Civil War The Captain America: Civil War News & Speculation Thread TAG SPOILERS! - Part 25

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I forgot to add this to my review but

When Cap disarmed Iron Man and walked away with Bucky, and Tony got pissed and wanted him to leave the shield, he dropped the shield right then and there like a badass. It is after all a Stark property. Cap wasn't greedy. God, I love Cap.
 
I forgot to add this to my review but

When Cap disarmed Iron Man and walked away with Bucky, and Tony got pissed and wanted him to leave the shield, he dropped the shield right then and there like a badass. It is after all a Stark property. Cap wasn't greedy. God, I love Cap.

Even when he's badass... he's still a good guy.
 
Yup.
Remember the German squad going after Bucky? Cap was doing his best to save any from a certain death, resulting from Bucky's actions.
 
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I could see them potentially doing flashbacks back to him taking on the BP mantle to get some context to what's going on in the present.

I could definitely see them doing flashback/montage-y type stuff to cover the general Panther mythos, that way we could catch glimpses of BP's from eras past.
 
Yup.
Remember the German squad going after Bucky? Cap was doing his best to save any from a certain death, resulting from Bucky's actions.

But after cap grabbed the guy bucky threw over the rail, cap followed it up by tying two guys together and throwing them over the rail. The line could have easily snapped and killed 2 people.
 
But after cap grabbed the guy bucky threw over the rail, cap followed it up by tying two guys together and throwing them over the rail. The line could have easily snapped and killed 2 people.

Hmm. Don't know. I was under the impression that the guy inside the rail will do all he can to keep the other guy on the other side of the rail from dying.

Anyway, Tony kinda comes off as a dick in the end (Sorry, IM fans). It is childish to ask Cap to leave the shield behind in the manner he did.
 
Anyway, Tony kinda comes off as a dick in the end (Sorry, IM fans). It is childish to ask Cap to leave the shield behind in the manner he did.

Dude....

Tony spent half the movie trying to keep Cap out of Jail or keep Ross from sending a special ops squad to bring him in (or potentially kill him). Then near the end Tony finds out that his parents were murdered, that Cap knew, and didn't tell him. Tony had every right to be as pissed off and disgusted as he was with Cap.

Tony was putting his neck on the line for a guy that couldn't even be honest with him about his parents death.

In the letter Cap even admits he was wrong for keeping that information from Tony and he apologizes.
 
Dude....

Tony spent half the movie trying to keep Cap out of Jail or keep Ross from sending a special ops squad to bring him in (or potentially kill him). Then near the end Tony finds out that his parents were murdered, that Cap knew, and didn't tell him. Tony had every right to be as pissed off and disgusted as he was with Cap.

Tony was putting his neck on the line for a guy that couldn't even be honest with him about his parents death.

In the letter Cap even admits he was wrong for keeping that information from Tony and he apologizes.

Yeah, I appreciate all that. But I am talking about the manner in which he asked Cap to leave the shield behind. I loved his moment when he was watching the footage and turns to Cap and asks him the question. That was great. I felt his pain, I felt his rage when he rampaged after Bucky. It was just some moments, the manner he says things, comes off like an ass.
 
Alrighty, Civil War review.

Before I review the film itself, I wanna do brief review of the comic. I absolutely dreaded Civil War. If you thought I was tough on BvS, you've seen nothing. My dislike of Civil War is only surpassed by my dislike of One More Day (a sequel to Civil War, go figure).

First, let's remember the SHA was meant to be a metaphor for the Patriot Act. Whether or not you agree with Patriot Act, it doesn't change the fact that it fails as a metaphor. The Patriot Act, much like the the Mutant Registration Act, is all about targeting people based on what they are as opposed to what they do. If you were born with a mutant gene, you have to register based on that. If you're an American resident, especially if you're a Middle Eastern one, we have to surveillance you. That's the idea behind those acts. The SHA on the other hand, only requires you to registrate if you're someone who wants to fight crime. The way it was explained in the Civil War comic itself - I'm going by that since no one at Marvel could make up their minds on what the act was - it's similar to being a private detective. You don't have to join a police department to be a detective, but you still need to be licensed and held accountable under the same laws. So on what ****ing planet does Cap live on to think he can go around in a mask fighting "bad guys" (people he basically decides are bad guys) with no accountability whatsoever? That's vigilantism. We have laws against vigilantism for good reasons.

Now it's true superheroes act as vigilantes all the time - it's a staple of the genre after all - but there's really only two ways to make that work. You can either ignore it via suspension of disbelief, or you can do a character like Batman who's conflicted on where the line is. The second you bring in the real-life politics and have someone like Cap plant their feet in the ground and claim they have a right to act as vigilantes, the whole thing falls apart. As such Civil War isn't just an idiotic premise from the start; it's also one of Cap's biggest ***hole moments in all comic book history.

Now here's where the Team Cap players come in and cry foul. "Oh, but Tony became quasi-Hitler!" "SHIELD locked up people for nothing!" "Look at how EVIL the pro-registration people are!!!!!!" Sure, but they only did all that once they realized just how stupid Cap's argument was. It was so dumb they had to completely demonize the pro-reg side just to make it work. It's not a testimony to how "evil" the pro-reg side was, it's a testimony of the anti-reg side's complete imbecility (or rather the writers' imbecility).

And that's just the political aspect. Never mind the fact the people asked for superheroes be held accountable, unlike the Patriot Act where the government passed it in a matter of weeks without the public being let in or knowing much about it. Never mind the fact the incident that triggered the whole thing makes no sense when stuff like that happens all the time in the Marvel universe. Never mind the years of damage it brought to many Marvel characters like Iron Man and Spider-Man, some of which still haven't fully recovered. Finally, never mind the fact every character in the book is horrendously out of character, to the point you have to know absolutely nothing about them just to enjoy the damn book (honorary mention: The Punisher having no problem with the anti-reg heroes recruiting supervillains). I could talk all day on how much of a dog turd Civil War was, but I'll end it here.

Anyways, onto the film.

Surprisingly, I have no problem with Cap's position in the film. I still think it's as flawed as it was in the comic, but I didn't mind it for a couple of reasons. First, though still stubborn, Cap's stance came off more foolish and naive to me as opposed to ***holish. I think it's due to the fact Steve doubts himself throughout the film, and doesn't make up his mind on the Accords until he hears Peggy's words. Second, it helps that the film never took a side on who the good guy is and allowed...invited the audience to think for themselves on that. It also helps there was no Fascist Tony this time. Third, the whole plot doesn't revolve around registration. While I think Cap was foolish in regards to the Sokovia Accords, I thought Tony was foolish in regards to Bucky. So in the end they kinda balanced each other out for me.

As far as themes go, the film is all about a) the relationship between vengeance and redemption and b) the ways in which vengeance gets the worst in everyone. Each character has either a vengeance or redemption motive that's informed by the latter. The incident at the beginning is triggered by someone with a vengeance motive, causing Scarlet Witch to kill many civilians in the process. Tony starts out seeking redemption, only for the events in the story to drive him to a point where he desires vengeance. In the process he loses a lot of his friends, especially Cap. Zemo is the same way, allowing vengeance to consume him to the point he breaks apart the Avengers and resorts to wanting to commit suicide. Black Panther is the reverse of all this, starting out driven by vengeance but having a character arc by the end after seeing how vengeance consumed those around him. Bucky starts out starts out being a puppet to someone with a motive of vengeance, but by the end seeks redemption in the only way he could (by freezing himself). Then there's Spider-Man, whose feelings of helping out the little guy are clearly motivated by his guilt over Uncle Ben's death. I feel I could go on, but those are probably the best examples.

I don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said. The juggling aspect is as solid as everyone claims it is, but I feel Rhodey should've have more screentime. Rhodey doesn't really have an action scene or a one-on-one with another character until after he gets injured. I feel he should've had that to make his incident have more impaction. I honestly would've cut out Spider-Man completely and given those minutes to Rhodey. Spidey was enjoyable but he doesn't need to be in the film, he grinds the film's pacing to a halt. It's also out of character for Tony to put a kid in danger, especially after the thing with the kid who got killed in Sokovia. As for Spider-Man himself, I have some potential issues with the direction they're taking the character in. I'll reserve judgment till Homecoming, but as he stands in this film he doesn't feel as independent of a character as I feel he should be. Tom Holland is fantastic though, and other than the issues I had Spidey was perfect in every other way.

Zemo is arguably the MCU's second best film villain so far, the first obviously being Loki. He's kinda simple, but I feel that's what worked about him. He's not out to cause massive destruction or take over the world, he's just a regular guy on a revenge quest. In a lot of ways he's the perfect kind of villain if you want someone to tear the team down, because he's the type of person you'd least expect to pull it off, which adds to the tragedy of it in the process. Similarly to Luthor though, but nowhere near the same stupendous degree, there's some things that don't add up in his plan. How did he know Bucky wouldn't get killed by the SWAT members that went after him? Or where'd they take him? Or that they would specifically get the psychologist he murdered to diagnose him? I wish we spent a little more time with him. Again, despite how enjoyable Spider-Man is, I would have probably used more of that screentime on Zemo as well.

Like most Marvel films, it continues the trend of (for the most part) showing each of our heroes at their best with each increasing film. This can't be anymore especially true for Tony though. I felt this was the most humanized Tony we've gotten since IM1. He still has all the negative aspects that comes with being Tony, but we haven't seen that soft side of him since the first film, at least not in any large dose. Going in I was skeptical going on Bucky killing Tony's parents and how that would play out, but I completely bought it by the end. The interesting thing is how they managed to make me care for Tony's grief despite the fact he was clearly acting irrationally. Vision is another I felt became very humanized in this film, which is one of the things that was missing in Age of Ultron. And then there's Black Panther, whom I loved everything about. The performance was uncanny, the accent is perfect, looks incredible and is overall just so charismatic and likeable. He's one of those characters where it's hard to describe just how enjoyable they were.

Overall I give the film a solid 5/5. It has a few issues, but it's nothing that majorly hurts its overall quality. As of now, I would rank this as the best Marvel film overall, MCU or otherwise. I feel it's the film which embodies Marvel Studios the most. If you'd want to show a stranger why you're a fan of Marvel Studios, this is the film to show them and go "see, this is why they're so praised" (granted you need to watch some of the previous films for this one to make sense, but I'm sure everyone understood what I meant).
 
When do u think the bluray will be released? August?

Iron Man 3 was released on bluray at the end of September and Avengers: Age of Ultron was released in early October so I'd guess somewhere around there. I'm using those two movies because those were Marvel's last 2 May releases.
 
I forgot to add this to my review but

When Cap disarmed Iron Man and walked away with Bucky, and Tony got pissed and wanted him to leave the shield, he dropped the shield right then and there like a badass. It is after all a Stark property. Cap wasn't greedy. God, I love Cap.
What's funny is that my coworker (who's admittedly a high schooler in a 30-something's body) read that as Cap being as petty a-hole. Then I stopped talking to him about CW. :o



Tony tries to do the responsible thing, but the movie has shown that he's easily swayed by immediate emotion. Cap keeps his emotions in check, and continues to stand by his values. That's the actual responsible thing to do. (So does Bucky, actually. Bucky is the one character who deserves to just get away and eat his plums in peace but he gets back into the fray when he suspects the villain has a world-ending evil plot afoot.) The only time where Cap's emotions get the best of him is when he fails to tell Tony the truth about his parents, which he should have done, but doesn't directly put anyone in physical danger.

Here's what Tony does that rationally makes no sense and is emotionally immature:
  • Being confronted by a 20-something's mother to feel guilt over Ultron, and then recruiting a high schooler to fight other superheroes. Talk about doing a 180 there. He conveniently forgets his earlier pain, and even tricks Peter into taking his side even though ideologically, Peter's on Cap's.
  • Calling one of his own teammates, whose powers he helped create thanks to his weapon-building, a "weapon of mass destruction."
  • Refusing to listen to Cap at the airport. I forgot the exact exchange, but the guy had tunnel vision, only seeing what he wanted and not seeing the greater good like Natasha did.
  • Telling Vision to blast Sam out of the sky. I mean, dude, the guy has barely any armor, he would be as good as dead if he didn't dodge that.
  • Blasting Sam when Sam tries to help with Rhodey. (Not Sam's fault he didn't want to die!) THAT was totally petty, no bones about it. My audience wasn't sure whether to laugh at it or not.
  • Attacking Bucky at the end. Yes, he just found out the guy killed his parents, but if you see Bucky's face and his actions, he's terrified at that moment because he remembers it, and can do nothing to help the situation. His expression is completely different than how it was in the security feed. T'Challa showed MUCH more mature restraint when handling Zemo.
  • Tony would have gotten what he wanted (killing Bucky) if he didn't let Cap distract him at the end of the battle. Bucky was lying there, helpless with pain and having lost his primary weapon/shield. Cap was down and not in great immediate shape, Bucky even grabs Tony's leg and Tony could have stomped him, but no, he kicks Bucky in the face like a child. Turns his back on Cap, who takes the opportunity to take him down in turn. And I think if he HAD managed to kill Bucky, I don't think it would have helped him feel better in the long run, just like realizing what he did with Wanda was wrong when he saw it escalated into the Raft.
Tony still has a looooong way to go before he's up to Cap and T'Challa's (and even Natasha and Bucky's) level of responsible.
 
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Here's what Tony does that rationally makes no sense and is emotionally immature:
  • Being confronted by a 20-something's mother to feel guilt over Ultron, and then recruiting a high schooler to fight other superheroes. Talk about doing a 180 there. He conveniently forgets his earlier pain, and even tricks Peter into taking his side even though ideologically, Peter's on Cap's.
  • Calling one of his own teammates, whose powers he helped create thanks to his weapon-building, a "weapon of mass destruction."
  • Refusing to listen to Cap at the airport. I forgot the exact exchange, but the guy had tunnel vision, only seeing what he wanted and not seeing the greater good like Natasha did.
  • Telling Vision to blast Sam out of the sky. I mean, dude, the guy has barely any armor, he would be as good as dead if he didn't dodge that.
  • Blasting Sam when Sam tries to help with Rhodey. (Not Sam's fault he didn't want to die!) THAT was totally petty, no bones about it. My audience wasn't sure whether to laugh at it or not.
  • Attacking Bucky at the end. Yes, he just found out the guy killed his parents, but if you see Bucky's face and his actions, he's terrified at that moment because he remembers it, and can do nothing to help the situation. His expression is completely different than how it was in the security feed. T'Challa showed MUCH more mature restraint when handling Zemo.
  • Tony would have gotten what he wanted (killing Bucky) if he didn't let Cap distract him at the end of the battle. Bucky was lying there, helpless with pain and having lost his primary weapon/shield. Cap was down and not in great immediate shape, Bucky even grabs Tony's leg and Tony could have stomped him, but no, he kicks Bucky in the face like a child. Turns his back on Cap, who takes the opportunity to take him down in turn. And I think if he HAD managed to kill Bucky, I don't think it would have helped him feel better in the long run, just like realizing what he did with Wanda was wrong when he saw it escalated into the Raft.
Tony still has a looooong way to go before he's up to Cap and T'Challa's (and even Natasha and Bucky's) level of responsible.
On your 4th bullet point, it was actually....

Rhodey that told Vision to turn Falcon into a glider, not Tony
 
Bucky is the one character who deserves to just get away and eat his plums in peace

:funny:

The only time where Cap's emotions get the best of him is when he fails to tell Tony the truth about his parents, which he should have done, but doesn't directly put anyone in physical danger.

And when
Crossbones mentioned Bucky in Lagos. Cap got completely distracted which leads to him not reacting quick enough to Crossbones going all Worms Armageddon.

[quoteHere's what Tony does that rationally makes no sense and is emotionally immature:
  • Being confronted by a 20-something's mother to feel guilt over Ultron, and then recruiting a high schooler to fight other superheroes. Talk about doing a 180 there. He conveniently forgets his earlier pain, and even tricks Peter into taking his side even though ideologically, Peter's on Cap's.
  • Calling one of his own teammates, whose powers he helped create thanks to his weapon-building, a "weapon of mass destruction."
  • Refusing to listen to Cap at the airport. I forgot the exact exchange, but the guy had tunnel vision, only seeing what he wanted and not seeing the greater good like Natasha did.
  • Telling Vision to blast Sam out of the sky. I mean, dude, the guy has barely any armor, he would be as good as dead if he didn't dodge that.
  • Blasting Sam when Sam tries to help with Rhodey. (Not Sam's fault he didn't want to die!) THAT was totally petty, no bones about it. My audience wasn't sure whether to laugh at it or not.
  • Attacking Bucky at the end. Yes, he just found out the guy killed his parents, but if you see Bucky's face and his actions, he's terrified at that moment because he remembers it, and can do nothing to help the situation. His expression is completely different than how it was in the security feed. T'Challa showed MUCH more mature restraint when handling Zemo.
  • Tony would have gotten what he wanted (killing Bucky) if he didn't let Cap distract him at the end of the battle. Bucky was lying there, helpless with pain. Cap was down and not in great immediate shape, Bucky even grabs Tony's leg and Tony could have stomped him, but no, he kicks Bucky in the face like a child. Turns his back on Cap, who takes the opportunity to take him down in turn. And I think if he HAD managed to kill Bucky, I don't think it would have helped him feel better in the long run, just like realizing what he did with Wanda was wrong when he saw it escalated into the Raft.
Tony still has a looooong way to go before he's up to Cap and T'Challa's (and even Natasha and Bucky's) level of responsible.[/QUOTE]

I don't agree that
attacking Bucky at the end is emotionally immature. The difference between him and T'Challa is T'Challa had just had the realisation that his quest for vengance would have had him kill the wrong man. Tony just witnesses the guy standing 5 feet away from him choke the life out of his mother. Saying "well, he was brainwashed" isn't going to overcome that shock and rage no matter how true it is.
 
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Blasting Sam when Sam tries to help with Rhodey. (Not Sam's fault he didn't want to die!) THAT was totally petty, no bones about it. My audience wasn't sure whether to laugh at it or not.

This was definitely a moment that confused me too
The way the shot was framed, it came off very slapstick
but judging by the actors, it didn't seem like it was supposed to be funny in that moment

in my theater, one woman laughed and then awkwardly stopped, nobody knew how to react

they probably should've shot that differently
 
And when Crossbones
mentioned Bucky in Lagos. Cap got completely distracted which leads to him not reacting quick enough to Crossbones going all Worms Armageddon.
True! Can't believe I forgot that one. :funny: But that seems to be more understandable, and not necessarily "immature."


I don't agree that
attacking Bucky at the end is emotionally immature. The difference between him and T'Challa is T'Challa had just had the realisation that his quest for vengance would have had him kill the wrong man. Tony just witnesses the guy standing 5 feet away from him choke the life out of his mother. Saying "well, he was brainwashed" isn't going to overcome that shock and rage no matter how true it is.
I disagree. That's not what heroes do. It's relatable, but we still typically expect more from our heroes.

Bucky didn't gloat about how he enjoyed doing it, he was devastated and terrified.

And T'Challa actually faces the man who DID kill his father, and sits down and listens to his story before clawing his throat out. That's what makes him more mature and responsible than Tony.

This was definitely a moment that confused me too
The way the shot was framed, it came off very slapstick
but judging by the actors, it didn't seem like it was supposed to be funny in that moment

in my theater, one woman laughed and then awkwardly stopped, nobody knew how to react

they probably should've shot that differently
I think they shot it exactly how they wanted to. Awkwardly humorous, but true to the character's petty immaturity that runs throughout the film.
 
well if that's true, then that's just a piss-poor moment for humor.... much worse than even the Thor cellphone gag after Loki 'died'
 
well if that's true, then that's just a piss-poor moment for humor.... much worse than even the Thor cellphone gag after Loki 'died'

Whether you laugh at it might depend if you're TeamCap or TeamIM. :oldrazz:
 
no, idk, with that Rhodey moment, nobody even wanted to laugh
everybody I was with agreed it was really weird, whether they were team cap or team IM

you have 15 minutes of awesome, funny, joyful superhero action
so then when something bad happens, you gotta let that moment stew a bit, give it the beat it needs
 
Rhodey that told Vision to turn Falcon into a glider, not Tony

One would think that
Rodey would know that those wings are way too small to function properly as a glider.
But then again, physics work differently in comic movieland.
 
One would think that
Rodey would know that those wings are way too small to function properly as a glider.
But then again, physics work differently in comic movieland.
That and War Machine (and any of the Iron Man suits) really should have had
backup parachutes. Sam had them in TWS so when he was missing a wing, he didn't splatter all over the sidewalk. And he actually HAS something that could conceivably be used as a glider in case of (VERY) minor damage. Any of the Iron Man suits are solid bricks if the repulsors are disabled.

Maybe they removed the parachute to make room for that weird stun gun. :oldrazz: But there's no indication in the MCU that Tony ever even planned backup parachutes for himself either, otherwise they would have deployed automatically (as they do for skydivers) in the end of Avengers.
 
True! Can't believe I forgot that one. :funny: But that seems to be more understandable, and not necessarily "immature."



I disagree. That's not what heroes do. It's relatable, but we still typically expect more from our heroes.

Bucky didn't gloat about how he enjoyed doing it, he was devastated and terrified.

And T'Challa actually faces the man who DID kill his father, and sits down and listens to his story before clawing his throat out. That's what makes him more mature and responsible than Tony.


I think they shot it exactly how they wanted to. Awkwardly humorous, but true to the character's petty immaturity that runs throughout the film.

But T'Challa
1. has the benifit of distance from the event. He's ran around, done some backflips, gotten a good workout in, blown off some steam and had a moment of realisation right before facing the true killer.

2. It wasn't for lack of trying that BP didn't kill Bucky, if it wasn't for the intervention of others (Cap, Wanda, Widow) he would have gutted Bucky like a fish.

For Stark it's right there in the moment, he sees his mother choked to death on screen by the guy standing a few feet away and he goes all Red Ross (which I was initially intending as a Friends reference but I suddenly realise it also works as a Thunderbolt/Red Hulk reference :awesome:.)
 
That and War Machine (and any of the Iron Man suits) really should have had
backup parachutes. Sam had them in TWS so when he was missing a wing, he didn't splatter all over the sidewalk. And he actually HAS something that could conceivably be used as a glider in case of (VERY) minor damage. Any of the Iron Man suits are solid bricks if the repulsors are disabled.

Maybe they removed the parachute to make room for that weird stun gun. :oldrazz: But there's no indication in the MCU that Tony ever even planned backup parachutes for himself either, otherwise they would have deployed automatically (as they do for skydivers) in the end of Avengers.

Pffff,
parachutes are for wimps.:o
 
really good discussion on Netflix's new Chelsea Handler show with the cast of the movie.
they are all eating dinner and kicking back talking and telling stories.
 
:funny:



And when
Crossbones mentioned Bucky in Lagos. Cap got completely distracted which leads to him not reacting quick enough to Crossbones going all Worms Armageddon.

[quoteHere's what Tony does that rationally makes no sense and is emotionally immature:
  • Being confronted by a 20-something's mother to feel guilt over Ultron, and then recruiting a high schooler to fight other superheroes. Talk about doing a 180 there. He conveniently forgets his earlier pain, and even tricks Peter into taking his side even though ideologically, Peter's on Cap's.
  • Calling one of his own teammates, whose powers he helped create thanks to his weapon-building, a "weapon of mass destruction."
  • Refusing to listen to Cap at the airport. I forgot the exact exchange, but the guy had tunnel vision, only seeing what he wanted and not seeing the greater good like Natasha did.
  • Telling Vision to blast Sam out of the sky. I mean, dude, the guy has barely any armor, he would be as good as dead if he didn't dodge that.
  • Blasting Sam when Sam tries to help with Rhodey. (Not Sam's fault he didn't want to die!) THAT was totally petty, no bones about it. My audience wasn't sure whether to laugh at it or not.
  • Attacking Bucky at the end. Yes, he just found out the guy killed his parents, but if you see Bucky's face and his actions, he's terrified at that moment because he remembers it, and can do nothing to help the situation. His expression is completely different than how it was in the security feed. T'Challa showed MUCH more mature restraint when handling Zemo.
  • Tony would have gotten what he wanted (killing Bucky) if he didn't let Cap distract him at the end of the battle. Bucky was lying there, helpless with pain. Cap was down and not in great immediate shape, Bucky even grabs Tony's leg and Tony could have stomped him, but no, he kicks Bucky in the face like a child. Turns his back on Cap, who takes the opportunity to take him down in turn. And I think if he HAD managed to kill Bucky, I don't think it would have helped him feel better in the long run, just like realizing what he did with Wanda was wrong when he saw it escalated into the Raft.
Tony still has a looooong way to go before he's up to Cap and T'Challa's (and even Natasha and Bucky's) level of responsible.

I don't agree that
attacking Bucky at the end is emotionally immature. The difference between him and T'Challa is T'Challa had just had the realisation that his quest for vengance would have had him kill the wrong man. Tony just witnesses the guy standing 5 feet away from him choke the life out of his mother. Saying "well, he was brainwashed" isn't going to overcome that shock and rage no matter how true it is.
[/QUOTE]

It wasn't Tony who told Vision to stop Sam it was Rhodey himself.
 
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