Civil War The Civil War "ANYTHING GOES" Thread - ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK - NO SPOILER TAGS REQ.! - Part 2

[Wylie Times]

Yeah I liked the film but didnt love it. I started out on caps side especially at peggys funeral but by the end I was on starks side. The airport fight is easily the best action part of the film and starks revelation on his parents death is the best acted part.

There were obviously weak or bad parts where I was scratching my head like the woman in the beginning showing stark her dead sons photo just came out of nowhere and provided a weak excuse for tony to side with government control. Also tony needed something more meaty to give into government control given his past films showed him not trusting or listening to the government.

Tony doesn't necessarily trust to government in this film. He just realizes that the Avengers need some type of oversight and would rather being involved with shaping things than fight against the government for making a reasonable demand.

If you notice spends most of the film not working or the government but doing his damnedest to protect Steve and the others.

 

[Jaxon]

Wait....what? Jaxon's been getting bashed for a week pointing out how flat this movie is, and what now, more people think the same? I'm shocked to be standing here.

 

[MadVillainy]

Edit

 

[Supernova]

Tony doesn't necessarily trust to government in this film. He just realizes that the Avengers need some type of oversight and would rather being involved with shaping things than fight against the government for making a reasonable demand.

If you notice spends most of the film not working or the government but doing his damnedest to protect Steve and the others.

That is true but I didnt buy his motivation and it felt wierd hearing him call someone sir or yes sir. Small nitpick though on a good film.

 

[Supernova]

The movie is still good and miles better then last years avengers ultron but its far from perfect or the best comic film to date. I think its fair to say its marvels most personal film where they force these characters to talk and deal with some deep conflicts.

 

[Seven Legion]

Wait....what? Jaxon's been getting bashed for a week pointing out how flat this movie is, and what now, more people think the same? I'm shocked to be standing here.

The rest have legitimate concerns and issues with the film. They answer the clarion call of reason.

You, on the other hand, have shown you are neither of those. Time and again, you parrot the same few "problems" with the film, and we laboriously refute them to no avail.

Calm your ****, man

 

[javonstokess]

I've very confused at how anyone could have disliked this movie.

Frankly, it was the "deepest" Marvel movie has made continuity-wise.

Confusion on why Stark would side with the government? Since Iron Man 1, Stark has made huge decisions when faced with guilt. His entire perspective changed in the first movie when he realized his weapons were being sold to the enemy. In IM2, he made many irrational decisions because he thought he was going to die. In IM3, his PSTD had him doing all kinds of dumb, irrational things, including destroying as his armor and lying to Pepper. Tony Stark is essentially responsible for everything that the Avengers were being tagged with. Invasion of New York, Sokovia, Helicarrier destruction of DC...all had Stark's fingerprints on them. His ending speech in IM1 essentially explains why he's concerned with accountability. He's constantly trying to alleviate his guilt, but fails spectacularly, every time.

Confusion why Scott Lang sides with Cap? Well, he's clearly a fan or Cap and, thanks to Hank Pym, doesn't have much love for the Starks.

I mean I could answer every question, but the movie, or the previous 12-13 before it, answers them pretty well.

 

[ParkerPeter]

Not everything has to be on camera of course but filling in gaps like where characters were when we last saw them are kind of crucial. Just alot of things happened off camera in this movie for me to ignore especially the big one where cap knew Bucky killed starks parents. When and how did that come up?

Yeah that was really strange. The writers came up with the flimsiest of reasons for them to fight. If they're not fighting over something significant, I don't care about the fight.

The writers had things they could have used to fuel the fighting, but in the end it was kind of "OMG you grounded Wanda" and "OMG you knew Bucky killed my parents" etc.

It didn't feel like they used Zemo effectively, he should have been the big thing, we want to go after Zemo, you don't. They flirted with that a bit but not enough IIRC.

 

[Supernova]

I've very confused at how anyone could have disliked this movie.

Frankly, it was the "deepest" Marvel movie has made continuity-wise.

Confusion on why Stark would side with the government? Since Iron Man 1, Stark has made huge decisions when faced with guilt. His entire perspective changed in the first movie when he realized his weapons were being sold to the enemy. In IM2, he made many irrational decisions because he thought he was going to die. In IM3, his PSTD had him doing all kinds of dumb, irrational things, including destroying as his armor and lying to Pepper. Tony Stark is essentially responsible for everything that the Avengers were being tagged with. Invasion of New York, Sokovia, Helicarrier destruction of DC...all had Stark's fingerprints on them. His ending speech in IM1 essentially explains why he's concerned with accountability. He's constantly trying to alleviate his guilt, but fails spectacularly, every time.

Confusion why Scott Lang sides with Cap? Well, he's clearly a fan or Cap and, thanks to Hank Pym, doesn't have much love for the Starks.

I mean I could answer every question, but the movie, or the previous 12-13 before it, answers them pretty well.

How did cap find out bucky killed starks parents? What was zemos plan? How did it effect the story overall? Why would some random kid killed off screen that we never met effect tony to join the government? Should have been someone close to him dying.

 

[javonstokess]

True but a characters motivations and character building should be on camera. If they didnt put that in there at all no one would have even noticed. Or in last years ultron put in a quick nod or notion that stark and pepper are at odds with him continuing his avengers gig. Same with ultron last year too where to he just shows up in a ironman suit after ironman 3 blowing all his suits up and giving up the life to be with pepper.

Not everything has to be on camera of course but filling in gaps like where characters were when we last saw them are kind of crucial. Just alot of things happened off camera in this movie for me to ignore especially the big one where cap knew Bucky killed starks parents. When and how did that come up?

Why do people keep asking how Cap knew about Stark's parents? Didn't you guys watch TWS?

There's also nothing wrong with big events happening off-screen, especially when movies are essentially (especially Marvel movies) snap shots of certain events. That's the whole point of creating this giant cinematic universe, these characters are meant to be shown as real characters and life goes on when the movie has finished telling it's story. At least they addressed it and I liked how they handled it. It was a rare point in the film and Steve and Tony were friends again. It was one man telling his good friend about the bad things happening in his life. It was extremely human.

 

[Supernova]

Yeah that was really strange. The writers came up with the flimsiest of reasons for them to fight. If they're not fighting over something significant, I don't care about the fight.

The writers had things they could have used to fuel the fighting, but in the end it was kind of "OMG you grounded Wanda" and "OMG you knew Bucky killed my parents" etc.

It didn't feel like they used Zemo effectively, he should have been the big thing, we want to go after Zemo, you don't. They flirted with that a bit but not enough IIRC.

Yeah especially given at that point in the film stark/cap/bucky were all on the same page in getting zemo and then some random video on a light pole on a deserted road changes that.

 

[Overman27pj]

The "random video" happened to show THE MURDER OD HIS PARENTS by someone in the same room.

 

[javonstokess]

How did cap find out bucky killed starks parents? What was zemos plan? How did it effect the story overall? Why would some random kid killed off screen that we never met effect tony to join the government? Should have been someone close to him dying.

Arnim Zola told Cap and BW in TWS that Bucky killed Howard Stark.

Zemo's plan was to tear the Avengers apart. He turned Stark against Bucky, which inevitably would turn Cap against Tony, which would split the team down the middle. The Accords just helped push the split even further.

The point isn't that just ONE kid was killed, it was Stark being confronted by the human face of the people affected by the Avengers activities and, frankly, his actions because, if you haven't forgotten, Stark was responsible for creating Ultron. Helping the government oversee the Avengers was just another way to alleviate his guilt. Did you even read my post?

 

[Fondue]

This movie felt really disjointed and overall flat to me, a complete opposite from the perfectly balanced TWS and emotionally compelling TA and AOU. It is deep, but mostly because of the previous installations. It's like no one knows how to interact naturally anymore, the characters are... kinda here, but not really into it.
There are some amazing moments, but I was bored most of the time and didn't care about anyone, which is frankly shocking, because I love these characters dearly.

 

[Supernova]

Why do people keep asking how Cap knew about Stark's parents? Didn't you guys watch TWS?

There's also nothing wrong with big events happening off-screen, especially when movies are essentially (especially Marvel movies) snap shots of certain events. That's the whole point of creating this giant cinematic universe, these characters are meant to be shown as real characters and life goes on when the movie has finished telling it's story. At least they addressed it and I liked how they handled it. It was a rare point in the film and Steve and Tony were friends again. It was one man telling his good friend about the bad things happening in his life. It was extremely human.

I did and theres no scenes showing cap find out about that kind of a big deal revelation. True there isnt anything wrong with events happening off sceen but the pepper one was setup as big love story however over 4 films.

No offense but all movies are snap shots of certain events regardless of genre but you still need to show meaningful moments in front of the camera.

 

[ctsketch]

Yeah that was really strange. The writers came up with the flimsiest of reasons for them to fight. If they're not fighting over something significant, I don't care about the fight.

The writers had things they could have used to fuel the fighting, but in the end it was kind of "OMG you grounded Wanda" and "OMG you knew Bucky killed my parents" etc.

It didn't feel like they used Zemo effectively, he should have been the big thing, we want to go after Zemo, you don't. They flirted with that a bit but not enough IIRC.

Zola told cap that Stark's parents were a hydra target in TWS. This is not a plot hole...it's a lack of attention for viewers. In Civil war when asked if he knew cap said he didn't know it was Bucky but admitted he knew it happened

 

[ctsketch]

I did and theres no scenes showing cap find out about that kind of a big deal revelation. True there isnt anything wrong with events happening off sceen but the pepper one was setup as big love story however over 4 films.

No offense but all movies are snap shots of certain events regardless of genre but you still need to show meaningful moments in front of the camera.

Wrong again, watch the bunker scene with Zola

 

[matt47]

But guys. Tony n pepper aren't broken up. THEY ARE ON A BRAKE.

 

[Fondue]

The "random video" happened to show THE MURDER OD HIS PARENTS by someone in the same room.

How was it even recorded? Did someone follow WS with a camera? If it's a random surveillance camera in the middle of nowhere, how could Tony even see what was happening in the car from that grainy tape?
There are so many annoying small things in this movie. Nobody bothers with how's and why's, completely opposite from what I expected from the Russos.

 

[javonstokess]

I did and theres no scenes showing cap find out about that kind of a big deal revelation. True there isnt anything wrong with events happening off sceen but the pepper one was setup as big love story however over 4 films.

No offense but all movies are snap shots of certain events regardless of genre but you still need to show meaningful moments in front of the camera.

The Captain America movies are a trilogy. Cap knowing about Stark's parents was a reference back to TWS.

The movie showed every meaningful moment need. I mean, did we really need to see the actual break up of Stark and Potts? Enough was said and shown to infer how much it affected Tony.

This was a Captain America movie, featuring Tony Stark, not the other way around.

 

[javonstokess]

How was it even recorded? Did someone follow WS with a camera? If it's a random surveillance camera in the middle of nowhere, how could Tony even see what was happening in the car from that grainy tape?
There are so many little annoying small things in this movie. Nobody bothers with how's and why's, completely opposite from what I expected from the Russos.

He knew the road and I'm positive he'd remember his parents care.

Plus, the guy in the video clearly had a big metal arm.

C'mon, if you're going to complain about something, at least let it make sense.

 

[Supernova]

Arnim Zola told Cap and BW in TWS that Bucky killed Howard Stark.

Zemo's plan was to tear the Avengers apart. He turned Stark against Bucky, which inevitably would turn Cap against Tony, which would split the team down the middle. The Accords just helped push the split even further.

The point isn't that just ONE kid was killed, it was Stark being confronted by the human face of the people affected by the Avengers activities and, frankly, his actions because, if you haven't forgotten, Stark was responsible for creating Ultron. Helping the government oversee the Avengers was just another way to alleviate his guilt. Did you even read my post?

Wait a sec in tws zola showed his footage of who hydra killed not that bucky literally killed them himself.

So zemo did the exact samething as ultron only worse? Not too mentio for his plan to work alot of things had to go right.

I agree on your last part but tony is aware of others dying by his actions in the past though, why now with one random stranger?

 

[MadVillainy]

The Captain America movies are a trilogy. Cap knowing about Stark's parents was a reference back to TWS.

The movie showed every meaningful moment need. I mean, did we really need to see the actual break up of Stark and Potts? Enough was said and shown to infer how much it affected Tony.

This was a Captain America movie, featuring Tony Stark, not the other way around.

For how important their relationship is and how Pepper is literally the first leading lady of the MCU yeah they shouldve shown it. Even in a silent flashback while Tony is explaining to Cap what happened.

But as I said, Im pretty sure they couldn't so I dont think we should hold it against the film. There are some things that go beyond a movie's control that I dont think we should fault it for

 

[Supernova]

Wrong again, watch the bunker scene with Zola

I just did and it shows who hydras targets were not that bucky killed them himself.

 

[Supernova]

If cap trully knew his boy killed his new friends parents and didnt say something and continued to protect his boy in bucky then cap deserves a beat down worse then bucky.