Arrow The Barry Allen/The Flash Thread - Part 2

[Mr. Dent]

Thanks for answering for me, hopefully the show won't suck.

But I hate to break it to you, but I'll always be around to talk about The Flash in some capacity. Whether it's film, TV, or comics. I want to make sure he gets his due. You'll just have to get over it.

Your attitude about this is disgusting.

 

[Boy Scout]

He's entitled to his opinion. I don't agree with it (or even pretend to understand it), but...there it is, I guess.

 

[Kevin Smith]

"OMFG she's going to be a psychology student instead of a reporter! DAT'S SO CW DRAMA!!!!!"

Everybody's a psychologist in television...and pretty much everything else. It's such a trendy profession and she can psychoanalyze Barry about his feelings and a whole bunch of touchy feely melodramatic crap synonymous with the psychologist shtick. How many characters do you know that are tv reporters? That aspect is a staple of Flash. And it's not just that it's the whole in love with my best friend we were kids together thing in addition to her race being changed for PC reasons that I don't care for that says suck to me.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Or Dick Grayson getting raped by Tarantula. Or the New 52 Teen Titans fiasco, etc. A LOT of comic book drama flat out sucks, or is even offensive.

I'm not in any way defending everything in the comics as there is plenty of ridiculous over the top stuff that's pretty bad and should never make it into live action, I'm saying the status quo of the stories on average is usually pretty good and should be maintained.... and is yes, better than your garden variety CW/Lifetime drama crap.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Your attitude about this is disgusting.

The first part of what I said was obviously sarcasm, but yes, I'm always going to be a diehard fan of The Flash and will want to see him get his fair treatment in any medium. We all have our favorites, if you think miner's disgusting, well....I don't really give a ****.

(All guys who have some relation to CBMs... ^^ )

 

[Charlie Boy]

Everybody's a psychologist in television...and pretty much everything else. It's such a trendy profession and she can psychoanalyze Barry about his feelings and a whole bunch of touchy feely melodramatic crap synonymous with the psychologist shtick. How many characters do you know that are tv reporters? That aspect is a staple of Flash. And it's not just that it's the whole in love with my best friend we were kids together thing in addition to her race being changed for PC reasons that I don't care for that says suck to me.

But she's not actually a psychologist. She's studying psychology. We have no idea where Iris will end up when this series is all said and done. How many television reporters do you know of in their early 20's?

Why not wait reserve judgement for the final product? You have absolutely nothing to lose. Perhaps they made Iris a psychologist instead of a television reporter to further her from the Lois Lane, journalist angle? Perhaps being a television reporter didn't test well with focus groups? Maybe they just wanted to change things up a bit. In the end, as long as it works, what's the problem?

 

[Mr. Dent]

strong triple post

 

[Kevin Smith]

The psychologist bit is just sort of like the profession du jour, IMO, you know...?

 

[Kevin Smith]

But she's not actually a psychologist. She's studying psychology. We have no idea where Iris will end up when this series is all said and done. How many television reporters do you know of in their early 20's?

Why not wait reserve judgement for the final product? You have absolutely nothing to lose. Perhaps they made Iris a psychologist instead of a television reporter to further her from the Lois Lane, journalist angle? Perhaps being a television reporter didn't test well with focus groups? Maybe they just wanted to change things up a bit. In the end, as long as it works, what's the problem?

I'm not saying the profession bit won't work that's my least of worries with the Iris they've concocted, it's more all the other things I've mentioned that I have a strong dislike for, and while it is possible they changed it for those reasons it's highly more likely to me that it was just a creator/executive personal preference a la Jon Peter's giant spider and no flights rule. And while it's true we don't know where Iris will end up eventually, it seems unlikely that they'll switch her profession to that of a reporter after going through all that effort to establish her as psychologist chick. But I digress, who knows, maybe in season 2 they'll do it because the fans will want it or something, like Ollie's mask. Lois is a journalist, an investigative one, a print reporter, it's not the same as a reporter who does TV work. Yeah yeah I know they're reporters but it's not at all the same and I get tired if hearing that. The only reason I could ever get behind them changing her profession is if they thought it was truly too much like Lois Lane's, which after a lot of hesitation and a lot of arguing, I'd be willing to accept for the sake of the adaptation...maybe...because I could see where they were coming from with it somewhat.

EDIT: a tv reporter in her early 20s is no more far fetched than a forensic scientist in his early 20s.

 

[Paradox1]

The psychologist bit is just sort of like the profession du jour, IMO, you know...?

More than Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne and Barry Allen all having serious relationships with a reporter?

 

[KillerMcQueen]

The psychologist bit is just sort of like the profession du jour, IMO, you know...?

To be fair so was journalism/reporter. Countless heroes had journalist/reporter girlfriends a la Lois Lane: Vicki Vale, Iris West, Linda Park, etc. I have no problem with them switching it. In a way it falls under the category of the more things change the more they stay the same.

 

[Boy Scout]

Everybody's a psychologist in television...

Since when? I'd say cops, lawyers, and businessmen are far more prevalent.

It's such a trendy profession and she can psychoanalyze Barry about his feelings and a whole bunch of touchy feely melodramatic crap synonymous with the psychologist shtick.

Ignoring the potential of having a licensed psychologist in the main cast shows a lack of imagination IMO.

How many characters do you know that are tv reporters?

How many characters do you know that are psychologists? I can only think of two, and only one of them is on a CW series.

I think we should just wait until we have a better understanding of what they want to do with the character before we judge whether or not changing her profession was a good or bad thing.

And it's not just that it's the whole in love with my best friend we were kids together thing in addition to her race being changed for PC reasons that I don't care for that says suck to me.

You've yet to see the character do anything or interact with anyone. You don't know if you'll like her or not, and convincing yourself that you won't will make it happen no matter what they do with her.

 

[JC00]

Linda Park.

Hey at least these guys complaining have to give credit because in the Arrow/Flash Universe Linda Park is an actual reporter.

 

[DrCosmic]

editing to keep things more concise:

Like bang babies? I hope not. The Flash's rogues need to be like Batman's but with superpowers like Superman's or Spider-Man's.

I did think about Bang Babies, and yeah, that makes the most sense. Like Smallville's Kryptonite, there's always filtered phlebotinum so characters can have a unique-ish origin story and not all be 'woke up with powers on the same day.' That actually could be weird.

Speaking of Spidey, the newest incarnation of Spider-Man has all the villain powers coming out of Oscorps animal-human-fusion-thingy project. It's tidy. Smart. Superman's foes are all over the place, and as a result, he has one of the weaker rogues galleries of the A-list heroes. He's not someone you want to pattern after when it comes to bad guys.

Consider me team real Flash.

But that's where you "wait and see" types get it wrong.We're not judging if the performance will be good before seeing it,we're judging if the actor is a good fit given the nature of the character.

Is Michael Douglas going to give a good performance as Hank Pym?If I were a betting man,I'd say yes.But I already know he's not going to give me the character I wanted to see.Good actor/poor fit for the character based on what I expected from the original concept of the character.See how that works?

You guys are crazy superficial. What's really crazy is that you're totally superficial, and don't give one consideration for the nature of the character, only the visuals and then call yourselves proponents of "The real." You have zero information about if these people will capture the nature of the characters, Hank Pym included. All you know is they won't capture the visuals.

But if someone captures the visuals, but the nature of the character is completely different, to these "real character" types, that's "The real character." Totally superficial.

 

[Sawyer]

I'm about to give y'all three snaps in a Z formation.

 

[Mr. Dent]

editing to keep things more concise:



I did think about Bang Babies, and yeah, that makes the most sense. Like Smallville's Kryptonite, there's always filtered phlebotinum so characters can have a unique-ish origin story and not all be 'woke up with powers on the same day.' That actually could be weird.

Speaking of Spidey, the newest incarnation of Spider-Man has all the villain powers coming out of Oscorps animal-human-fusion-thingy project. It's tidy. Smart. Superman's foes are all over the place, and as a result, he has one of the weaker rogues galleries of the A-list heroes. He's not someone you want to pattern after when it comes to bad guys.




You guys are crazy superficial. What's really crazy is that you're totally superficial, and don't give one consideration for the nature of the character, only the visuals and then call yourselves proponents of "The real." You have zero information about if these people will capture the nature of the characters, Hank Pym included. All you know is they won't capture the visuals.

But if someone captures the visuals, but the nature of the character is completely different, to these "real character" types, that's "The real character." Totally superficial.

Rather than superficial, I'd just say they don't let a pesky thing like logic influence their opinions.

 

[Human Torch]

But they work in the context they're told in for the most part. The CW stuff is just bad. The drama in comics takes backseat to the action and superheroes - why we pick up the books to begin with, among other things, and not vice versa.They're cool and exciting and fun. The CW stuff just dulls and bores the **** out of me and draws out and overdramatizes the most boring of stuff.

Yeah.That's what keeps Arrow from scoring higher in the "greatest SH show ever" category for me.I think Arrow has taken a big step this season to find,at least, a balance.But there have been a few note worthy eye rollers still.

If you don't think Flash will have at least as many "growing pains" during the first season,you're kidding yourself.

 

[Human Torch]

Didn't Ollie get raped by somebody too?

Sounds like every male hero in the DC Universe has been raped at one point or other.

That's plenty messed up.

 

[Human Torch]

Everybody's a psychologist in television...and pretty much everything else. It's such a trendy profession and she can psychoanalyze Barry about his feelings and a whole bunch of touchy feely melodramatic crap synonymous with the psychologist shtick. How many characters do you know that are tv reporters? That aspect is a staple of Flash. And it's not just that it's the whole in love with my best friend we were kids together thing in addition to her race being changed for PC reasons that I don't care for that says suck to me.

I agree.It's like taking away a point for every change.
Iris is now:
A psychologist -1
Foster/Step sister to Barry-1
Has a detective daddy (cougharrowcough) -1
Black (Yeah,call it superficial,it's still a change)-1

The new Iris is at best 6/10 in the purist test.At what point are we allowed to say she has little in common with the original character?

 

[Charlie Boy]

Yet they've changed a myriad of things with Oliver Queen, by your logic, we should take away a point for every change they've made for him.

Oliver now:

Has a sister -1
A mother who is still alive -1
Childhood friends with Merlyn, The Dark Archer's son -1
Trained by Deathstroke -1
Murders people -1
Has a nerdy, tech-geek who operates as his Oracle or Chloe Sullivan -1
Has a "body guard" -1
Is dark and brooding instead of his trademark activist-humanitarian type personality -1
Doesn't have his trademark blonde hair or vandyke beard (Yeah, call it superficial, it's still a change) -2

Oliver Queen is at best -0/10 in your purist test.

Arrow is being heralded as one of the best television shows based on a comic book character. So why not have a little faith in the producers?

 

[LongbowHunter]

Yet they've changed a myriad of things with Oliver Queen, by your logic, we should take away a point for every change they've made for him.

Oliver now:

Has a sister -1
A mother who is still alive -1
Childhood friends with Merlyn, The Dark Archer's son -1
Trained by Deathstroke -1
Murders people -1
Has a nerdy, tech-geek who operates as his Oracle or Chloe Sullivan -1
Has a "body guard" -1
Is dark and brooding instead of his trademark activist-humanitarian type personality -1
Doesn't have his trademark blonde hair or vandyke beard (Yeah, call it superficial, it's still a change) -2

Oliver Queen is at best -0/10 in your purist test.

Arrow is being heralded as one of the best television shows based on a comic book character. So why not have a little faith in the producers?

very well said!
I mean i love, i really love, comic book Ollie, but the changes they've made turned out to be very interesting as story-material (most of them anyways) and the character is becoming more and more like his CB counterpart...just with some changed details .F.e. I like the fact that after returning he must be totally haunted by the island and brooding but that he lightens up after a while...it's actually something I often miss in the CBs...they often aknowledge the fact that Ollie cannot be as lighthearted as he seems all the time, but they do never really show that...I admit, at first they probably did that characterization as a Batman-nod but now it really gives a good foundation for the more traditional Oliver Queen. That's also my opinion with über-nerdy-PeterParker-Barry...I think it will be something to work with...so that he starts off like that and can go in many different directions later. Changes to the supporting cast can be really refreshing too, no matter how inpure (is that the opposite of pure?) they are compared to the source...I actually like the Ollie Thea Moira dynamic f.e. and the comics sometimes just don't change the supporting cast out of lazyness and a wrong sense of tradition...there may be a lot of good stories to tell with this changes wich can help establish the heroes we love (as they are) in a new universe (which is different from the original CBU).

 

[DrRocket]

Personally I hope they do change stuff from the comics and it isn't just a retrend, kinda like arrow

 

[Loki882]

Sounds like every male hero in the DC Universe has been raped at one point or other.

That's plenty messed up.

In Oliver's case, he was raped by Shado in the comics, and she had a child as a result of it. You could also kind of argue that Tim Drake was raped in the New 52 TT run, although that's been debated by some people.

 

[Loki882]

Yet they've changed a myriad of things with Oliver Queen, by your logic, we should take away a point for every change they've made for him.

Oliver now:

Has a sister -1
A mother who is still alive -1
Childhood friends with Merlyn, The Dark Archer's son -1
Trained by Deathstroke -1
Murders people -1
Has a nerdy, tech-geek who operates as his Oracle or Chloe Sullivan -1
Has a "body guard" -1
Is dark and brooding instead of his trademark activist-humanitarian type personality -1
Doesn't have his trademark blonde hair or vandyke beard (Yeah, call it superficial, it's still a change) -2

Oliver Queen is at best -0/10 in your purist test.

Arrow is being heralded as one of the best television shows based on a comic book character. So why not have a little faith in the producers?

While I agree with most of those, you need to take a couple off the list.
-Oliver has murdered people in the comics, on several different occasions.
-Oliver had been dark and brooding in the comics as well, on several different occasions.

 

[Loki882]

I know. But the kid wasn't technically Damian until it was a rape.

And I found Morrison's Talia more interesting than any other version of her. So, kinda glad he "destroyed" her.

Yes, the one-dimensional psycho ***** femme fatale was so much more "interesting" than the multi-layered, morally complicated, three-dimensional character that she was pre-Morrison, not. Morrison ruined her like he ruined Magneto.