Arrow The Barry Allen/The Flash Thread - Part 2

[Kevin Smith]

I would rather not have Tina since she had little to no relation to Barry in the comics. I know that demanding adaptations to be too close to the comics is asking a little much, but the fact that Barry and Tina didn't even know each other there kind of puts me off of that idea. If they don't want to use Iris as the primary love interest, Patty is an acceptable alternative in my opinion.

I'll take anyone but this version of "Iris" at this point.

 

[Loki882]

In my experience,fans have become way too complacent about casting these days.Every casting choice is "brilliant" if it's "out of the box".(I.E. the person has next to nothing in common with the character being portrayed)

Funny, because in my experience, fans tend to do the exact opposite. They tend to instantly assume the worst and complain about how a particular casting choice cannot work. The tend to take the most pessimistic view of a particular project possible. And despite being proven wrong many times before, they still keep doing it. There's nothing "complacent" about waiting until we have ANY actual footage of the actors in action before judging their quality, that's simply common sense. To judge their performances before one second of footage has been revealed is quite frankly just dumb and ridiculous.

 

[roach]

Funny, because in my experience, fans tend to do the exact opposite. They tend to instantly assume the worst and complain about how a particular casting choice cannot work. The tend to take the most pessimistic view of a particular project possible. And despite being proven wrong many times before, they still keep doing it. There's nothing "complacent" about waiting until we have ANY actual footage of the actors in action before judging their quality, that's simply common sense. To judge their performances before one second of footage has been revealed is quite frankly just dumb and ridiculous.

 

[Loki882]

actually we kinda HAVE seen the characterization. At least in a couple of scenes. A couple of scenes that pretty bluntly define the relationship between Barry and Iris.

We've seen an audition tape for Iris, and a manuscript of the same scenes. Just because we haven't seen Gustin and Patton perform the roles in costume doesn't mean we haven't seen the characterization.

Honestly though I don't mind the way they're handling it. I think it connects Barry to Iris and Detective West in a way that provides more story potential, there's more material to mine from this way as the show goes on.

No we haven't. We've seen some brief shots out of context that aren't from the actual show and using scenes that may or may not actually be in the show (script's get rewritten all the time). We haven't seen nearly enough of anything to make judgments about it. We haven't seen them interact for an extended period of time to judge how layered their performances are or what the context still is. So yes, my point about jumping the gun still stands.

 

[JC00]

Funny, because in my experience, fans tend to do the exact opposite. They tend to instantly assume the worst and complain about how a particular casting choice cannot work. The tend to take the most pessimistic view of a particular project possible. And despite being proven wrong many times before, they still keep doing it. There's nothing "complacent" about waiting until we have ANY actual footage of the actors in action before judging their quality, that's simply common sense. To judge their performances before one second of footage has been revealed is quite frankly just dumb and ridiculous.

 

[roach]

 

[JC00]

fixed

 

[Shikamaru]

My problems with the supporting cast have nothing to do with the casting itself. They're entirely related to the direction. Do we really need another childhood friend to the protagonist that is a love interest and another Felicity-like role (Vibe)? They seem really cliche and redundant. Cliche because, in the case of the childhood friend route, we've seen it a gazillion times and redundant because we've seen them all in Arrow already (Laurel = childhood friend + love interest, Quentin = cop dad to the love interest (except this time he won't hate Barry), Vibe = Felicity-like role).

 

[JC00]

(Laurel = childhood friend + love interest

There has been no indication that Oliver and Laurel were ever childhood friends and the only time she was an actual love interest has been in the past tense.

 

[Shikamaru]

There has been no indication that Oliver and Laurel were ever childhood friends and the only time she was an actual love interest has been in the past tense.

Actually, they established it back in Season 1. Oliver, Tommy, and Laurel knew each other since they were kids. Laurel even references a time when she and Oliver visited the prison in Starling in 6th or 7th grade.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

I'm seems like most CW dramas have the same dynamics. I think these shows are designed with the goal in mind to draw in 'shippers.'

It's a network thing.

 

[Rorschach2012]

My problems with the supporting cast have nothing to do with the casting itself. They're entirely related to the direction. Do we really need another childhood friend to the protagonist that is a love interest and another Felicity-like role (Vibe)? They seem really cliche and redundant. Cliche because, in the case of the childhood friend route, we've seen it a gazillion times and redundant because we've seen them all in Arrow already (Laurel = childhood friend + love interest, Quentin = cop dad to the love interest (except this time he won't hate Barry), Vibe = Felicity-like role).

Yeah to be honest this does seem a bit like stuff we've seen before. I'm gonna wait til i see the first episode to judge though.

 

[JC00]

Actually, they established it back in Season 1. Oliver, Tommy, and Laurel knew each other since they were kids. Laurel even references a time when she and Oliver visited the prison in Starling in 6th or 7th grade.

There is a difference between being a childhood friend and knowing someone since middle school.

 

[Rorschach2012]

There is a difference between being a childhood friend and knowing someone since middle school.

I consider my middle school years my childhood

 

[DrCosmic]

My problems with the supporting cast have nothing to do with the casting itself. They're entirely related to the direction. Do we really need another childhood friend to the protagonist that is a love interest and another Felicity-like role (Vibe)? They seem really cliche and redundant. Cliche because, in the case of the childhood friend route, we've seen it a gazillion times and redundant because we've seen them all in Arrow already (Laurel = childhood friend + love interest, Quentin = cop dad to the love interest (except this time he won't hate Barry), Vibe = Felicity-like role).

Tropes Are Not Bad

Especially in this case where Vibe isn't an awkward fangirl with a crush on the hero, Iris isn't the hero's on-again-off-again ex and the dad cop is a valued ally instead of a dangerous enemy. We can sum up the cast of The Dark Knight or even Live Free or Die Hard in similar terms, but they're not similar, and it doesn't make any of them less interesting or entertaining. It's also a bit weird to say something is a cliché because you've seen it once before. Yes the love interest's cop dad is a repeat of arrow, but the way they're handling both those characters is totally different. It's hard to say that his one parallel will make it like arrow, much less redundant.

It MIGHT, though. They might totally screw it up, they might be out of ideas and are just throwing stuff at the wall to see what will stick. Or they might have put as much work into this as Arrow and understand how to tell a good story with Flash just like they do with Arrow. We'll see.

Naming the Flash

Y'know, the Hood gets his name from his most obvious characteristic. What if, just what if, when the average person Flash's appearing or acting just appears a flash of yellow light/electricity, and then things are different. Kind of like the Blur got his name, everyone would naturally start calling him "The Flash" without the need for that old 'newspaper names him' storyline which is, to put it lightly, outdated.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

I didn't like Dinah Laurel Lance being reinterpreted as someone Oliver grew up with and had a past relationship with.

It would be easier to buy into their relationship if they just met when he returned from the island and we could see their relationship developing from the start.

I loved the first meeting between Green Arrow and Dinah on JLU, when they were sparring.

 

[Paradox1]

I consider my middle school years my childhood

Middle school is preteen- teenage it's the time in most people lives when they say goodbye to childhood.

 

[DrCosmic]

That's my Iris.

 

[Shikamaru]

I'm seems like most CW dramas have the same dynamics. I think these shows are designed with the goal in mind to draw in 'shippers.'

It's a network thing.

I know it's a network thing. That doesn't make it a good idea though.

There is a difference between being a childhood friend and knowing someone since middle school.

They said they (Oliver, Tommy, Laurel) were close since they were kids.

Tropes Are Not Bad

Especially in this case where Vibe isn't an awkward fangirl with a crush on the hero,

Yeah, but it still seems unnecessary for Barry to have someone in that same role nonetheless. Especially since most incarnations of Barry (including this one, at least based on what we've seen of him in Arrow) already had the scientific knowledge to make most of the parts regarding Flash's suit.

Iris isn't the hero's on-again-off-again ex

No, but it is very in-your-face. Even if you don't know a thing about the Flash, you just know this will be who Barry ends up with at the end of the day when you go the childhood friend love interest route. It is an old cliche I have seen over and over again, especially in CW shows. I wish they were a bit more realistic and downplayed Barry's "true love". After all, that's how life works most of the time. Most married couples today weren't childhood friends.

and the dad cop is a valued ally instead of a dangerous enemy.

Quentin is a dangerous enemy?

We can sum up the cast of The Dark Knight or even Live Free or Die Hard in similar terms, but they're not similar,

Other than Rachel, not really.

and it doesn't make any of them less interesting or entertaining. It's also a bit weird to say something is a cliché because you've seen it once before. Yes the love interest's cop dad is a repeat of arrow, but the way they're handling both those characters is totally different. It's hard to say that his one parallel will make it like arrow, much less redundant.

It's not just one parallel though. I already brought up multiple parallels.

I guess it wouldn't bother me as much if it didn't parallel Arrow so much. It didn't bother me in Arrow for that same reason (because there was nothing before for it to parallel). But I wanted them to differentiate themselves from Arrow a bit more.

It MIGHT, though. They might totally screw it up, they might be out of ideas and are just throwing stuff at the wall to see what will stick. Or they might have put as much work into this as Arrow and understand how to tell a good story with Flash just like they do with Arrow. We'll see.

Of course I'll wait and see. That doesn't mean I don't have first impressions though.

 

[DrCosmic]

Yeah, but it still seems unnecessary for Barry to have someone in that same role nonetheless. Especially since most incarnations of Barry (including this one, at least based on what we've seen of him in Arrow) already had the scientific knowledge to make most of the parts regarding Flash's suit.

If we go by most incarnations of Barry, he doesn't need anyone at all, period. But we would never have a show with no supporting cast because a supporting cast is necessary for telling a good story, and so you find roles for them. Sometimes, in the case of characters that can do anything all on their own, like Batman, Green Arrow and Flash, you scale down their abilities so you can have a cast, because you need the hero to interact with people that they need.

No, but it is very in-your-face. Even if you don't know a thing about the Flash, you just know this will be who Barry ends up with at the end of the day when you go the childhood friend love interest route. It is an old cliche I have seen over and over again, especially in CW shows. I wish they were a bit more realistic and downplayed Barry's "true love". After all, that's how life works most of the time. Most married couples today weren't childhood friends.

But that's not how story works.

Quentin is a dangerous enemy?

Yes. Not deadly, but he definitely was a serious constant threat to Ollie's mission, freedom and relationships.

Other than Rachel, not really.

It's not just one parallel though. I already brought up multiple parallels.

Absolutely. Lucius is in a Felicity-like role, Alfred is in a Diggle-like role, Rachel as the childhood love interest. The only difference is Gordon isn't Rachel's father, though that would have simplified and deepened the story considerably, imho. Can you imagine if it had been Barbara Gordon who got asploded? Real tears.

I guess it wouldn't bother me as much if it didn't parallel Arrow so much. It didn't bother me in Arrow for that same reason (because there was nothing before for it to parallel). But I wanted them to differentiate themselves from Arrow a bit more.

Of course I'll wait and see. That doesn't mean I don't have first impressions though.

I wanted them to differentiate more too, but I also acknowledge that they have differentiated significantly. Barry+Iris is nothing like Ollie+Laurel. Barry arguing with Det. West is nothing like Ollie arguing with Det. Lance. I highly doubt that Iris' discussions with Papa West will have any semblance of similarity with Laurel's discussions with Quentin. This detail seems very small in context of how many things are different.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Started watching the 1990 Flash series and just finished the pilot. It was great, near movie quality for that time. The camera work and artistry was definite on par with what could have been in a movie; I loved the metaphor with Barry stating Pike made him right before Pike hits him into a "grave". The old Barry died there, replaced by the new Flash. The suit looks really cheesy imo but not so bad that it's distracting. I hope the suit they use in the CW version will be sleek.

I'd also expect another DC property to be added to the Arrow/Flash universe on the CW for the 2015-2016 season.

Young Justice.

My problems with the supporting cast have nothing to do with the casting itself. They're entirely related to the direction. Do we really need another childhood friend to the protagonist that is a love interest and another Felicity-like role (Vibe)? They seem really cliche and redundant. Cliche because, in the case of the childhood friend route, we've seen it a gazillion times and redundant because we've seen them all in Arrow already (Laurel = childhood friend + love interest, Quentin = cop dad to the love interest (except this time he won't hate Barry), Vibe = Felicity-like role).

I think you're missing the fact that a) It's an entire IT support group and b) they're backed by STAR Labs. Flash will be a STAR Labs creation and from the sounds of it they will more or less be using him as a tool to boost city moral and put a "face" on "hope". It's not as simple as being a Felicity-like role. I think there will be much more to it that that, whether Vibe himself realizes it or not.

There will also obviously be a different dynamic with the childhood friendship here because they're, you know, technically brother and sister and Barry did not **** Iris before ****ing her (non-existent) sister too. And West does not want to put a bullet in Barry's head from the start.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I really hope Iris' dad won't consider Barry his son after "adopting" him. It's just going to be too weird.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Middle school is preteen- teenage it's the time in most people lives when they say goodbye to childhood.

Whatever. I was still a child in middle school

 

[Paradox1]

Surrogate fathers don't nesscarly live with their "adopted" kids. So till we see what happens on screen I'm gonna keep in open mind.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

Hmm. I think Grant Gustin is the 2nd youngest actor right now playing a superhero.

Jen Lawrence as Mystique seems to be the youngest.