?
     
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  9. Solouk

    Solouk Well-Known Member

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    In the main yeah. Depends what you want from a film? Do you want an intelligent, well thought out story with a good script and interesting characters? (The Mission, Memento, Heat, Gladiator, etc) or do you want a bland cartoon that lasts 700 mins with nothing characters. That totally destroys the legacy of the 3 films that preceded it. If you like that sort of film then that's fine, fill your boots. Remember, without the success of the OT, there would be no PT. Lucas should've made the prequels as a thanks to the fans that made him a very rich man. Fans that weren't kids anymore. Who grew up with the OT and wanted a more intelligent set of films. But there you go, what's done is done.
     
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  10. Solouk

    Solouk Well-Known Member

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    Thoughts Gianakin?....nah, didnt think so. The prequels were utter crap so wake up bud.
     
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  11. Gianakin_

    Gianakin_ SW Prequels Defender

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    Thank you for making it easy.
     
    #111
  12. danoyse

    danoyse Snikt. Stab. Repeat.

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    Tone down the attitude. This thread is criticizing the prequels, not other posters.
     
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  13. Spider-Gnome

    Spider-Gnome Walloping Web-Snappers!

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    I hate these characterizations of Lucas. :whatever:

    Lucas has said and still says to this day he does not like writing and knows it is not his strong suit. When he set out to write the prequels, he approached Lawrence Kasdan to be involved. Kasdan politely said that Star Wars were George's stories and that he should write them. Likewise when thinking about directing, his friends such as Spielberg encouraged him to get back in the director's chair. Lucas decided to direct Episode I to see how it went. If he still didn't care for directing, he would get others to direct the other two (like he did for the OT). Turns out he enjoyed the experience so he decided to direct the other two.

    NO, Lucas should have made the prequels to complete the story he wanted to tell.

    Remember, Lucas made movies that he wanted to see. That's why he made the Star Wars and Indiana Jones films. It just so happens his tastes matched a generation's taste. So, maybe the prequels didn't match as many tastes as his films of the 70's & 80's. You don't like them? Don't watch them, or buy items related to them to make him a "very rich man."
     
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  14. jonathancrane

    jonathancrane I love Marvel, DC & EC!

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    For all of the individuals who did not like the prequel trilogy, I highly recommend watching Plinkett's hour long reviews of each film. He illustrates where all of it went wrong through film criticism and history as well: the behind-the-scenes footage illustrates the lack of revision the screenplays went through. In addition, he applies some suggestions that would have made the films 10x better. Plus, he's hilarious.
     
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  15. Solouk

    Solouk Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I've seen all of them and they are spot on AND very funny. What gets me with Lucas is that after that initial view they had of the final edit of TPM, didnt he think hold on a minute, maybe I've bitten of more than I can chew here. It was clear to see it was terrible. Just as a film,above all else, it was terrible. He's not an idiot, he's an intelligent man. He should've said,"right, there's nothing we can do now because the film is done. But I'm going to go all out to get people in to help me with the next 2." It was a pivotal moment because the trilogy was still salvageable at that point.
     
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  16. doobie

    doobie Well-Known Member

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    I really enjoyed the first 2 prequels but III was the one that disappointed me. One, the final duel between Obi Wan and Anakin. I had spent years imagining it as some slow paced, quiet, dignified lonely battle on an empty lava planet, like the fight between Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris or a shoot out in a Clint Eastwood western. I didn't think it would be all chaotic. And second, Anakin's fall. I don't want to get into the plot logic, but I wanted to feel it like I felt Michael and Vito's falls to evil in the Godfather films. Every step of the way I felt sympathy that they had no choice and that fate pushed them into their path, but could still see them going to evil. I wanted it to feel as gripping as that.
     
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  17. Slushy

    Slushy Well-Known Member

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    The Phantom Menace - Its actually a good movie if you delete Jar Jar Binks. Seriously, he's the worst thing about it and makes you want to fast forward any scenes he is in. If it wasn't for him, TPM wouldn't have gotten so much flack for its theatrical release. The pod race and the dual lightsaber were so exciting to watch.

    Attack Of The Clonetroopers - The movie was boring until The Clonetroopers came to the rescue. Ironically, its features my favorite scene with Hayden when he massacres Sand People.

    Revenge Of The Sith - A huge improvement over Episode II, but I felt like something was missing. Grevious and Order 66 were awesome though.


    Overall, the prequels just showed awful of a director George Lucas is.
     
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  18. Llama_Shepherd

    Llama_Shepherd Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I saw Menace the whole way through for the first time in a long time the other day and I realised that if you just cut out about 5-10 mins of footage that is too overtly slapstick it's actually a good film. It's really Clones that lets down the trilogy, in that Lucas, to his own admission, couldn't write a love story.
     
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  19. TheHighlander

    TheHighlander The Only One

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    Anakin should have let the kids go... those kids which he was ordered to hunt by palpatine in the years between a ROTS and ANH. That would give him the "light side" and the "dark side".
     
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  20. Llama_Shepherd

    Llama_Shepherd Well-Known Member

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    That's not a very Vader thing to do though. This is Vader when he isn't just resigned to the Sith, but he's trying to dive in head first at the deep end. He needed to commit a truly heinous act in order to show the depths he is plummeting to.
     
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  21. James

    James Built from Lego

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    Episode III wasn't the first time Anakin killed children either, he wiped out that entire village of Sand People. By the time he got to the Jedi Younglings it was sort of a "Well I've already done this once." type thing. Plus, as Llama_Shepherd said, he was too far gone to turn back by that point.
     
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  22. BenKenobi

    BenKenobi Well-Known Member

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    Phantom Menace was the only one Lucas was actually trying on. By the book he did a lot of things right, however having watched a lot of the edit's that try to cut down on the slap stick, you realize the momentum just drops dead once they reach Tattooine. Maul is chasing them yes, but he's shown to be VERY far behind them, and we don't see anything bad happening on Naboo so the tension just dies and the film becomes boring.

    However I do agree with you that Attack of the Clones was by far the worst film in the trilogy as well as one of the worst films of the decade imo.
     
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  23. Brother Jack

    Brother Jack Believer

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    Episode I is, to me, probably the best of the prequels. It's an insane thing to say since it's not a good movie at all. But it feels the most like a Star Wars movie with it's use of real sets and creatures, not to mention the fact that it was shot on film. The score is also the strongest here, though it's exceptional in each of them and is the only consistently good thing in the trilogy.
     
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  24. titansupes

    titansupes Well-Known Member

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    I can see it being the best for the things you've listed, but III still trumps it for me because of story/character being so much stronger.

    And II, well... *shudder*.
     
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  25. DarKush

    DarKush Well-Known Member

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    In response to some of Ben Kenobi's post:

    -You made a great point about bringing Anakin in as a pilot hired to fly Qui Gonn, etc. to Coruscant. I would've liked that more. I preferred an older Anakin in TPM anyway. Though I probably would've switched Tatoonine for Corellia instead. In part because I would've liked to have seen more Star Wars worlds. And I would've switched Alderaan for Naboo. It would've been nice to see more of that world. It perhaps could've added more resonance to Episode IV and been some dreadful foreshadowing of what was to come.

    -I don't quite agree with you about Palpatine not wanting the treaty signed. You make some good points though about how it might not have made sense for him to want the treaty to be signed. However if Padme had folded and signed it, I still think he could've engineered a no confidence vote in Valorum using the chancellor's inability to prevent the Trade Federation from forcing Naboo to sign the treaty.

    -I too didn't think it made much sense for Dooku to be trying to kill Padme, since she was a strong opponent of the Military Creation Act. What would've made more sense there is for Padme to support the Act. If there had been a Republic military it is doubtful that the Federation would've been able to blockade her planet, so it made no sense for her to be against the act. I think Lucas didn't think that would jibe with her idealism. However I think it would've been great to see Padme unknowingly more complicit in the rise of the Empire too.

    -I also thought it would've been sweet if the seeds of the Rebellion were actually the defeated Separatists.

    -I also would've not made Dooku a Sith Lord. He was a good Sith Lord. But I liked the idea he floated in AOTC when he was trying to deceive Obi Wan. I think it would've been better if Dooku was actually rebelling against the Republic in a misguided attempt to save it. He would perhaps be a dupe of Palpatine still but for more noble reasons. Or maybe he would just be that one man who could really see what was going on but ultimately powerless to prevent it. And his turning away from the Republic might be better foreshadowing for Anakin's fall.
     
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