BvS The BvS Ultimate Cut Thread - Part 3

[Paradox1]

Based on the numbers website, the totals taken are only from the first few months of home video release.

First 12weeks of blue ray sales BvS 48 TDW 33. That doesn't include digital downloads which I suspect would put it far ahead.

 

[Erzengel]

Also included DVD sales, BvS 17 TDW 30.

 

[Paradox1]

Also included DVD sales, BvS 17 TDW 30.

DVD sales are down across the board because most people have converted to blue ray or they are digitally downloading it.

 

[Erzengel]

I'm not disagreeing and I'm sure the digital download is higher, but I can't find numbers for Thor: Dark World so I can't say one way or another.

BUT in terms of blu-ray/dvd sales they appear to be equal.

 

[Luke234]

Glad this thread's still alive. lol This movie really does get better each watch. I don't care what anyone says, I wholeheartedly believe that time will be kinder to this movie, I think a lot of fans are still polarized and in the angry phase of their disappointment with the theatrical movie and its reception. I can see the UC being looked at in the coming years much kinder. It's not going to convert people who dislike the movie on a fundamental level but I can see this being reevaluated as an underrated gem.

Love this movie. It's a drama 1st. Great story.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

So you're talking about years from now?

Even then, how will one gauge that BvS is now beloved among the GA?

In regards to the BvS sales. Based on the numbers website, the home video sales is approximately $65M for BvS. Thor: DW is $63M. Does that mean that Thor: DW has a good reputation?

Not necessarily years from now no, I think over the years it will become more appreciated though, starting from when the BD/DVD came out.

I would say TDW is better liked by the GA than fanboys yes. They don't over analyse these movies like we do. And I think TDW is the worst MCU movie BTW.

As for another matter, the-numbers home sales stats are for all time I believe? It's nit just based on the first few weeks of release.

 

[Erzengel]

They have dates next to them and they only go a few months from their home viewing release date.

I just think there's no real way to even say that the GA has done a 180 on BvS. I don't like doing the whole, "Well people I talk to in everyday life." When I use to work in a video store, I would probably be a better judge than I am now just by going people around me.

But here's why i don't think it'll happen. The main reason is look at all the great CBM that years later, we start poking holes in. Superman, Superman 2, Spider-Man 1 & 2, and X-Men 1 and 2, we're hearing the words "dated" next to them. TDK, TDKR, Avengers, we hear the words "overrated". That doesn't necessarily mean they are. BUT, I don't see it the other way around. No one really is saying, hey Wolverine Origins isn't that bad.

So that's why I find it hard to think there's going to be a BvS renaissance.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

They have dates next to them and they only go a few months from their home viewing release date.

I just think there's no real way to even say that the GA has done a 180 on BvS. I don't like doing the whole, "Well people I talk to in everyday life." When I use to work in a video store, I would probably be a better judge than I am now just by going people around me.

But here's why i don't think it'll happen. The main reason is look at all the great CBM that years later, we start poking holes in. Superman, Superman 2, Spider-Man 1 & 2, and X-Men 1 and 2, we're hearing the words "dated" next to them. TDK, TDKR, Avengers, we hear the words "overrated". That doesn't necessarily mean they are. BUT, I don't see it the other way around. No one really is saying, hey Wolverine Origins isn't that bad.

So that's why I find it hard to think there's going to be a BvS renaissance.

Honestly never noticed the dates. If you check them again in a few weeks though the numbers still go up . They have done for me in the past anyway.

You are probably right about there being no sure fire way to know with BvS, but we may see the odd sign. The 'people I know' card wouldn't matter here as I don't know anyone outside these boards who disliked the movie. And that's the truth I am not just saying it.

For me, BvS isn't Wolverine Origins. BvS is much better crafted and has much more layers that can be explored upon repeat viewings. I actually didn't mind Origins when I first saw it, but when I re-watched it, I disliked it more and more. There was nothing further to explore upon re-watch, it was just a plain, and in places poorly made, action movie. I liked BvS when I first saw it, but upon re-watch I like it more and more instead, as I notice new things about the story or certain scenes, emotional moments have a stronger impact, and things I initially disliked I come to appreciate over time. Very different movies for me.

 

[Paradox1]

I believe this movie will gain more of a audience because it has something to say. As more people discover that message, the overall perception will change. The history of cinema is full of films that gain more prestige over time.

 

[The Joker]

Sure, but I doubt BvS will be one of them. It may have something to say, but it's horribly executed. People generally don't care what a movie is trying to say if it does a horrible job doing it.

 

[Erzengel]

I believe this movie will gain more of a audience because it has something to say. As more people discover that message, the overall perception will change. The history of cinema is full of films that gain more prestige over time.

How will this audience gain be determined though?

What matter of measuring can be done?

 

[Paradox1]

How will this audience gain be determined though?

What matter of measuring can be done?

Cult following can only be gauged by reputation Like Blade Runner, original Fright Night, Lost Boys are cult classics.

 

[Erzengel]

Well, BvS is different from those 3 as it actually did make money.

However, if you're talking about gauged by reputation, wouldn't that be online as well?

I see Blade Runner, Fright Night and Lost Boys and I'm like yeah good movies and have to remember that they didn't do well. My point is on the internet, there's usually a pulse on how a movie is and you see that for the most part which cult movies are in good standing.

So are you saying that fanboys too will come around on BvS?

 

[Paradox1]

Well, BvS is different from those 3 as it actually did make money.

However, if you're talking about gauged by reputation, wouldn't that be online as well?

I see Blade Runner, Fright Night and Lost Boys and I'm like yeah good movies and have to remember that they didn't do well. My point is on the internet, there's usually a pulse on how a movie is and you see that for the most part which cult movies are in good standing.

So are you saying that fanboys too will come around on BvS?

I am saying online some film fans, comic book fans and the more casual will see it with new eyes. There are a lot of articles online with people already stating it's cult status. The more people rail about something there is always going to be an opposing force that is inevitable with anything.

 

[kguillou]

I think the GA liked BvS just fine, the problem is they didn't LOVE it, like an Avengers, or TDK, or Deadpool or Star Wars. I think if you asked joe average on the street what he or she thought of the movie, their answer would be "eh, yeah, it was pretty good, Wonder Woman was great" but that person wouldnt be jumping to go see it again. In fact, that very same person would probably also be likely to say "I liked Suicide Squad better."

 

[Erzengel]

I am saying online some film fans, comic book fans and the more casual will see it with new eyes. There are a lot of articles online with people already stating it's cult status. The more people rail about something there is always going to be an opposing force that is inevitable with anything.

Unprecedented is the word I would use if that happened. As it never happens. The cult films that you previously mentioned weren't panned as far as I can tell but they didn't light the box office on fire back in the day.

And in my opinion we have too many CBMs out that a panned CBM to somehow rise from the ashes would just be so surprising. Even a Batman and Superman one.

I think the GA liked BvS just fine, the problem is they didn't LOVE it, like an Avengers, or TDK, or Deadpool or Star Wars. I think if you asked joe average on the street what he or she thought of the movie, their answer would be "eh, yeah, it was pretty good, Wonder Woman was great" but that person wouldnt be jumping to go see it again. In fact, that very same person would probably also be likely to say "I liked Suicide Squad better."

I don't like using Cinemascore but BvS got some of the lowest score. B. Which is low for them.

Again, I can ask 5 people and can get 5 totally different answers that 5 people you ask and we live in the same state.

I just don't see a surge in people changing their minds when we have half a dozen CBMs released each year. The box office is saturated with CBMs, so you almost need to be a TDK, Avengers or a Fantastic Four (2015) to stick out. Obviously, the latter is in a negative way. Blade Runner or Shawshank, it's not like they were releasing 6 futuristic sci fi movies each year in the 80s or uplifting prison movies in the 90s.

 

[Paradox1]

Unprecedented is the word I would use if that happened. As it never happens. The cult films that you previously mentioned weren't panned as far as I can tell but they didn't light the box office on fire back in the day

So you want an example of a blockbuster film that is also a classic like say Predator? Number one in its first week of release and was panned by critics. Now a days it's considered one of Arnold's stronger films and a cult classic. Or let's say Psycho a blockbuster for its time that critics hated.

 

[Erzengel]

The highest grossing movie in 1987 was Three Men and a Baby at $167.7M. The Predator in the same year, $59.7M. Hardly a blockbuster even in terms of the 80s. Metacritic calls the reviews as unfavorable, but out of the 11 reviews. It's 3 positive, 4 neutral and 4 negative. Seems more mixed score. I mean even Ebert gave it a positive.

For Psycho, based on the wikipedia entry:

Initial reviews of the film were thoroughly mixed

That's not quite hated.

Even if I were to agree that Predator could be something they strive for, the thing about cult movies are they are somewhat unique in their story/genre. BvS gets lost even it's own year of release.

 

[Paradox1]

The highest grossing movie in 1987 was Three Men and a Baby at $167.7M. The Predator in the same year, $59.7M. Hardly a blockbuster even in terms of the 80s. Metacritic calls the reviews as unfavorable, but out of the 11 reviews. It's 3 positive, 4 neutral and 4 negative. Seems more mixed score. I mean even Ebert gave it a positive.

For Psycho, based on the wikipedia entry:



That's not quite hated.

Even if I were to agree that Predator could be something they strive for, the thing about cult movies are they are somewhat unique in their story/genre. BvS gets lost even it's own year of release.

I feel like we are going round and round in this argument. I bring some facts you bring some facts. Basically this is one of my favorite movies of 2016 and I've seen a ton. I hope in a couple years that people look back and think this was a damn fine movie. But Predator was the number 12 movie of 1987 while the number 12 2016 is Moana which has made 210 mil. I would say it's a blockbuster film.

 

[Erzengel]

I disagree that Predator is a blockbuster. It didn't even reach $100M domestically.

However, I can respect your desire for people to see this more favorably in the future. In the end, if you like the movie, that's all that should matter.

 

[kguillou]

Unprecedented is the word I would use if that happened. As it never happens. The cult films that you previously mentioned weren't panned as far as I can tell but they didn't light the box office on fire back in the day.

And in my opinion we have too many CBMs out that a panned CBM to somehow rise from the ashes would just be so surprising. Even a Batman and Superman one.


I don't like using Cinemascore but BvS got some of the lowest score. B. Which is low for them.

Again, I can ask 5 people and can get 5 totally different answers that 5 people you ask and we live in the same state.

I just don't see a surge in people changing their minds when we have half a dozen CBMs released each year. The box office is saturated with CBMs, so you almost need to be a TDK, Avengers or a Fantastic Four (2015) to stick out. Obviously, the latter is in a negative way. Blade Runner or Shawshank, it's not like they were releasing 6 futuristic sci fi movies each year in the 80s or uplifting prison movies in the 90s.

Fair enough. I never check cinemascore but I just checked it to see how the Batman movies have done and Batman Returns also has a B?? I couldve sworn it was a pot more beloved than that but then again I grew up with that movie and am probably biased. Lol

 

[Erzengel]

Fair enough. I never check cinemascore but I just checked it to see how the Batman movies have done and Batman Returns also has a B?? I couldve sworn it was a pot more beloved than that but then again I grew up with that movie and am probably biased. Lol

When I use Rotten Tomatoes for instance in comparison of CBM, I usually don't go past the last 10 years.

For example, the user rating under RT for Spider-Man 2 is 3.5. The Amazing Spider-Man is 3.9. Or X-2 has 3.7, so does Apocalypse.

So some of the older movies kind of suffer under RT and Cinemascore.

Also, Catwoman got a B too on Cinemascore.

 

[Luke234]

I disagree that Predator is a blockbuster. It didn't even reach $100M domestically.

However, I can respect your desire for people to see this more favorably in the future. In the end, if you like the movie, that's all that should matter.

How the heck was Predator not a huge hit? Arnold's best imho.

 

[Luke234]

When I use Rotten Tomatoes for instance in comparison of CBM, I usually don't go past the last 10 years.

For example, the user rating under RT for Spider-Man 2 is 3.5. The Amazing Spider-Man is 3.9. Or X-2 has 3.7, so does Apocalypse.

So some of the older movies kind of suffer under RT and Cinemascore.

Also, Catwoman got a B too on Cinemascore.

Catwoman a " B"? Ok. Can we throw out the validity of this now?
Unless they judged it as a comedy.

 

[Luke234]

I don't know or care much for box office stuff. I usually skip over messages that have a lot of figures in them but I can't pass up a chance to comment on the spectacular Catwoman. I only wish James Lipton could have the entire cast on stage and ask Halle all about the greatest sports scene in cinematic history. One on one in the schoolyard with Benjamin Bratt.