Comics The Build to ASM #700

Someone mentioned this

I don't know what is their way of planning is, it's......
Silence is the best response
 
I've been reading ASM For such a long time

ASM #700 was so bad... Doc Ock as the new spider-man is even worse.

This comic was so bad Stan lee even dissed it smh

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Just read the issue.

Words cannot describe how much of a "**** you!" this feels like. Words can't even describe. This is a bigger insult to the fans that One More Day was. Yes, I went there and no, I am not taking that back.

This is an insult in so many ways but it is an insult particularly to the fans, to the character of Peter/Spider-Man and his iconic image, to Doc Ock, and to MJ and Peter's relationship with MJ. Reading some of the comments on the internet, I am noticing that there are some people that really like this. It really shocks me that I have to sit down and explain how much of an insult this is due to people not realizing it.

Let's start with the character of Peter Parker/Spider-Man. This is an insult to the character due to the way he is killed. This is the most pathetic death I have ever seen in Marvel comics, at least for a superhero. Captain America's death had more meaning than this. Peter dies in the most pathetic way possible while being trapped in his villain's body and begging his villain to not do anything bad while he is gone. I find that incredibly insulting to Spider-Man, seeing him die in such a pathetic way especially since he is Marvel's top character and is in the top 3 when it comes to most iconic superheroes to ever exist. His death in Ultimate, though still forced, still wasn't anywhere as pathetic as this and at least had some depth and meaning behind it. It's funny how the defense they used when they killed Spider-Man in Ultimate was "Why do you care? He is still alive in Amazing! Go read Amazing if you want to see Peter!" Well, now he is dead in BOTH universes. So what excuse does Marvel have now?

Next is Doc Ock. How the hell does Ock become a good guy at the end just because he saw all of Peter's memories? That makes no sense at all and it's completely out of character for him. Ock is one of the most arrogant Spider-Man villains around, in not then THE most arrogant Spider-Man villain. He is one of the least likely villains to become a good guy just because he saw Spider-Man's memories.

Next is MJ and Peter's relationship with MJ. They hit the bottom of the barrel here. So first they break them up in the most BS way and create the worst Spider-Man story to ever exist (well, at least until now). Then they establish that MJ doesn't want to be with Peter because she is Spider-Man even though she loves him - which makes no sense to begin with because she already learned to accept that years ago so they technically sent her back years in character development. But now all of the sudden, she is going to hook up with Peter and doesn't really give a crap he is Spider-Man. Why? Because he is all "edgy" and "dark" and "cool" now. They really took their relationship and MJ's character to an all-time-low. I honestly don't know how you can insult her character and her relationship with Peter now any more than this.

Then it's the fans. This is an insult to the fans and their intelligence because...well...see everything above. That pretty much sums it up. And now that I'm thinking about it even more while writing this, this is also an insult to Uncle Ben and to the message of WGPCGR. So Uncle Ben tells him that he has done enough and that he should let someone else be Spider-Man now. I don't buy he would ever say that but whatever. However, the person that supposedly takes his place is Ock? Really? And from what we know, he doesn't really seem to know that with great power comes great responsibility. Even though he is somehow strangely a superhero now, he still seems to have his arrogant personality by the end of the issue and we already know Spider-Man will be a lot darker starting with Superior Spider-Man #1 and may possibly even kill people from now on. That does not sound to me like someone who has learned the message of WGPCGR.

Overall, this is an incredible stupid idea and it is insulting in so many ways. Do you guys want to know why Slott even wrote this to begin with? He said in a recent interview that he always thought Doc Ock was just like him because they're both fat and small.

"Doc is kinda like me: He's short and schlubby. This is a guy who now gets to be in the body of Peter Parker. This opens up whole new things."

Read in between the lines and you can realize what he did. He killed off Peter Parker in the most pathetic way possible so that he could get the chance to indirectly write himself as Spider-Man. This is all a self-insertion fantasy for him.


Also, did editor Stephen Wacker admit that their strategy is to just outlast the fans until they're replaced by people who only know these characters as-is? I've been hearing people say that he said that in some interview. I've been trying to look for it but found nothing so far.
 
This is sort of disgustingly bad. I don't want to be too hyperbolic but all of this hurts my stomach.
 
I don't really get the silly reaction to this comic. It's all drama.

I find the length of deaths these days is directly proportional to the hype. Captain America? Ton of hype, stayed dead a couple of years. Thor? Zilch hype, dead maybe six months. Bucky? Dead a month. Hell, Hal Jordan's dead right now and there was no Hype at all. I say he's back by April.

If you're not interested in reading a story about Doc Ock, okay, that makes sense--but why the drama? Unless you're the world's most naive comic book reader, you know that every major character on the field has died and come back in the last ten years--and in the past twenty years, I imagine some of them have died twice. Hell, Peter Parker died in The Other and came back the next damn issue! So again: Drama--why? Because he's going to be gone six or twelve or eighteen months? Hell, you'll have to wait longer for the next movie, so I don't get it.

Incidentally, comparing this to OMD is silly. One More Day was a sloppy retcon that was wrapped in an even sloppier story that had no concept or potential beyond "Umarry Peter." At least this is trying to provide some new material (regardless of how one feels personally). At the end of the day, this is going to add something to the mythology (hint: it's going to be how the experience has changed Doctor Octopus after Peter comes back). The rest of the toys, Peter included, will go back in the box the way they always do (see: Wasp, Thor, Cap, Bucky, Cable, Batman, Superboy, Kid Flash, and every major character to see a "death" story in the past twenty years). Eventually Ock will go back in the box too (forget Peter is Spider-man, etc.), which is disappointing, but thems the breaks.

In the interim, I actually want to read Superior Spider-Man because I love Doctor Octopus. I don't mind waiting twelve months for Slott and company to announce Spider-Man Reborn or whatever they call it, if it means I get to read an ongoing series about Doctor Octopus in the meantime.

This is comics, and these characters are fifty years old. Take the long view. They aren't going anywhere.
 
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I felt the ending was pretty underwhelming and possibly undermines the entire point of Superior (if I understand the point in the first place lol). To me it doesn't simply question if Otto's change of heart was sincere, but seems to suggest that it's more a result of Peter's mind-screw he gave Ock. Up until then Ock never really showed any meaningful capacity towards change and it looks like Slott and co. just want us to take it as granted that Ock sincerely wants this.

To me it seems somewhat forced. It's a shame because there are some interesting things you can do with a different Spider-man to Peter Parker. However, I think they've just went completely the wrong way about it (by that I mean the whole body swap gag rather than the lackluster explanation for why Ock might suddenly want to be a superhero).

Though saying that I'm still planning on giving Superior the benefit of the doubt for a few issues. If it doesn't look promising after that then I'll move on.
I agree that Ock's change of heart was forced. Execution lacking, but conceptually intriguing, so I intend to read Superior with the expectation that we'll see a more in depth exploration of Otto's change of heart as the series goes on.

I'll be disappointed if that doesn't occur.

I also would have been happier if Otto somehow became Spider-Man without the bodyswap, because I find the inevitable plotlines that arise from bodyswaps tiresome. It's going to be all "Gee, Peter sure is acting funny" and etcetera, and that's going to distract me from what I really want to see, which is Doctor Spider-Man, haha.
 
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It's funny how the defense they used when they killed Spider-Man in Ultimate was "Why do you care? He is still alive in Amazing! Go read Amazing if you want to see Peter!" Well, now he is dead in BOTH universes. So what excuse does Marvel have now?
Watch Ultimate cartoon, maybe..?

And now that I'm thinking about it even more while writing this, this is also an insult to Uncle Ben and to the message of WGPCGR. So Uncle Ben tells him that he has done enough and that he should let someone else be Spider-Man now.
You make really good points, but I have to defend Ben in this issue.
Ben: "Peter, you have the right to rest, but you have one thing to do before you go"
I took it he means "Go back to you body"

Overall, this is an incredible stupid idea and it is insulting in so many ways. Do you guys want to know why Slott even wrote this to begin with? He said in a recent interview that he always thought Doc Ock was just like him because they're both fat and small.

"Doc is kinda like me: He's short and schlubby. This is a guy who now gets to be in the body of Peter Parker. This opens up whole new things."

Read in between the lines and you can realize what he did. He killed off Peter Parker in the most pathetic way possible so that he could get the chance to indirectly write himself as Spider-Man. This is all a self-insertion fantasy for him.
A few comments come to mind, they're best not told here
 
I find the length of deaths these days is directly proportional to the hype. Captain America? Ton of hype, stayed dead a couple of years. Thor? Zilch hype, dead maybe six months. Bucky? Dead a month. Hell, Hal Jordan's dead right now and there was no Hype at all. I say he's back by April.
Again? How many times can they kill a character?
 
I think's Ock's change of heart comes more into play because he's been sharing his mind with Peter's mind AND body... and it was slowly having an effect on him... same thing was happening with Peter in Ock's body... just look at how defensive Spidey-Ock got when Aunt May was threatened by the Scorpion... he even says "Where the hell did that come from?"...

I think being overwhelmed by Peter's life... all the anguish and misery... made him soft at the moment.

ALSO.... if YOU READ Avenging Spider-Man #15.1... Ock is acting like a villain all over again (sort of), and it was only when he broke into one of his old lairs where he realizes what a ****ing loser he was as Otto and this makes him vow to be a better Spider-Man than Spider-Man ever was...

When you read AvSM, it makes more sense how it plays out...

:yay:
 
It made less sense
ASM 700 ends with Ock being really good in mind
Avenging had him conceited, AGAIN
Then he goes soft again
 
I think Ock will be fighting the "good versus bad" for a while... unless the surprises in SSM #1 make him more "good" for speciofic reasons...

:yay:
 
I think Ock will try to be what he thinks is a "superior" Spider-Man, but as time goes by, he'll learn what really made Pete the "superior" Spider-Man. I can see him redeeming himself and allow Pete to return, either if Pete is still inside him fighting for control, or allowing the octobot to finish its mission, injecting the "soul molecule" of Pete.
 
What I will say is undeniably great about Avenging Spider-Man 15.1 is Ock admitting he was a loser
 
Nothing is as bad as OMD
ASM 700 is pretty decent, it built the road for some interesting interaction between Ock and certain characters, even more from the new perspective
 
Having read it, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. It was quite cleverly done, to be fair for a comic it's 20 or so pages. On TV and movie you can make things more convincing. So I was reasonably surprised with how it came out, it wasn't perfect, some seemed a bit silly but it's an interesting idea definitely.

Did anyone else think that Ock's dying body looked like one of the worm guys from Men in Black?
 
The only really disappointing part is that he has to pretend to be Peter (which, for the drama queens, is a big indicator on how temporary this story is--that's not a sustainable plotline).

I really, really like this idea of Doctor Octopus with a second chance at life, young again, strong, as someone who's trying to turn his life around and be the sort of superior person he's always claimed to be. What's unfortunate is that he has to pretend to be Peter, and I'd much rather just read him being his honest self--or his honest self trying to be a better person. It also means it won't last long, which is too bad. Of course, as I mentioned earlier, the real test is going to be what happen's to Otto when Peter comes back. Hopefully, it's something that allows the idea of his second chance to continue, though not as Peter Parker.
 
I think Ock will try to be what he thinks is a "superior" Spider-Man, but as time goes by, he'll learn what really made Pete the "superior" Spider-Man. I can see him redeeming himself and allow Pete to return, either if Pete is still inside him fighting for control, or allowing the octobot to finish its mission, injecting the "soul molecule" of Pete.
Yeah this makes sense because I was a little ticked off that Doc Ock said he would be a better Spider-Man than Pete, which shows that he didn't really understand everything about spider-man during all those flashbacks of all those deaths. I just can't imagine how any spider-man could be superior to Peter.
 

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