The Avengers vs X-Men: Days of Future Past

[Spider-Fan]

No it's not. Banner, Rogers, Thor and Loki have far meatier parts than Xavier, McCoy and Magneto did.

100% disagree. Xavier and Magneto definitely have equal parts to either Banner or Rogers in DoFP. In fact, I would go as far as to say Xavier was the main character of DoFP clearly. McCoy's role was about on par with Thor.

If we were talking X1-X3, I'd agree on the balance being poor. But, DoFP does a MUCH better job juggling the main mutants than the OT did.

And this is coming from someone that prefers The Avengers.

 

[Tony Stark]

I'll give you Xavier. Magneto and Mystique I felt were cut short. I loved the scene with Charles and Eric on the plane, but rather than expound on that, he goes off on his own and he has very little dialogue the rest of the film other than two short bits with Mystique.

McKellum as Magneto literally does nothing, and just when you think they are going to give him a touching death scene, you get nothing.

Yes DOFP does a better job, but other than the four we're talking about everyone else is window dressing. Joss just does ensemble on a level that no one else seems to be able to do it. It's his strength. Singer has some strengths that Joss doesn't have, just as any film maker has strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'll give you Xavier. Magneto and Mystique I felt were cut short. I loved the scene with Charles and Eric on the plane, but rather than expound on that, he goes off on his own and he has very little dialogue the rest of the film other than two short bits with Mystique.

McKellum as Magneto literally does nothing, and just when you think they are going to give him a touching death scene, you get nothing.

Yes DOFP does a better job, but other than the four we're talking about everyone else is window dressing. Joss just does ensemble on a level that no one else seems to be able to do it. It's his strength. Singer has some strengths that Joss doesn't have, just as any film maker has strengths and weaknesses.

Magneto in DoFP sure doesn't have a ton of dialogue perse, but he didn't need it. Magneto had an entire subplot featuring himself basically for a solid chunk of the movie, and in that portion he may not SAY a lot, but that doesn't mean he isn't being developed as a character. He still was, though it was visual. Same said for Mystique. She has a very well defined arc, and the film uses mostly visual elements for the journey as opposed to giving us a ton of exposition. I think both were very well used and developed well.

I will agree Avengers had more overall balance, but I just don't agree on it in regard to DoFP's 4 main leads. I think they get as much development as any Avenger does. But, the lesser Avengers get more development than, say, Colossus. Here, I agree. But, at the same time, I don't think DoFP really needed that, while Avengers does.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Saw this in another thread. Below is Critic reaction.

I just want to say I was looking at the RT for DOFP compared to Avengers and Dark Knight.

DOFP:

Total Critics: 92%
Top Critics: 98%
Audience: 95%

Avengers:

Total Critics: 92%
Top Critics: 83%
Audience: 91%

The Dark Knight:

Total Critics: 94%
Top Critics: 90%
Audience: 94%

 

[Spider-Fan]

DoFP is also newer. The audience rating for that can't exactly be measured vs Avengers or TDK at this point. Let's see that rating in a year. Same for IMDB.

 

[JP]

DoFP is also newer. The audience rating for that can't exactly be measured vs Avengers or TDK at this point. Let's see that rating in a year. Same for IMDB.

Pretty much.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I would go as far as to say Xavier was the main character of DoFP clearly.

You'd be correct.

The X-Films tend to have a main plot for the team and sub-plot delving into an individual character.

X-MEN

Main Plot:
Introducing and outlining Mutants place in the world with Magneto plotting to turn the world leaders into Mutants.

Sub Plot:
Rogue manifesting her powers and her reaction to them with her trying to find a safe haven and accept what she is.

X2: X-Men United

Main Plot:
Col. William Stryker using Xavier to try to eradicate all Mutants with the X-Men uniting with their enemies to stop this greater threat.

Sub Plot:
Wolverine trying to learn of his past and deciding to cease that search to embrace who is is now rather than finding out who's he was then.

X-Men 3: The Last Stand

Main Plot:
The Government know that Mutants are a threat to Mankind but they can't just kill them as it would be Inhumane, so they develop and cure which at first they offer but then force upon Mutants.

Sub Plot:
Jean Grey returns as Phoenix a Mutant with too much power and not enough humanity, while Magneto uses her the X-Men must kill their former teammate for the greater good.

X-Men First Class

Main Plot:
Charles Xavier and Erik Lensherr work with the CIA and some young Mutant recruits to stop Sebastian Shaw from starting World War 3.

Sub Plot:
Erik Lensherr hunts down the main who murdered his mother and experimented on him as a child, along the way he becomes Magneto, protector of Mutantkind and scourge of Humanity

X-Men: Days of Future Past

Main Plot:
The future X-Men send Wolverine back in time in a last ditch attempt to save the future for Human and mutants alike

Sub Plot:
Charles Xavier a broken and addicted Man comes to accept and embrace his destiny of becoming leader of Mutantkind

 

[Dr. Evil]

I liked the Avengers, but I like DOFP slightly better.

The Avengers showed one of the major flaws of the MCU, one that is very noticeable....lack of diversity. One woman and no POC in the Avengers? And Sam Jackson and Colbie Smulders do not count. With DOFP, you have Storm, Bishop, Blink, Sunspot and Warpath. Now, I don't want diversity just for the sake of it in Avengers 2 (it has to fit in the story), but it needs to be fixed. The addition of Liz Olsen in Avengers 2 does help a bit, but still no POC Avenger (I think Rhodey will be a cameo anyways).

 

[DA_Champion]

So I'm going to defend this, because the film did try to justify it. Magneto studied the plans for the Sentinels in detail. It is not outside the realm of possibility that he could hard wire the sentinels for different commands at that point if he was a skilled engineer... somehow.

No, really, it's impossible. Even if you look at the plans for your laptop for two hours, you won't be able to change its internal software by wrapping it in railroad tracks.

Magneto is not an engineer. He showed no engineering skills in 1962 and then he spent 10 years in isolation with no stimulation as computer software technology went from totally obscure to frequently used in the period 1963-1973.

Definitely one of the biggest plotholes in recent CBMs, and a symbol of Singer's laziness.

 

[DrCosmic]

No, really, it's impossible. Even if you look at the plans for your laptop for two hours, you won't be able to change its internal software by wrapping it in railroad tracks.

Magneto is not an engineer. He showed no engineering skills in 1962 and then he spent 10 years in isolation with no stimulation as computer software technology went from totally obscure to frequently used in the period 1963-1973.

Definitely one of the biggest plotholes in recent CBMs, and a symbol of Singer's laziness.

That's a really good point. There's really no way he could possibly know enough about computers. Still, he, in the analogy was putting metal inside of the laptop, and it's very possible for me to change the way my laptop works by putting metal inside of it on the circuitboard. Of course, if *I* do that, it will change to something that catches fire, but, y'know, Magneto's a quick study.

 

[DrCosmic]

I liked the Avengers, but I like DOFP slightly better.

The Avengers showed one of the major flaws of the MCU, one that is very noticeable....lack of diversity. One woman and no POC in the Avengers? And Sam Jackson and Colbie Smulders do not count. With DOFP, you have Storm, Bishop, Blink, Sunspot and Warpath. Now, I don't want diversity just for the sake of it in Avengers 2 (it has to fit in the story), but it needs to be fixed. The addition of Liz Olsen in Avengers 2 does help a bit, but still no POC Avenger (I think Rhodey will be a cameo anyways).

Interesting. I feel that. I do have a problem with Storm and Bishop getting killed first in that final scene, especially as this the second time in a row the black guy dies first because his power gets overridden. Bugger that. I would have been more swayed if there had been a mutant of color in the 70s timeline, or perhaps any reference at all to the extremely topical and extremely present civil rights movement.

But it was nice to see some women and POCs with some real powers. That was cool, I can't argue with that.

 

[georgec]

DoFP

Avengers was a great popcorn flick, but DoFP felt more intimate and emotionally charged to me.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Interesting. I feel that. I do have a problem with Storm and Bishop getting killed first in that final scene, especially as this the second time in a row the black guy dies first because his power gets overridden. Bugger that. I would have been more swayed if there had been a mutant of color in the 70s timeline, or perhaps any reference at all to the extremely topical and extremely present civil rights movement.

But it was nice to see some women and POCs with some real powers. That was cool, I can't argue with that.

My hope is that by Avengers 3, the diversity problem will be fixed. It's a very fixable issue, and I have a lot of confidence that Marvel will fix the problem.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

The Avengers showed one of the major flaws of the MCU, one that is very noticeable....lack of diversity. One woman and no POC in the Avengers? And Sam Jackson and Colbie Smulders do not count. With DOFP, you have Storm, Bishop, Blink, Sunspot and Warpath. Now, I don't want diversity just for the sake of it in Avengers 2 (it has to fit in the story), but it needs to be fixed. The addition of Liz Olsen in Avengers 2 does help a bit, but still no POC Avenger (I think Rhodey will be a cameo anyways).

DOFP is the epitome of diversity for the sake of it. Storm, Bishop, Blink, Sunspot, and Warpath are all disposable with no depth and characterization. All the important characters who drive the plot are white. It's ironic that you discount Fury, when he's practically far more developed as a character and hold greater importance not just to his film but also to his universe than any of the characters you mentioned.

 

[Dr. Evil]

DOFP is the epitome of diversity for the sake of it. Storm, Bishop, Blink, Sunspot, and Warpath are all disposable with no depth and characterization. All the important characters who drive the plot are white. It's ironic that you discount Fury, when he's practically far more developed as a character and hold greater importance not just to his film but also to his universe than any of the characters you mentioned.

Maybe so, but anyway, DOFP is more diverse than the Avengers.

 

[jmc]

The thing to remember is that the two films have different objectives, about the only thing they have in common is the team element. The Avengers really isn't about anything in particular, it's just a celebration of the superhero, X-Men (DoFP and earlier films) have always had a stronger underlying message to say and the more interesting characters. X-Men has also felt a lot more grounded, it's not really a superhero world as the MCU is, it's very much tried to paint itself with a slight real world brush. In the end though whether you prefer one over the other doesn't matter, what's important is the X-Men has now solidified itself as a franchise that will keep both WB and Marvel in check.

 

[T"Challa]

The thing to remember is that the two films have different objectives, about the only thing they have in common is the team element. The Avengers really isn't about anything in particular, it's just a celebration of the superhero, X-Men (DoFP and earlier films) have always had a stronger underlying message to say and the more interesting characters. X-Men has also felt a lot more grounded, it's not really a superhero world as the MCU is, it's very much tried to paint itself with a slight real world brush. In the end though whether you prefer one over the other doesn't matter, what's important is the X-Men has now solidified itself as a franchise that will keep both WB and Marvel in check.

Agreed with most of this but i'm not sure what 'Keeping them in check' means. Marvel and WB have had more success both critically and commercially than the X-Films. I'm not sure DOFP will make them rethink any of their current strategies.

 

[jmc]

It means there's a third alternative that both Marvel and WB will take note of.

 

[Legion]

No, really, it's impossible. Even if you look at the plans for your laptop for two hours, you won't be able to change its internal software by wrapping it in railroad tracks.

Magneto is not an engineer. He showed no engineering skills in 1962 and then he spent 10 years in isolation with no stimulation as computer software technology went from totally obscure to frequently used in the period 1963-1973.

Definitely one of the biggest plotholes in recent CBMs, and a symbol of Singer's laziness.

Did you see X-Men? Magneto created a machine that could turn humans into mutants. It didn't appear to utilize any software either, it was all mechanical. In X2 Magneto realigned the Dark Cerebro to target humans by shifting the machine's large metal plates.

In the comics Magneto definitely has genius level competence in engineering and physics.

Besides I'm pretty sure that Trask demonstrated that one of the primary components that the Sentinels used to logically distinguish human from mutant could be turned on and off manually. It's not stretch to think that Magneto used the metal inside to disable it and then controlled the Sentinels manually until he turned it back on in that one.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Saw this in another thread. Below is Critic reaction.

and these are the RT average ratings (the degree to which they liked the movie, not just the percentage of them that did):

Critic:
TDK - 8.5
Avengers - 8.0
DOFP - 7.6

Top Critic:
TDK - 8.0
Avengers - 7.8
DOFP - 7.7

Audience:
TDK - 4.4/5
Avengers - 4.4/5
DOFP - 4.5/5

 

[ares834]

No, really, it's impossible. Even if you look at the plans for your laptop for two hours, you won't be able to change its internal software by wrapping it in railroad tracks.

Magneto is not an engineer. He showed no engineering skills in 1962 and then he spent 10 years in isolation with no stimulation as computer software technology went from totally obscure to frequently used in the period 1963-1973.

Definitely one of the biggest plotholes in recent CBMs, and a symbol of Singer's laziness.

Frankly, I found the "destroy mother-ship all aliens shut down" plot point in the Avengers to be far more jarring.

Specifically since nothing hinted at this prior to it happening.

 

[titansupes]

DoFP on every level.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

Did you see X-Men? Magneto created a machine that could turn humans into mutants. It didn't appear to utilize any software either, it was all mechanical. In X2 Magneto realigned the Dark Cerebro to target humans by shifting the machine's large metal plates.

Yeah, but that's the older Magneto. Young Magneto has never demonstrated such technological savvy.

 

[jmc]

Emotional core wins over spectacle for me any day of the week, so gun to the head, I'll choose Days of Future Past.

 

[CountOrlok]

I haven't seen either movies but I love X-Men way more than The Avengers. The characters in X-Men are a lot more interesting. Also, the Avengers has a lack of female characters.. while X-Men has iconic ones like Storm, Rogue, Mystique, Jean Grey...

X-Men, no contest.