The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 53

[BigThor]

Joss Whedon discusses the "power levels" of The Avengers

Whedon: "I had to find a way to service all the characters, to figure out why they're in the room in the first place. My biggest concern was that if I didn't pay enough attention to minutiae then the film would become generic in its concepts and visuals. Or that I'd be so concentrated on those things, I'd look around and the film wouldn't be about anything." On the action scenes and what Whedon terms "the hierarchy of power": Whedon: "If this guy hits someone, he falls down. If this guy hits someone, he flies backwards. Its very complicated.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Poni, you got any inkling as to who the studio might go after for Cap 2? I'd give it to Joe Wright.

No idea. It's not even greenlit yet.

EDIT: Personally I'd give it to Joe Carnahan (The A-Team, The Grey) and make it the Winter Soldier storyline.

 

[Iceman]

Same. The constant complaining about his lack of trunks killed any desire I had to spend time on those boards. Maybe after the trailer is released.

Hahaha, I've hardly been there. It's always something like that!

 

[The Infernal]

It was a cop out because it was completely unbelievable. He didn't have to "sacrifice" himself. The plane wasn't going to do any damage if HE COULD STEER IT WHERE EVER HE WANTED. This was supposed to be the brilliant tactician Captain America? Really, really poor writing. As much as I LOVE the heartfelt exchange between Peggy and Steve, I would have gladly exchanged that with a crash scene that didn't make him look like a doofus.

Doing it like the comics, where he either A) fell off the plane and into the ice or B) had to by brute force crash the plane because it's operating system was damaged, make it believable.

Been a while since I last saw TFA, but I'm not sure I agree. I think the point was that he needed to take the payload to somewhere it couldn't do a great lot of damage. He purposely crashed it in the Arctic.

 

[Iceman]

Joss Whedon discusses the "power levels" of The Avengers

It's all in the details Joss.

 

[Nirvana]

Got my tickets to the midnight showing.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I felt that the scene might've been a bit less "controversial" if it was shown that the plane was heavily damaged by the Cosmic Cube after Red Skull touched it, and Rogers crashed along with it after he was knocked unconscious. But the scene played it out like it did because they wanted Rogers to have his one, last radio conversation with Peggy, which I think was very well-done and sentimental, but that also makes people skeptical on whether he could've avoid the crash in the first place.

They wanted to make it his choice to crash and not an outside force. Nice sentiment, but there's a reason it was an accidental "death" in the comics.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Been a while since I last saw TFA, but I'm not sure I agree. I think the point was that he needed to take the payload to somewhere it couldn't do a great lot of damage. He purposely crashed it in the Arctic.

He didn't take it... anywhere. He just nosedived where he was.If he was in the Arctic he had hours and hours to figure something out before the plane would even be in Canada. Sorry, lazy writing. As for his "choice" see my last post.

Again, I understand the concept but the execution was poor.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Joss Whedon discusses the "power levels" of The Avengers

Yeah, I posted that a few pages back. It seems like Joss respects their power levels. Ohh, I'm so excited! t:

 

[lixdexia]

They wanted to make it his choice to crash and not an outside force. Nice sentiment, but there's a reason it was an accidental "death" in the comics.

the accidental death removes some of the heroism from it. i prefer the way it was done in the ultimates where he accepts he's going to die but goes ahead anyway because it will save more lives. i think that's what they were going for in TFA, but it wasn't handled particularly well.

 

[BigThor]

It's all in the details Joss.

Yep, it helps give the film more variety instead of everybody being just as strong as the next person.

 

[Poni_Boy]

the accidental death removes some of the heroism from it. i prefer the way it was done in the ultimates where he accepts he's going to die but goes ahead anyway because it will save more lives. i think that's what they were going for in TFA, but it wasn't handled particularly well.

Yep. Even though that is not my preferential Cap origin it works in the context of the book. Again, in my opinion, good concept poor/rushed execution

 

[The Infernal]

He didn't take it... anywhere. He just nosedived where he was. Sorry, lazy writing. As for his "choice" see my last post.

Again, I understand the concept but the execution was poor.

I just meant that he crashed it there. Personally I think you might just be reading too much into the scene.

Also your last post just reads as "it's not the comics". That doesn't bother me. It still holds true to Cap's story for the most part.

 

[The Morningstar]

Yep. Even though that is not my preferential Cap origin it works in the context of the book. Again, in my opinion, good concept poor/rushed execution

They should have a little bit of exposition saying that when he crashed the bomb/jet back into the Valkyrie it damaged the flap/rudder/whatever it is that steers a jet. The autopilot was locked in, he couldn't redirect it's course, so the only option was to nose dive it.

 

[BigThor]

Regarding Loki's staff, I'm pretty sure it's extendable seeing how it was much longer when he was fighting Thor on top of Stark Tower in the Japanese trailer.

 

[Scarlettess]

yup i think its extendable, note the scene when hes hitting the guard too. looks three times the length.

 

[BobbyCorwin88]

Since he was still thousands of miles away? Trying something else first would have been my guess. Break the controls, drops the bombs, crash the plane and try to "Super soldier" jump off. I dunno. Peggy's a fine piece of ass. I would have tried something.

Not to mention the fact that he seemed to have no trouble piloting those little individual bomb planes. Maybe he could have taken one of those out for a spin? It really made no sense how he crashed that plane.

I don't like to give too many props to the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon, but they actually handled Cap's freezing and Bucky's death in a much better way. Here's a sample. Start at about the 3 minute mark:
[YT]npcANA1WuI8[/YT]

Perfect if you ask me. Him getting frozen makes more sense and Bucky's death isn't a shallow mess anymore.

 

[Scarlettess]

Re: TFA ending Poni I agree with you about the ending, first time I saw it I was dissapointed he didn't even try anything else, not even try and get the system back on. I understand why though, but yeah more exposition was needed.

 

[Scarlettess]

Not to mention the fact that he seemed to have no trouble piloting those little individual bomb planes. Maybe he could have taken one of those out for a spin? It really made no sense how he crashed that plane.

I don't like to give too many props to the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon, but they actually handled Cap's freezing and Bucky's death in a much better way. Here's a sample. Start at about the 3 minute mark:
[YT]npcANA1WuI8[/YT]

Perfect if you ask me. Him getting frozen makes more sense and Bucky's death isn't a shallow mess anymore.

Video not available in this country!

 

[BobbyCorwin88]

Video not available in this country!

Sorry man! Basically Cap and Bucky board a rocket piloted by Red Skull that's presumably on course for the USA. Skull ejects and Bucky gets caught on the end of the rocket. Cap tries to free him, but since the rocket is set to explode Bucky kicks him off in order to save him. The rocket explodes with Bucky on it and Cap gets thrown into the arctic from the shock waves. I really thought it was handled well.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Not to mention the fact that he seemed to have no trouble piloting those little individual bomb planes. Maybe he could have taken one of those out for a spin? It really made no sense how he crashed that plane.

I don't like to give too many props to the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon, but they actually handled Cap's freezing and Bucky's death in a much better way. Here's a sample. Start at about the 3 minute mark:
[YT]npcANA1WuI8[/YT]

Perfect if you ask me. Him getting frozen makes more sense and Bucky's death isn't a shallow mess anymore.

One of the worst scenes & examples of storytelling I've seen within a CBM in years.

To add insult to injury, during the commentary Johnston states that in the 1/100th of a second where the camera's on Bucky when Steve finds him, he was apparently recovering from being "experimented on by Zola". What a load of crap.

Just show me Zola doing something to him. Don't tell me in a commentary that in that millisecond of a frame I'm supposed to discern that Bucky's been genetically enhanced.

And going back to the various battles. Why would you scrap almost all of them from the screenplay? And why scrap the ones you actually shot? Why not at least give us one FULL combat scene? So much time wasted on pointless stuff (Red Skull) that coulda been better used showcasing Captain America in action.

 

[BobbyCorwin88]

One of the worst scenes & examples of storytelling I've seen within a CBM in years.

To add insult to injury, during the commentary Johnston states that in the 1/100th of a second where the camera's on Bucky when Steve finds him, he was apparently recovering from being "experimented on by Zola". What a load of crap.

Just show me Zola doing something to him. Don't tell me in a commentary that in that millisecond of a frame I'm supposed to discern that Bucky's been genetically enhanced.

Seriously? Him being tortured wasn't good enough?

And going back to the various battles. Why would you scrap almost all of them from the screenplay? And why scrap the ones you actually shot? Why not at least give us one FULL combat scene? So much time wasted on pointless stuff (Red Skull) that coulda been better used showcasing Captain America in action.

I know. One full mission with Cap and the Howling Commandos was really all they needed to make all the characters relevant and let them actually work together. The guys at rifftrax said it best during the montage scene, "and now Captain America does a bunch of cool stuff for the trailer!"

 

[Chewy]

 

[Iceman]

You should.

Entertaining.

I will if you're recommending it.

RE: Sucker Punch. If you haven't seen it but insist on watching it, do so with the volume on mute, your favorite rock LP playing and pretend it's a very long music video. If you try to follow the "story" your brain will try to punch your eyes out.

Ha, sounds like a plan.

 

[kedrell]

I love all of Marvel Studios movies, and I re-watch them continuously, but the two with the strongest narratives are Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk. The rest, though they have great scenes and heartfelt moments, were not executed as well as they were sold to me.

I rank TIH(and Hulk is my absolute, all-time favorite fictional character, bar none!) as the weakest of all the Marvel Studios films(I still think it's good, just all the others are better) primarily because it's about the only time that they got the main character wrong in how they portrayed him. Cap, Thor & Iron Man were all pretty spot on in terms of getting the character and their personalities right. But if you don't make the Hulk a character in his own film then I gotta dock serious points off for that because that's not how the character is in the source material.