BvS The BvS Rumor/Speculation Discussion Thread! - Part 4

[BH/HHH]

I'm currently watching The Batman episode(s) 'The Batman Superman Story' and in the first part Luthor makes Superman bow to him using a mixture Poison Ivy made with Kryptonite dust particles. Had me thinking about the kneeling scene in BvS and some peoples theories of a clone. Could it be possible he finds some way to simply control or maybe 'persuade' Superman in some moments in the film using a method similar to this?

Anyway just a thought, I still personally believe he has him 'kneeling' due to him simply having Kryptonite. I also think that scene Batman will be waiting in the wings and that is a scene where they have actually become allies at that point.

 

[mithravishnu]

You guys make it sound like every character is getting equal screentime. It's a bunch of bit parts. If they weren't superheroes, no one would be flinching at the number of characters in the film. Everyone just gets all tight because they happen to have powers.

 

[rogbngp]

You guys make it sound like every character is getting equal screentime. It's a bunch of bit parts. If they weren't superheroes, no one would be flinching at the number of characters in the film. Everyone just gets all tight because they happen to have powers.

People's taste on this is going to vary for sure. Many are liking it, and I will acknowledge that it could be successfully executed.

The issue I would have is that is that it risks mucking up a really good telling of the simpler story that we're expecting. Rather than taking the time to tell a simpler story in a quality way (which I think the story we've been led to expect can be) it would seem to be motivated by a rush to catch up to Marvel. I feel DC Films should take its own sweet time and just stay focused on what it needs to do for itself--not in reaction to the MCU.

Reportedly the DCEU isn't doing origin stories for all of the JL. That's fine with me just as long as we get to really know the characters in well told stories.

Take AoU. Although entertaining overall, to me was nevertheless a bit of a mess because it tried to pack in too many story arcs with not enough time allotted to develop characters individually because of that. Note that Civil War is looking like it will actually be a more intimate story about relationships between the Avengers than the comic book extravaganza. I think Marvel learned an important lesson from AoU, even if it was financially successful (see here). You have to keep the focus on characters and their relationships, and make us care about them. A movie can only spread itself so thin in doing that.

 

[DeadPresident]

You guys make it sound like every character is getting equal screentime. It's a bunch of bit parts. If they weren't superheroes, no one would be flinching at the number of characters in the film. Everyone just gets all tight because they happen to have powers.

Psht, everyone knows you take the number of characters and divide them by the movie's running time, and that's how much screen time they'll get

 

[Da-Scribe]

People's taste on this is going to vary for sure. Many are liking it, and I will acknowledge that it could be successfully executed.

The issue I would have is that is that it risks mucking up a really good telling of the simpler story that we're expecting. Rather than taking the time to tell a simpler story in a quality way (which I think the story we've been led to expect can be) it would seem to be motivated by a rush to catch up to Marvel. I feel DC Films should take its own sweet time and just stay focused on what it needs to do for itself--not in reaction to the MCU.

Reportedly the DCEU isn't doing origin stories for all of the JL. That's fine with me just as long as we get to really know the characters in well told stories.

Take AoU. Although entertaining overall, to me was nevertheless a bit of a mess because it tried to pack in too many story arcs with not enough time allotted to develop characters individually because of that. Note that Civil War is looking like it will actually be a more intimate story about relationships between the Avengers than the comic book extravaganza. I think Marvel learned an important lesson from AoU, even if it was financially successful (see here). You have to keep the focus on characters and their relationships, and make us care about them. A movie can only spread itself so thin in doing that.

It just seems like fans are projecting their own worries onto this production, despite having no real evidence other than a character count to back it up. You say DC should take its time, but how are they not? BvS went into production like two and a half years ago. So, its just not clear to me how a few cameos means the films is rushing and reacting to Marvel.

And I don't think it's correct to say Marvel learned anything from AoU. AoU made a lot of money and got great reviews, regardless of the reaction of a small group of people. And Civil War had already begun filming before AoU had even come out. So to say that Civil War is in any way a response to AoU in the sense that Marvel decided to alter the story seems, again, like fan projection. Is there any other evidence to back up that story than just some guy and his apparent source at Disney?

 

[rogbngp]

It just seems like fans are projecting their own worries onto this production, despite having no real evidence other than a character count to back it up. You say DC should take its time, but how are they not? BvS went into production like two and a half years ago. So, its just not clear to me how a few cameos means the films is rushing and reacting to Marvel.

And I don't think it's correct to say Marvel learned anything from AoU. AoU made a lot of money and got great reviews, regardless of the reaction of a small group of people. And Civil War had already begun filming before AoU had even come out. So to say that Civil War is in any way a response to AoU in the sense that Marvel decided to alter the story seems, again, like fan projection. Is there any other evidence to back up that story than just some guy and his apparent source at Disney?

I'm basing what I said on this report (reliability of info we can only guess at) and my own sense of what was wrong with AoU and the approach it looks like Civil War might be taking to having lots of superheroes in one film. So you're right that it is speculative on my part.

The 'take their time' part is not literal in the sense of how long BvS's production has taken, but rather the approach to how much content gets placed into one film in the grander design of developing the CU.

Hey, time will tell. We'll find out shortly whether what I'm speculating here seems to be correct or not. I may be wrong.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I guess I'm just not clear on how cameos can muddy up the big picture of the DCEU, specifically BvS.

 

[rogbngp]

I guess I'm just not clear on how cameos can muddy up the big picture of the DCEU, specifically BvS.

I can only speak for myself, but within the film's actual story, for cameos all I'm hoping for is something akin to the now long rumored glimpses of Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg:

Spoiler

Flash is just a blur that will be seen streaking by at some point.

Aquaman is seen held captive in a glass aquarium cage at A.R.G.U.S., defiantly slapping his hand onto the glass.

Victor Stone will be seen on the field as a pro football player.

But again, if they do show a Watchmen style montage at the end of the film, then I think we'd get at least one more glimpse of each of them, perhaps. This, for example, might be where we see Ezra Miller in the 'post-apocalyptic' version of the uniform that he mentions Wilkinson created for his character.

 

[Sharkboy]

It just seems like fans are projecting their own worries onto this production, despite having no real evidence other than a character count to back it up. You say DC should take its time, but how are they not? BvS went into production like two and a half years ago. So, its just not clear to me how a few cameos means the films is rushing and reacting to Marvel.

And I don't think it's correct to say Marvel learned anything from AoU. AoU made a lot of money and got great reviews, regardless of the reaction of a small group of people. And Civil War had already begun filming before AoU had even come out. So to say that Civil War is in any way a response to AoU in the sense that Marvel decided to alter the story seems, again, like fan projection. Is there any other evidence to back up that story than just some guy and his apparent source at Disney?

Hardly, look at any aggregate site and you'll see that it's reaction was significantly lesser than that of it's predecessor, it's largely viewed as an inferior sequel, but I do get your point...the Marvel train moves so fast it's tough to imagine there being a "response" to it so early in the game. I do think an appropriate one would be to scale things back, and I hope Snyder got the memo way before all of this the minute he decided to make this film.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Not saying it was better than Avengers, but it still made a lot of money and got great reviews. That's just the reality of the situation. Marvel isn't suddenly restructuring their whole creative process because a small group of fans didn't like it. At any rate, there's no need to scale things back. Just balance things out.

 

[BH/HHH]

Another though I've had...

Say Bruce knows Clark is Superman, could the branding be to call Superman out? I mean look at the symbol that's branded aswell it seems to have a diamond shape in the middle which is where the S would be on the symbol for the film so maybe the diamond is intentional.

Or

The same applied that it appears Batman calling Superman out but it's actually Lex who has employed someone to do it.

 

[Tobias]

My guess is these scenes are part of Knighmare. Not a cloned Superman.

I don't expect Bizaro in the film at then end. The threat has to be greater.

Doomsday will be held in reserve as part of the DCEU. Maybe do a take on DOS if they ever do an MOS2. i

 

[TX85]

If most of the DCEU films won't be origin stories, How would you all feel if the origins are glimpsed in the end credits if the rumored watchmen style is true? Like if they show Victor's accident and then becoming Cyborg while his solo film only refences his past.

Origins in opening credits like The Incredible Hulk could be an option too.

 

[matt47]

If most of the DCEU films won't be origin stories, How would you all feel if the origins are glimpsed in the end credits if the rumored watchmen style is true? Like if they show Victor's accident and then becoming Cyborg while his solo film only refences his past.

Origins in opening credits like The Incredible Hulk could be an option too.

I'm cool with that.

 

[Herolee10]

I feel like characters such as Aquaman and Wonder Woman definitely deserve to have entire films devoted into telling their origin stories properly like how "Batman Begins" did for Batman.

Given the Flash has a very successful show going on right now, I'd say that he's one character that you don't need to devote an entire film to tell his origin story.

As for Cyborg, his origin story could very well be told in "Justice League" where Victor's transformation into Cyborg takes place in that film.

 

[TX85]

Green Lantern doesn't need an original story now too

 

[matt47]

Green Lantern doesn't need an original story now too

I think it would be cool if Hal is the new kid and Stewart needs to show him the ropes. Basically a buddy cop movie, something similar to Training Day but you know....not as ****ed up lol

 

[souperman]

I think it would be cool if Hal is the new kid and Stewart needs to show him the ropes. Basically a buddy cop movie, something similar to Training Day but you know....not as ****ed up lol

Denzel Washington - Ethan Hawke

Stewart: ...Atta boy kid...that's what I call Lantern Ring lesson 101.

Jordan: ...Yeah buddy...

..dark as ...sh**, ..how that thing go again Jonny ?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I think it would be cool if Hal is the new kid and Stewart needs to show him the ropes. Basically a buddy cop movie, something similar to Training Day but you know....not as ****ed up lol

Eh... Sinestro is the Denzel role and Hal is Ethan Hawke. Makes more sense in context to me.

 

[Superchan]

Wasn't this the same idea that wizard magazine had for their ultimate DC line?

 

[matt47]

Eh... Sinestro is the Denzel role and Hal is Ethan Hawke. Makes more sense in context to me.

It does to me too. But they already....kinda...did that. Or you could have Stewart as the rookie and Hal already had his past with sinestro?

 

[Last Of Krypton]

Eh... Sinestro is the Denzel role and Hal is Ethan Hawke. Makes more sense in context to me.

Exactly.
It's like having Wally before Barry.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Wasn't this the same idea that wizard magazine had for their ultimate DC line?

You know, I kinda think that the first time I remember TRAINING DAY being brought up as a template for GL was in that old WIZARD piece about their Ultimate DC ideas. Ironic that they had Morgan Freeman as Gordon before he was cast in the Nolan films.

 

[Tobias]

Given all the rumors out there, this is my guess.

BvS ends with a soft cliffhanger - hinting at maybe Darkside to come.

BvS ends with some kind of JL montage.

Bizarro is not the end-villain. Mis-direct.

Darkside or Brainiac channeling Darkside is the "mysterious 4th act.

The fourth act is overblown. Not as big as sites speculate. It was there all along and filmed during the production window. The players were not called back after 12/14 to do a whole new act.

.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

The acts in a story or whatever don't end in even numbers. There's also prologues and epilogues for the beginning and end. I know, I'ma nerrrrrd. Just sayin'.