Age of Ultron The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - - - - - Part 51

[Mysteryman]

As far as The Avengers films go,I consider Marvel 2 for 2 .

 

[Quasimod0]

Saw it for the fourth time today! Still really enjoyed it. Everyone I was with either thought it was better than the first movie, or enjoyed it just as much as the first.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

I saw it again yesterday. I gotta say, despite its flaws and all, AOU gets better with each viewing.

 

[Jaxon]

As far as The Avengers films go,I consider Marvel 2 for 2 .

 

[seahammer]

Saw it for the fourth time today! Still really enjoyed it. Everyone I was with either thought it was better than the first movie, or enjoyed it just as much as the first.

I saw it again yesterday. I gotta say, despite its flaws and all, AOU gets better with each viewing.

I saw it for my second time yesterday too. I don't know if I can do a fair comparison between 1 and 2 (can't I just like 'em both?), but I keep hearing people say they like 2 more than 1 as well, and by a large margin. Maybe it's the newness factor, or maybe it's because it's so action packed and the story is told more through action than dialogue, i don't know.

I'll probably see it 2 more times while it's in theaters, then I'll just have to hold on until Ant-Man!

 

[InCali]

I saw it for my second time yesterday too. I don't know if I can do a fair comparison between 1 and 2 (can't I just like 'em both?), but I keep hearing people say they like 2 more than 1 as well, and by a large margin. Maybe it's the newness factor, or maybe it's because it's so action packed and the story is told more through action than dialogue, i don't know.

I'll probably see it 2 more times while it's in theaters, then I'll just have to hold on until Ant-Man!

I hope it's allowed to just like both of them because I do. If I had to pick, I'd say I liked AoU better because there was more of who the characters were. I liked the first one because it was unique. All of these superheroes teamed up. That was awesome. I remember when I first got the clue that they were going to get the Avengers together in the credits scene. My head almost exploded.

 

[TheVision]

The first film is totally enjoyable and fun. The second film is more cinematic and compelling to me. I like both for different reasons.

 

[InCali]

The first film is totally enjoyable and fun. The second film is more cinematic and compelling to me. I like both for different reasons.

We're pretty much on the same wavelength. Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Raiden]

I really liked AOU, but will admit I didn’t love it. With a film as jam-packed as this though, there are bound to be as many issues as there are great things. I spent a lot of time looking at where I’d adjust things in ways that I would’ve personally found more satisfying. This is in no way suggesting I could’ve done any better, because hindsight is always 20/20 and it’s easy to critique from your armchair than truly make a good movie from scratch. But I’m curious to know your guys’ thoughts on these points.

First off, I’d like to note that a big issue for me was the romantic subplot between Banner and Black Widow. I love a good, tragic, love story, but here I felt the pieces didn’t fit. There’s a definitely a kinship to be explored there, but it could’ve been done through different means. I got the impression from the end of TWS that Widow had accepted her past and was moving forward. I don’t peg her as someone still sulking about her past so openly, even with a Witch’s influence. I believe this angle could’ve been used to help Banner with a separate arc – the power struggle for control between he & Hulk. He’s been unleashing the Hulk fairly often now, and Hulk has taken a liking to it. That’s my biggest change upfront.

So with that preface out of the way, here’s how I’d see the movie playing out:

Spoiler

• Opening essentially plays out the same.

• Back at base, it’s clear the Avengers are getting burnt out. Their relationships are falling apart due to time spent in different lives (Thor & Jane, Tony & Pepper, Hawkeye’s yet-to-be-mentioned family), it’s taking a toll on their bodies, and oftentimes when one threat is defeated, another will spring up as a direct result of their interference. Banner is worried that the Hulk is enjoying his time out too much and is getting harder to coax down after battles. R&R is in order before an upcoming afterparty.

• Stark believes the scepter can help be the final piece in creating Ultron, an AI like JARVIS that’s merely lacking the more intricate judgment to determine small, complex decisions (like the fact that JARVIS attacks Extemis Pepper in IM3 due to having a black-and-white, robotic mindset). By using it to insert his brainwaves, deeper analytical judgment could be practiced.

• The rest of the group, beaten down by their fatigue, concedes that it may be a good idea, trusting that Stark’s judgment will be a useful benefactor. Cap is the most reluctant by far and away since he lives for avenging, but concedes that it may be a good idea if it means he can spend more time tracking down Bucky. He wants more time to know the research is solid, but Stark is so confident that he puts it into action anyway.

• Ultron and JARVIS’s first confrontation is given more breathing time when Ultron brings himself into an armored suit. We see him learn a bit more before tearing down JARVIS.

• Party scene & its interruption play out as is (minus the subtracted romance subplot). The Starkisms in Ultron are on full display earlier, indicating the darker side of Stark’s mind has been utilized.

• All plays out the same.

• When Wanda gives the team visions, Thor’s vision is a fusion of his first one and second. No reason to give him two when they can be compressed.

• We see Wanda induce Banner with reality-warping fears – we get inside his head to see him in a state of limbo where he internally confronts Hulk in an abstract visual manner (which’d be totally awesome with a creative-enough director). Banner’s consciousness attempts to keep Hulk’s consciousness at bay, but the Hulk’s aggressively breaks out and Hulk begins his rampage.

• During the Hulkbuster fight, the various pieces of Stark’s armor die out due the extreme amount of energy they take to power (re: the many arc reactors being used). More tension is injected into the fight as limbs flop off and a “ticking clock” element is given to a pressured Tony. With the final lowly percentage, Stark fires his fist into Hulk. Hulk down. Hulkbuster down. Hulk is no longer superseded on the team by an Iron Man armor.

• Farm sequence mostly plays out as is. Thor is on the farm. Fury doesn’t show up and isn’t mentioned. Black Widow’s scene with Banner is her confronting him on his fears coming to life. She relates to him that she too has a monster within her. It’s been buried there, and could come out any time to haunt her, but she’s come to accept that it’s a part of her, and understands that fearing it will only reinforce its power over her. Banner differentiates his experience from hers, but can’t help finding truth in her words.

• Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch torment Dr. Cho into doing Ultron’s bidding. Seeing her in that state has an effect on Wanda, who expresses in a scene alone with Pietro that she’s only really in this to hurt the Avengers & not take victims as collateral damage as Stark once did to their family. Pietro is more defensive about it and halfheartedly excuses the issue. Ultron in the meantime prepares his new body.

• Back at Avengers Tower, Stark discovers JARVIS stowed away in a Iron Legion suit that he severed from the network while hiding from Ultron, rather than the internet.

• All plays out the same, until the Ultron fight where Banner, not Widow, is captured by Ultron.

• Ultron plans on using the Hulk as a nuclear option in the way the Avengers have been. He admits to admiring the Hulk as Banner’s “evolved form”, and wishes to eradicate the latter. He places Banner in a torture device in an effort to draw Hulk out permanently. Banner internally fights it as he had when Wanda affected him earlier. The clash makes his body behave erratically, seizing up and thrashing.

• Stark moves forward with using JARVIS to create Vision in private. The scene plays out the same, except Widow is there to fight alongside Cap, while Thor recognizes the gem & the android from his vision. The opponents disable the cocoon, but Thor jumpstarts with lightning as he does in the film (this time from within the conflict of the scene, rather than leaping in at the last moment out of seemingly nowhere).

• All plays out the same. Vision is awesome.

• In this instance, Widow shows up to free Banner and sees him wigging the hell out. She disables the torture device and reiterates her struggle with acceptance of inner demons, unsure if she’s getting through to him as he continues struggling. The internal visual clashing ceases. When he seems to reach a moment of harmony, the Hulk is unleashed and Widow’s terrified that Banner has lost control. However, Hulk graciously nods at Widow. He suggests he and Banner have reached a harmonious balance, and off they go to the battle.

• Before Vision disconnects Ultron from the internet, Ultron takes over Stark’s gear, including a banged-up Hulkbuster armor to sick onto the twins specifically as revenge, and to drive home the fact that the Avengers no longer have a contingency plan. Ultron also uses Stark storage ships to transport more and more drones onto the city. On the battlefield, suit-less Stark uses his ingenuity to help more people to safety. Once Ultron is disconnected, Stark dons the new armor and resumes kicking ass with that awesome tri-fecta unibeam moment.

• All plays out the same, including the conflict about sacrificing the city to save the world – only this time, the Vision takes control of Stark’s now-Ultron-less ships and uses them to get people off the city, rather than the slightly more deus-ex-machina Helicarrier.

• Rest of battle plays out the same.

• Lured into the Quinjet, Hulk now has complete control, but tentatively allows Banner back out. They don’t care for each other, but have reached a balance.
-OR-
• Hulk is told to surrender control back to Banner by Widow on the speaker, but Hulk gets on a power trip and refuses to do so. He shuts the speaker off and hijacks the Quinjet in a similar fashion seen in the film. However, the sadness is drawn from Banner being lost in Hulk’s body as Hulk selfishly keeps it to himself after Banner’s generously surrendered temporary control to him. We don’t see where he’s headed next.

• Stark is in hot water for his ****ups – he leaves just as much for a break as he does to do damage control.

• Rest of movie plays out the same.

These are just some thoughts I had in an effort to tighten things up, allow more breathing room in the pacing, create a more focused narrative through characters’ clearer motives thrusting the story, and keep in line with the themes of evolution and the team falling apart.

However, I only saw it once, so it’s entirely possible certain things I brought up could undo other points in the story. What do you think? Could any of these helped or been something you’d want to see? Even just smaller pieces like the extra tension in the Hulkbuster fight? Was my take on Hulk & Widow just silly compared to the film? Let me know, I enjoyed doing this.

Don’t take this as a knock to the film, by the way. I just enjoyed it so much I was inspired by it to apply my own creativity to it.

I like your ideas. I would also like to add that

Spoiler

I think Vision should've been an ally of Ultron after he was created, and help Ultron defeat the Avengers before the JARVIS side took over and go against his "creator". Ultron & Vision together would've added much more tension in the battle than Ultron and his disposable drones.

 

[MadVillainy]

So with that preface out of the way, here’s how I’d see the movie playing out:

Spoiler

• Opening essentially plays out the same.

• Back at base, it’s clear the Avengers are getting burnt out. Their relationships are falling apart due to time spent in different lives (Thor & Jane, Tony & Pepper, Hawkeye’s yet-to-be-mentioned family), it’s taking a toll on their bodies, and oftentimes when one threat is defeated, another will spring up as a direct result of their interference. Banner is worried that the Hulk is enjoying his time out too much and is getting harder to coax down after battles. R&R is in order before an upcoming afterparty.

• Stark believes the scepter can help be the final piece in creating Ultron, an AI like JARVIS that’s merely lacking the more intricate judgment to determine small, complex decisions (like the fact that JARVIS attacks Extemis Pepper in IM3 due to having a black-and-white, robotic mindset). By using it to insert his brainwaves, deeper analytical judgment could be practiced.

• The rest of the group, beaten down by their fatigue, concedes that it may be a good idea, trusting that Stark’s judgment will be a useful benefactor. Cap is the most reluctant by far and away since he lives for avenging, but concedes that it may be a good idea if it means he can spend more time tracking down Bucky. He wants more time to know the research is solid, but Stark is so confident that he puts it into action anyway.

• Ultron and JARVIS’s first confrontation is given more breathing time when Ultron brings himself into an armored suit. We see him learn a bit more before tearing down JARVIS.

• Party scene & its interruption play out as is (minus the subtracted romance subplot). The Starkisms in Ultron are on full display earlier, indicating the darker side of Stark’s mind has been utilized.

• All plays out the same.

• When Wanda gives the team visions, Thor’s vision is a fusion of his first one and second. No reason to give him two when they can be compressed.

• We see Wanda induce Banner with reality-warping fears – we get inside his head to see him in a state of limbo where he internally confronts Hulk in an abstract visual manner (which’d be totally awesome with a creative-enough director). Banner’s consciousness attempts to keep Hulk’s consciousness at bay, but the Hulk’s aggressively breaks out and Hulk begins his rampage.

• During the Hulkbuster fight, the various pieces of Stark’s armor die out due the extreme amount of energy they take to power (re: the many arc reactors being used). More tension is injected into the fight as limbs flop off and a “ticking clock” element is given to a pressured Tony. With the final lowly percentage, Stark fires his fist into Hulk. Hulk down. Hulkbuster down. Hulk is no longer superseded on the team by an Iron Man armor.

• Farm sequence mostly plays out as is. Thor is on the farm. Fury doesn’t show up and isn’t mentioned. Black Widow’s scene with Banner is her confronting him on his fears coming to life. She relates to him that she too has a monster within her. It’s been buried there, and could come out any time to haunt her, but she’s come to accept that it’s a part of her, and understands that fearing it will only reinforce its power over her. Banner differentiates his experience from hers, but can’t help finding truth in her words.

• Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch torment Dr. Cho into doing Ultron’s bidding. Seeing her in that state has an effect on Wanda, who expresses in a scene alone with Pietro that she’s only really in this to hurt the Avengers & not take victims as collateral damage as Stark once did to their family. Pietro is more defensive about it and halfheartedly excuses the issue. Ultron in the meantime prepares his new body.

• Back at Avengers Tower, Stark discovers JARVIS stowed away in a Iron Legion suit that he severed from the network while hiding from Ultron, rather than the internet.

• All plays out the same, until the Ultron fight where Banner, not Widow, is captured by Ultron.

• Ultron plans on using the Hulk as a nuclear option in the way the Avengers have been. He admits to admiring the Hulk as Banner’s “evolved form”, and wishes to eradicate the latter. He places Banner in a torture device in an effort to draw Hulk out permanently. Banner internally fights it as he had when Wanda affected him earlier. The clash makes his body behave erratically, seizing up and thrashing.

• Stark moves forward with using JARVIS to create Vision in private. The scene plays out the same, except Widow is there to fight alongside Cap, while Thor recognizes the gem & the android from his vision. The opponents disable the cocoon, but Thor jumpstarts with lightning as he does in the film (this time from within the conflict of the scene, rather than leaping in at the last moment out of seemingly nowhere).

• All plays out the same. Vision is awesome.

• In this instance, Widow shows up to free Banner and sees him wigging the hell out. She disables the torture device and reiterates her struggle with acceptance of inner demons, unsure if she’s getting through to him as he continues struggling. The internal visual clashing ceases. When he seems to reach a moment of harmony, the Hulk is unleashed and Widow’s terrified that Banner has lost control. However, Hulk graciously nods at Widow. He suggests he and Banner have reached a harmonious balance, and off they go to the battle.

• Before Vision disconnects Ultron from the internet, Ultron takes over Stark’s gear, including a banged-up Hulkbuster armor to sick onto the twins specifically as revenge, and to drive home the fact that the Avengers no longer have a contingency plan. Ultron also uses Stark storage ships to transport more and more drones onto the city. On the battlefield, suit-less Stark uses his ingenuity to help more people to safety, impressing the twins, who see a different side of him. Once Ultron is disconnected, Stark dons the new armor and resumes kicking ass with that awesome tri-fecta unibeam moment.

• All plays out the same, including the conflict about sacrificing the city to save the world – only this time, the Vision takes control of Stark’s now-Ultron-less ships and uses them to get people off the city, rather than the slightly more deus-ex-machina Helicarrier.

• Rest of battle plays out the same.

• Lured into the Quinjet, Hulk now has complete control, but tentatively allows Banner back out. They don’t care for each other, but have reached a balance.
-OR-
• Hulk is told to surrender control back to Banner by Widow on the speaker, but Hulk gets on a power trip and refuses to do so. He shuts the speaker off and hijacks the Quinjet in a similar fashion seen in the film. However, the sadness is drawn from Banner being lost in Hulk’s body as Hulk selfishly keeps it to himself after Banner’s generously surrendered temporary control to him. We don’t see where he’s headed next.

• Stark is in hot water for his ****ups – he leaves just as much for a break as he does to do damage control.

• Rest of movie plays out the same.

I liked a lot of these days and I think this would've made for a better movie. And I really enjoyed this movie already.
Only thigs I would've changed would've been

Spoiler

I would've gone for your second option for Hulk/Banner.
I would've kept Fury, Hill, and SHIELD. Maybe even Agent 13

But yeah I like your ideas a lot

 

[TheVision]

I was just thinking to myself Baron Strucker is like the Trevor Slattery of AOU.

 

[Raiden]

I was just thinking to myself Baron Strucker is like the Trevor Slattery of AOU.

I wish they had done something more substantial with Baron Strucker. Oh well.

 

[TheVision]

I dont think any of us expected the character we got, esp after seeing him at the end of TWS.

 

[Tony Stark]

I saw it for my second time yesterday too. I don't know if I can do a fair comparison between 1 and 2 (can't I just like 'em both?), but I keep hearing people say they like 2 more than 1 as well, and by a large margin. Maybe it's the newness factor, or maybe it's because it's so action packed and the story is told more through action than dialogue, i don't know.

I'll probably see it 2 more times while it's in theaters, then I'll just have to hold on until Ant-Man!

Certainly OK, to like them both. I like them both. The reason why I put 2 ahead of the other, is this one feels more like the Avengers comics. The first one is so wrapped up in SHIELD and getting everyone together that they really don't become the Avengers until they leave the Helicarrier.

One thing where the first film is clearly the better of the two is the 3D. I remember the 3D in the first film was outstanding where in this film it's OK but nothing spectacular.

 

[Tony Stark]

I wish they had done something more substantial with Baron Strucker. Oh well.

It's BSINO

But seriously very different character from the comics, other than a hydra connection.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I would have liked strucker to have some sort of powered glove akin to the comics.. and see them at least take him down... quick or not.. it would have been nice to see him put up a fight to some degree

 

[TheVision]

Struckers reaction was unexpected and funny, I didnt mind it that much. Marvel has so many other characters anyway. Baron Zemo will surely take his place as a great villain in the MCU.

 

[Tony Stark]

Yes Baron Zemo is more compelling than Strucker. I was glad we got to see a Cap vs. Strucker confrontation though.

I was hoping we'd see Red Skull again at somepoint but it's clear that won't be before Chris Evan's contract runs out.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Struckers reaction was unexpected and funny, I didnt mind it that much. Marvel has so many other characters anyway. Baron Zemo will surely take his place as a great villain in the MCU.

well... Hydra is all but gone.. Zemo is typically associated more with AIM anyway...

 

[TheVision]

Do you think Zemo will be associated with AIM in the MCU though? I thought that was just used for IM3 only?

 

[Loki882]

Given how much Marvel has used the whole "cut off one head, and two more will take it's place" line, I sincerely doubt that HYDRA is gone for good. Plus, HYDRA has been the main threat in both of the Cap movies (with different leadership). Marvel may want to do that again in CW, for symmetry's sake.

As for AOU, I actually think that it fixed some of the issues with the first movie. It actually did a BETTER job of balancing the characters imo, which is astonishing since the first movie did a damn fine job of that already and AOU had more characters.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Do you think Zemo will be associated with AIM in the MCU though? I thought that was just used for IM3 only?

I have no clue.. my AOU predictions were all wrong aside from Vision lifting the hammer...

i'd like for AIM to expand for sure though.. since it has such a big tie-in to Hulk and Zemo

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Given how much Marvel has used the whole "cut off one head, and two more will take it's place" line, I sincerely doubt that HYDRA is gone for good. Plus, HYDRA has been the main threat in both of the Cap movies (with different leadership). Marvel may want to do that again in CW, for symmetry's sake.

As for AOU, I actually think that it fixed some of the issues with the first movie. It actually did a BETTER job of balancing the characters imo, which is astonishing since the first movie did a damn fine job of that already and AOU had more characters.

you know.. they use that line often.. but we actually have never seen it... I've yet to see 2 people take the place of one with hydra... it's always just "next in charge" until there numbers have continually dwindled...

 

[Loki882]

you know.. they use that line often.. but we actually have never seen it... I've yet to see 2 people take the place of one with hydra... it's always just "next in charge" until there numbers have continually dwindled...

That's the thing, have their numbers really dwindled? They were assumed defunct after WWII, only to reemerge even stronger than before. SO it's more likely that they've scattered/gone underground again and are just waiting for another strong leader (like Zemo for example) to unite them again. As for the line, well:

-Red Skull is defeated, Arnim Zola and Alexander Pierce take his place.

-They're dealt with, and Baron Strucker, John Garrett, Daniel Whitehall, etc take their place.

-THEY'RE dealt with, and we'll see.

 

[Raiden]

Struckers reaction was unexpected and funny, I didnt mind it that much. Marvel has so many other characters anyway. Baron Zemo will surely take his place as a great villain in the MCU.

I thought they should've let Strucker get away and join Zemo and Crossbones in CW...

Spoiler

His death was meaningless and unnecessary imo.