Age of Ultron The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 52

[Chance Jackson]

I felt he had more of a superiority complex than a God one, though his dialogue was sometimes biblical, there were humans he cared for, and kidnapping Widow just to have someone to talk to isn't something a God type would do. IMO of course. He definitely thought he was superior to the human race though.

Gods do petty **** like that in myth and legend all the time

 

[Erzengel]

I watched this for the 2nd time and enjoyed it more than the 1st time. Still the same thought in terms of the rest of the MCU, it's not as good as the Top 4 (IM, A, TWS & GOTG) but I'd put it around the same level of TFA, T and IM3.

 

[samsnee]

The third act felt over stuffed. I enjoyed Vision but he didn't really have any development and was more of just deux ex machina for things (getting Ultron off the net, saving Wanda). I didn't mind Hawkeye having a family but the Bruce/Nat pairing didn't work at all.

And they really do need to stop making quips so quickly after every time a character dies. It takes away from the weight of the scene.

 

[Dr doomsday]

I don't get how the avengers is so high regarded it's incredibly lazy and beyond generic Age of Ultron beats it in every conceivable way. Everyone says the first is better but when you do a breakdown of each movie, story, emotion character development and even action Age of Ultron wins all of them. The first movie has the awe of all the heroes together but does nothing with it.

We learn hardly anything about the characters, how they are similar, different how this brings them into conflict or who they truly are. It's barely even a movie but rather one big spectacle devoid of anything resembling plot or character development.

The only thing the movie does, is make you go, OH MY GOODNESS Iron Man and Cap are in the same scene together, but it doesn't do anything with it. It's too tongue and cheek what's the point of having the heroes together if you don't do anything with them character wise. This is meaningless without proof so here you go.

First Hulk and Banner, in the first movie Banner is basically a machine of anger jokes these are his most memorable moments. He has a few meaningful scenes, like his talk with Stark and the fall out on the helicarriers but that's it, he doesn't have an arc, he just controls Hulk out of nowhere. In Age of Ultron Banner is actually the tortured soul he's meant to be, he's basically shield or more importantly Natasha's weapon and he hates it, he sees himself as a monster this is shown he refuses the idea of a happy life and is horrified when he awakens from his nightmare, he sends himself into exile out of guilt. How can anyone argue he's better in the first?

Steve, in the first movie he got a lot of screen time but little development nor did he get any real emotional depth, his dynamic with Stark was mostly humorous with the exception of the fall out. In Age of Ultron his conflict with Stark is actually quite intense at times especially in the second half few scenes involving them are humorous. Steve's nightmare brings his character to a completely different place, he doesn't want to stop fighting he doesn't know who he is without it, he doesn't want peace because in a world of peace he has no purpose. That adds a lot to Steve as a character and gives a far deeper look into his mind, I don't see how the first used him better.

Natasha, in the first she has her debt to Hawkeye but that only receives two scenes of actual focus and ends up having little pay off, aside from her debt we learn almost nothing about her, nothing about her past, why she feels the way she does even what her and Clint's bond is isn't really elaborated on. In Age we see her training and are shown the horrible things she had to do, we find out that she sees herself as nothing but a killer and a monster. I'll get into the romance arc later. We learn more about her we delve deeper into her mind and just have a better understanding of her, how did the first use her better?

Loki vs Ultron, Loki was great in Thor, in Avengers he's a cartoon villain whose plan is literally I will rule the world, everything that made Loki complex is completely sucked out of him. His relationship with Thor one scene and a fight, those are the only multi layered scenes he has, he has plenty of awesome speeches but there's nothing multi layered about him, his daddy issues gone, his self loathing gone, his envy of Thor barely focused on, and his overall miserable self is gone. Loki is witty he is funny and beneath all that he is completely miserable, Avengers barely shows this.

Ultron's pain is very clear his relationships with other characters namely the twins is actually shown, unlike Loki in Avengers Ultron has a clear character arc and a complex motivation, his desire with peace combined with his hopes to essentially become a real boy. Ultron's character is focused on his motives explored his relationships explored and his character very developed probably one of the most developed characters in the movie.

Threat level, Loki's plan works but there's a problem it's not because it was clever it's because the heroes were idiots, I knew what Loki was planning almost the moment they imprisoned him, it was obvious. The smile at Banner, the fact that he didn't escape while they were fighting, seriously it was obvious he wanted to be there and only Fury acknowledges this. The fallout is so forced argue about the weapons later deal with the problem at hand. Loki wasn't smart the avengers were idiots.

Ultron tears them apart by forcing them to face their worst nightmares and brainwashing hulk into going on a rampage to damage their image, the whole thing is actually a distraction to let him get away with his real goal. In truth it's similar to Loki's the difference the avengers aren't idiots, they fall for it because it was unexpected. While Loki's plans were obvious you never really knew what Ultron's next move would actually be. Both beat the heroes but Ultron's victory was through clever planning Loki's was the avengers stupidity.

Loki manages to kill many shield agents, brainwash Clint and slavec and steal the cube he then obtains what he needs for his portal and allows himself to be captured to stage an ambush and cripple the avengers and shield by using the hulk as his weapon. He then opens the portal and unleashes the Chitauri. Physical feats, include his escape at the beginning, fighting and overpowering cap, killing Coulson and fighting Thor before stabbing him.

Ultron manages to destroy Jarvis and infiltrate the internet, he uses the twins to get into the avengers heads and psychologically break many of them. He steals the vibranium, brainwashes cho and completes his last body. He captures black widow and successfully levitates sokovia into the air nearly causing a global extinction event. Physical feats include fighting Iron Man and matching him, overpowering captain America, briefly overpowering Thor and killing quicksilver.

Ultron is no less a physical threat than Loki and his plan is more damaging to the characters as well he also comes closer to achieving his goal, both of them. Both villains have near victory moments, Loki when the Chitauri overwhelm the Avengers, Ultron when the Avengers are going to sacrifice themselves and Sokovia. This would've been a victory for Ultron the avengers would have to sacrifice every innocent life, in his mind proving they are killers, proving he is better than them. Ultron has another when his last drone drops Sokovia.

Finally the romance arc while out of left field it makes a little sense who did Banner interact with the most Natasha. So there is a little set up but that doesn't matter as I said Bruce and Natasha are barely characters in the first movie the romance adds to both of them. It also makes sense, Natasha and Bruce are kindred spirits when you watch the scenes that develop them you see that they are very similar.

Both believe they are monsters, both have done terrible things, both are plagued by self loathing and both are incapable of having a family and emotionally cut themselves off from others. How does this not make sense look at how similar they are. The arc also develops the story Hulk is essentially a dog on Natasha's leash, Bruce always feared the hulk would become a weapon and that's exactly what happens Natasha uses hulk as a weapon against the avengers enemies in a way justifying both of their beliefs that they are monsters. This is surprisingly deep character development especially for marvel.

Now I skipped hawkeye but that's self explanatory as is Tony Thor is not better but I don't think he's worse either. The story is also self explanatory Ultron has the better story now throw in the fact that nearly all the characters have better arcs and the movie delves deeper into the characters and their emotions and once again aside from being more fun how on Earth is Avengers better than Age of Ultron?

 

[ernesth100]

HEY. Question, did Evans really rip that log in half or was that CGI as well?

 

[Silvermoon]

HEY. Question, did Evans really rip that log in half or was that CGI as well?

There's behind the scenes footage of him holding the log, so it was something physical he actually had on set. My guess is it was either a pre-split log that was fastened together in a way that allowed him to pull it apart at the already existing split. Or else it was a prop made of some light weight material that he was able to rip apart. Pretty sure it wasn't CGI (at least not full CGI, they may have done some minor touch ups or added small elements like splinters flying in post)

 

[ernesth100]

Oh either way pretty cool still

 

[Dr doomsday]

Is anyone going to post an actual counter to what I said, I'm serious can anyone state a proper defense that justifies why the first Avengers film is better than Age of Ultron?

 

[First Avenger]

Is anyone going to post an actual counter to what I said, I'm serious can anyone state a proper defense that justifies why the first Avengers film is better than Age of Ultron?

The easy amswer is that people just prefer the first one to the second.
There are many things that didn't click with people:
-The absence of novelty factor.
-The 'in medias res' beginning.
-The perception that AoU didn't follow the ongoing story of Phase 2.
-The romantic plot .
-Ultron's character and origins.
-Hawkeye having a family.
-The overcrowded feel and complex story.
-The Phase 3 set-ups.
-Killing off Pietro.

Now I too slightly prefer AoU to Avengers but it's just not the general consensus.

 

[Sleiek]

Is anyone going to post an actual counter to what I said, I'm serious can anyone state a proper defense that justifies why the first Avengers film is better than Age of Ultron?

I too think Age of Ultron is better than the first. As far as I remember, I think I agreed with most of your points. I enjoyed Age of Ultron far more than the first even though I had a couple of problems with Ultron himself and the lack of a much darker tone promised in the first look.

I loved Avengers. I loved Age of Ultron even more. Probably has to do with the fact we see more of the teamwork and its dynamics.

 

[MercurialMuroid]

Dr doomsday, I thought you were a little hard on the Avengers. It was light super-hero fair, but it was exactly the movie Marvel needed the solidify the franchise and tie up Phase 1.

But as for I Age of Ultron, really do like it more, and your analysis of why it was the more evolved film was SPOT ON! Well spoken, sir!

 

[InCali]

Dr doomsday, I thought you were a little hard on the Avengers. It was light super-hero fair, but it was exactly the movie Marvel needed the solidify the franchise and tie up Phase 1.

But as for I Age of Ultron, really do like it more, and your analysis of why it was the more evolved film was SPOT ON! Well spoken, sir!

Me too. I don't know about others, but I liked the fact that the characters were a little bit more fleshed out in AoU. Sure, there were some parts that didn't completely work, but I'd give it a couple of decimal points on a scale of 0-10 over TA.

 

[First Avenger]

I think in a couple years this movie will be more appreciated,kind of like Iron Man 3. At least I hope so,being a big fan of it.

 

[Sleiek]

I think in a couple years this movie will be more appreciated,kind of like Iron Man 3. At least I hope so,being a big fan of it.

Yeah I hope so. Age of Ultron deserves more appreciation.

But I have to admit that my liking from Iron Man 3 degrades every year that passes by. I remember when I first watched it, I was impressed and thoroughly entertained but then I thought about all the potential they had with Mandarin.

 

[Dr doomsday]

Forgive my harshness I don't mind a movie having fun but I don't think it should be at the expense of everything else, I did not like banner being mostly comic relief I also felt the whole phase 2 weapons sub plot was a waste that served no purpose. I have similar yet different thoughts with guardians I didn't like how they handled Drax he shouldn't be comic relief in my opinion anyway, guess I just have a different story telling preference, I like the first avengers just think it's overrated.

 

[First Avenger]

Yeah I hope so. Age of Ultron deserves more appreciation.

But I have to admit that my liking from Iron Man 3 degrades every year that passes by. I remember when I first watched it, I was impressed and thoroughly entertained but then I thought about all the potential they had with Mandarin.

Yeah of course it's subjective. But I think people generally accept IM3 more now than when it came out. I sure as h3ll was confused the first time I saw it.

 

[Dr doomsday]

In truth the twist wouldn't of bothered me if Killian had been a good villain, and the political stuff of the first half continued. Unlike a lot of other people my flaws with Iron Man 3 was never the mandarin it was the fact that it had a great first act an enjoyable beginning of the second act then the second half of the movie was horrible throwing away everything interesting about the movie.

It still could've been good I'm open to almost any change as long as it's engaging but iron man 3 went from Marvel's most engaging film to one of it's most one dimensional films I could not forgive that.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I think in a couple years this movie will be more appreciated,kind of like Iron Man 3. At least I hope so,being a big fan of it.

Personally I don't think so, IM3's reputation has only worsened since it came out, a big factor in that being the wasted potential. I can only see the same happening for AOU. I don't find much re-watch value in either movie, and so I think with time AOU will only go down in people's estimations.

Yeah I hope so. Age of Ultron deserves more appreciation.

But I have to admit that my liking from Iron Man 3 degrades every year that passes by. I remember when I first watched it, I was impressed and thoroughly entertained but then I thought about all the potential they had with Mandarin.

Agreed about IM3, loved it when I first saw it, but my rating has down literally every time I have watched it again.

 

[First Avenger]

I appreciated both more with each viewing. Marvel's most underrated movies imo.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I appreciated both more with each viewing. Marvel's most underrated movies imo.

Sad to say I get the opposite with both. However Thor, IM1, both Cap movies, GOTG and Ant Man all get better with each viewing.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Would someone be able to explain to me the genesis of the Cap/Thor "sleeping" banter. In the first Avengers, while they were fighting in the streets Cap says to him "What's a matter, you gettin' sleepy?" Then he says "What, were you napping?" in A:AOU after they rescue the people from the two cars that fell from the broken bridge.

 

[TeeKay]

Its just banter.

 

[Polux]

Hey guys, I was just watching the movie again and realized that in Tony's hallucination (the one with the fallen Avengers) there's plenty more bodies around...any word on who those people might be??

Polux

 

[Sleiek]

I remember reading some of the posters saying they were SWORD agents? I am not familiar with them, they form the space division of SHIELD?

 

[Endeavor]

I remember reading some of the posters saying they were SWORD agents? I am not familiar with them, they form the space division of SHIELD?

Yes that's pretty much what SWORD is.