The Clinton Thread II

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The GOP is being overrun by Tea Partiers and catering to those 'looney toons'. Unfortunately, the GOP party nominee in 2012 will likely be an extremist right winger. (After all, alot of people in the GOP seem to think they lost because McCain wasn't 'conservative enough'.)

The only extreme right winger that may run for the GOP nomination is Gary Johnson, unless Ron Paul decides to ignore his age. Palin isn't an extremist right winger, neither is Huckabee or Romney or Barbor or Newt. Huckabee is an extreme Christian, but since he advocates rewriting the Constitution to fit that faith he certainly can't be described "right wing" by the conventional definition of it.
 
Exactly. Loyalty is everything in DC. It was true for the Bush Administration and its no less so for the Obama Administration. Now, if President Obama were to announce that he would not run in '12, than Hillary would have no problem announcing her candidacy. But how often does a sitting President decline a second term?

Timing is everything, loyalty is very little. Reagan went against Ford in '76. Teddy Kennedy went against Carter in '80. If Hillary wants to be President, she will run in 2012. If she doesn't, I expect her to focus on a Supreme Court position in Obama's second term.
 
Timing is everything, loyalty is very little. Reagan went against Ford in '76. Teddy Kennedy went against Carter in '80. If Hillary wants to be President, she will run in 2012. If she doesn't, I expect her to focus on a Supreme Court position in Obama's second term.

Agreed...
 
Timing is everything, loyalty is very little. Reagan went against Ford in '76. Teddy Kennedy went against Carter in '80. If Hillary wants to be President, she will run in 2012. If she doesn't, I expect her to focus on a Supreme Court position in Obama's second term.

I still don't think it would be a good thing for her to oppose Obama again in 2012. If she doesn't become president, I would like to see her become a Supreme Court Justice. :up:
 
Bill said on Letterman that Hilary wants to be a grandmother moreso that President.
 
I don't see hiliary doing it. I think Obama will be the nom. again and despite what people say he will win again. There is really no republican out there who is strong enough to win. I can see him possible naming Hiliary as his VP to gain more votes.

The Republican doesn't have to be good. Obama's reputation just has to remain piss poor. And so far, he's doing a great job of ensuring that.

As for Hilary, nah she won't run. The most brilliant move Obama made was in naming Hilary Secretary of State as she is now a party to every bad move he's made. An insurgency campaign against the administration can't come from inside the administration as they are part of it.

My guess is, Biden will either "retire," in late 2011 and Obama will appoint Hilary or Hilary will simply take Biden's place as running mate in the 2012 election. That will set her up for 2016 while neutralizing her as a threat to Obama even further.

I suppose if there are big losses in November, Hilary can resign, distance herself, and start targeting Barry O., but come on, by that time there will be a little over one year until the Iowa Caucus. Hardly enough time to run an insurgency campaign.

If there is one, I don't think it will come from a far leftist, but instead a more moderate Democrat who will argue that they stand a better chance of winning and fixing the party. It will either come from Mark Warner or Brian Schweitzer, IMO. IF there is an insurgency campaign (which I doubt will happen).
 
Bill said on Letterman that Hilary wants to be a grandmother moreso that President.

And Obama said in 2005 or 2006 that he would not seek the presidency in 2008. What politicians say and do are two very different things.
 
I don't think it will happen. It would look like a desperate ploy (which it would be) and ask McCain how desperate ploys worked out for him in 2008.

Besides, it won't even be seriously considered until 2012 and they are viewing the president's vulnerability then. It is far too early to worry right now.
 
We will know in a year when everyone starts campaigning.
 
It all depends on November. If the Democrats see big losses, Barry may have no choice but to over the spot to Hill-dog in exchange for not resigning and running an insurgency campaign.
 
I'm sorry, it was left wide open I had to take it...
 
The Republican doesn't have to be good. Obama's reputation just has to remain piss poor. And so far, he's doing a great job of ensuring that.
I think that the Republican has to at least be competent to be able to beat Obama. No Sarah Palin or whatnot. It's why Mitch Daniels would be best to run in 2012. I think that he'll be one of the few Republicans capable of defeating Obama.

You also have to take a look at the Electoral College changes for 2012. The states that consistently vote Democratic (New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Illinois, etc.) are going to lose votes while Republican stronghold Texas will get up to 4 more votes and the only other Republican stronghold that will lose any Electoral votes will be Louisiana (due to Hurricane Katrina).

And on a personal note, I don't think that Obama will repeat his victories in Indiana (especially if Mitch Daniels runs), Virginia, North Carolina, and NE-02. And I think that he'll have a hard time in Florida, Ohio, Nevada (highest unemployment rate in the country), Iowa, and Colorado.

As for Hilary, nah she won't run. The most brilliant move Obama made was in naming Hilary Secretary of State as she is now a party to every bad move he's made. An insurgency campaign against the administration can't come from inside the administration as they are part of it.

My guess is, Biden will either "retire," in late 2011 and Obama will appoint Hilary or Hilary will simply take Biden's place as running mate in the 2012 election. That will set her up for 2016 while neutralizing her as a threat to Obama even further.

I suppose if there are big losses in November, Hilary can resign, distance herself, and start targeting Barry O., but come on, by that time there will be a little over one year until the Iowa Caucus. Hardly enough time to run an insurgency campaign.

If there is one, I don't think it will come from a far leftist, but instead a more moderate Democrat who will argue that they stand a better chance of winning and fixing the party. It will either come from Mark Warner or Brian Schweitzer, IMO. IF there is an insurgency campaign (which I doubt will happen).

I think that Hillary is done. No one is going to seriously challenge Obama in 2012.
 
I think some are a bit overeager about the 2012 election.

If the economy is still over 9.0% unemployment by early-mid 2012 (or worse, it goes up), then I think any competent Republican will win.

But that is an if that we don't know. History shows the incumbent will win if people are happy with the economy and/or state of our wars (as it seems we're in perpetual war at this point).

I suspect the economy will be better in 2012. God willing, as we desperately need it. And then all of a sudden Obama's distracted base will be back when he rallies a backlash among the college-age/post-grad youth vote as well as minorities who are likely repulsed by the bigotry that is running rampant in parts of the right while all the GOP Presidential contenders either embrace it or pretend it doesn't exist.

As Arnie said this wee, if the economy isn't dire in 2012, the president will be in a strong place to pull a 1984/1996.

As much as people claim to hate the president now "name recognition" and the advantage of incumbency is always a huge benefit for any politician seeking re-election. If people are economically content (even if unemployment is still higher than average) the incumbent will likely win. Especially if he can regather his base--which I suspect he will.

But this is all conjecture because we don't know what the 2012 conditions look like as of yet. And that too will decide if Hillary is on the ticket. Which I personally doubt.

My opinion, of course
 
I don't know....


Presidential Elections are just crazy things....

A "competent Democrat" would not have beaten H.W. Bush....it had to be someone like Clinton.

I don't believe the Republicans have anyone like that....

And hell.....even Bush won in 2004..... I couldn't stand and still can't stand Kerry....but good lord.
 
H.W. lost because of the economy. He had over 80% approval rating of his handling of the Gulf War and going into late-91 he was still in the high 60s. It was the economic discontent that allowed "Slick Willie" to get people's anxiety to put him in the WH. Otherwise, I doubt Clinton would have won.

As you said, look at 2004. While the Democrats were frothing at the mouth to get rid of George W. Bush who to them in '04 was "just like Hitler" and "worst president ever," etc. etc.

But while they were excited about Kerry, most of the country was rather ambivalent about him. The fact that Bush and Rove's campaign (as well as some sleazy 527 ads) was able to define Kerry as a lethargic, two-faced elitist who had no real ideas. If it is Romney, expect a similar response from this WH to the new Massachusetts pol who has flip flopped enough times to open a iHop (they just won't have to paint a war hero as a coward as the 527s did).

Bush wasn't exactly a national pride in 2004, but he was able to keep middle America unenthused about John Kerry and won reelection in a traditional result. I think Mitch Daniels is the toughest competitor for Obama right now. Romney, Palin, Gingrich or Barbour are not nearly a threatening (though the latter two could prove quite difficult if they campaigned well).

But again, if the economy is bad in 2012, Obama is in deep trouble, unless the Tea Party runs Sarah Palin through the primary like they did Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell this year. Carter and especially H.W. can prove that.
 
I think some are a bit overeager about the 2012 election.

If the economy is still over 9.0% unemployment by early-mid 2012 (or worse, it goes up), then I think any competent Republican will win.

But that is an if that we don't know. History shows the incumbent will win if people are happy with the economy and/or state of our wars (as it seems we're in perpetual war at this point).

I suspect the economy will be better in 2012. God willing, as we desperately need it. And then all of a sudden Obama's distracted base will be back when he rallies a backlash among the college-age/post-grad youth vote as well as minorities who are likely repulsed by the bigotry that is running rampant in parts of the right while all the GOP Presidential contenders either embrace it or pretend it doesn't exist.

As Arnie said this wee, if the economy isn't dire in 2012, the president will be in a strong place to pull a 1984/1996.

As much as people claim to hate the president now "name recognition" and the advantage of incumbency is always a huge benefit for any politician seeking re-election. If people are economically content (even if unemployment is still higher than average) the incumbent will likely win. Especially if he can regather his base--which I suspect he will.

But this is all conjecture because we don't know what the 2012 conditions look like as of yet. And that too will decide if Hillary is on the ticket. Which I personally doubt.

My opinion, of course

I completely agree, while the electoral numbers will improve for the Republicans and I don't see Obama repeating his victories in Indiana, Virginia, North Carolina, and NE-02, if the economy improves he'll definetely win states like Florida, Ohio, Nevada, Colorado, etc. which will easily make up for electoral gains for Republicans and losing states like Virginia which have flat out rejected the Obama agenda.
 
H.W. lost because of the economy. He had over 80% approval rating of his handling of the Gulf War and going into late-91 he was still in the high 60s. It was the economic discontent that allowed "Slick Willie" to get people's anxiety to put him in the WH. Otherwise, I doubt Clinton would have won.

As you said, look at 2004. While the Democrats were frothing at the mouth to get rid of George W. Bush who to them in '04 was "just like Hitler" and "worst president ever," etc. etc.

But while they were excited about Kerry, most of the country was rather ambivalent about him. The fact that Bush and Rove's campaign (as well as some sleazy 527 ads) was able to define Kerry as a lethargic, two-faced elitist who had no real ideas. If it is Romney, expect a similar response from this WH to the new Massachusetts pol who has flip flopped enough times to open a iHop (they just won't have to paint a war hero as a coward as the 527s did).

Bush wasn't exactly a national pride in 2004, but he was able to keep middle America unenthused about John Kerry and won reelection in a traditional result. I think Mitch Daniels is the toughest competitor for Obama right now. Romney, Palin, Gingrich or Barbour are not nearly a threatening (though the latter two could prove quite difficult if they campaigned well).

But again, if the economy is bad in 2012, Obama is in deep trouble, unless the Tea Party runs Sarah Palin through the primary like they did Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell this year. Carter and especially H.W. can prove that.

Kel has a point though. Look throughout history. It takes an exciting candidate to beat an incumbent unless the incumbent is REALLY bad (like Gerry Ford). What candidate do the Republicans have who matches that?

Barbour will have the same drawbacks of Bill Richardson. He's better suited as a VP or cabinet member.

Gingrich is old and has a lot of skeletons.

Daniles is, for lack of better wording, boring. No matter how much the more rational minded Republicans embrace him, he just doesn't have it in him to energize the base, attract new voters, and do all that good stuff that is needed to win a nation wide campaign.

Pawlenty could have a shot if people started to learn who the hell he is.

Romney implemented Obama-care in Massachusettes.

Palin is a nitwit who is a joke amongst everyone but her die hard supporters.

Ron Paul only appeals to a small base.

Huckabee is honestly the best choice the Republicans have and sadly his policies are scary as hell. But he is a very good public speaker who can build an instant connection with his audience. He's got a down to Earth nature that will appeal to those turned off by Obama's "elitist," persona. None-the-less, I'm not sure that will be enough to beat the incumbent. Especially with his policies being alarmingly right wing.

I just don't see anyone in the Republican pool who can beat Obama unless there is some little known Congressman that the Republican Party has been sitting on and grooming for something bigger (as is the case with Tim Ryan for the Democrats).
 
Kel has a point though. Look throughout history. It takes an exciting candidate to beat an incumbent unless the incumbent is REALLY bad (like Gerry Ford). What candidate do the Republicans have who matches that?

Barbour will have the same drawbacks of Bill Richardson. He's better suited as a VP or cabinet member.

Gingrich is old and has a lot of skeletons.

Daniles is, for lack of better wording, boring. No matter how much the more rational minded Republicans embrace him, he just doesn't have it in him to energize the base, attract new voters, and do all that good stuff that is needed to win a nation wide campaign.

Pawlenty could have a shot if people started to learn who the hell he is.

Romney implemented Obama-care in Massachusettes.

Palin is a nitwit who is a joke amongst everyone but her die hard supporters.

Ron Paul only appeals to a small base.

Huckabee is honestly the best choice the Republicans have and sadly his policies are scary as hell. But he is a very good public speaker who can build an instant connection with his audience. He's got a down to Earth nature that will appeal to those turned off by Obama's "elitist," persona. None-the-less, I'm not sure that will be enough to beat the incumbent. Especially with his policies being alarmingly right wing.

I just don't see anyone in the Republican pool who can beat Obama unless there is some little known Congressman that the Republican Party has been sitting on and grooming for something bigger (as is the case with Tim Ryan for the Democrats).

With your logic, the Republicans should go for Tea Party darling Marco Rubio.
 
Rubio? Nah. Republicans should go with Luis Fortuno. Its a gamble but could pay off.
 
Rubio? Nah. Republicans should go with Luis Fortuno. Its a gamble but could pay off.

I think that if you're going to run for President that you should be from an actual state :o

Rubio is far better suited, especially for your standards. He's a Latino minority, but since he's Cuban, conservatives won't have a problem with his ethnicity.

He's a rather good looking man. He's charasmatic who praises American exceptionalism.

He's a darling of the Tea Party movement.

Plus he'll be a two year Senator....just like Obama. Except he'll have more experience than Obama ever had due to him being Majority Leader in the Florida legislature :awesome:
 
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