The Clinton Thread II

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Kel has a point though. Look throughout history. It takes an exciting candidate to beat an incumbent unless the incumbent is REALLY bad (like Gerry Ford). What candidate do the Republicans have who matches that?

Mitch Daniels. But he is not near the front runners (Romney, Palin and dark horse Barbour).

Barbour will have the same drawbacks of Bill Richardson. He's better suited as a VP or cabinet member.

How so?

Gingrich is old and has a lot of skeletons.

I know. I'd love to see him run. Plus nothing will rally the youth vote and minority votes then him calling Obama "a post-colonial Kenyan" and suggesting that he might be a Muslim. Then add on his hypocrisy on issues like family values and boom, he's a no-go.

Daniles is, for lack of better wording, boring. No matter how much the more rational minded Republicans embrace him, he just doesn't have it in him to energize the base, attract new voters, and do all that good stuff that is needed to win a nation wide campaign.

I thought you just described Palwenty.

Romney implemented Obama-care in Massachusettes.

Yep.

Palin is a nitwit who is a joke amongst everyone but her die hard supporters.

No arguments here. The only guarantee for Obama to win is if they ran her. She'd be like the Sharron Angle/Christine O'Donnell national equivalent.


Will never be popular with more than a small, small percentage of Americans.

Huckabee is honestly the best choice the Republicans have and sadly his policies are scary as hell. But he is a very good public speaker who can build an instant connection with his audience. He's got a down to Earth nature that will appeal to those turned off by Obama's "elitist," persona. None-the-less, I'm not sure that will be enough to beat the incumbent. Especially with his policies being alarmingly right wing.

I just don't see anyone in the Republican pool who can beat Obama unless there is some little known Congressman that the Republican Party has been sitting on and grooming for something bigger (as is the case with Tim Ryan for the Democrats).


I don't know about Huckabee per se...I think his policies are generally scary and could hurt him in political ads and his charisma to me strikes me as that boring pastor that the congregation just nods along to. No the one who knows how to electrify his flock, in any case.

But in all honesty, if the economy is bad, he is in trouble. People were so pissed off about Nixon (whose Watergate scandal transcended personal disappointment for voters) that Jimmy Carter got elected president. And H.W. was hugely popular, but a bad economy did him in.

I think Obama has the incumbent advantage, but if people are unhappy, he is in serious trouble...unless they run Palin.

But this is years off, so we shall see.
 
A conservative leaning polling source finds a guy most Americans haven't heard of is as popular as Obama? Excusing that given the source and I imagine that the number is at least 5 points higher than it probably should be, most Americans are currently unhappy with Obama and will always go with "the other guy."

But if Ron Paul was actually the GOP candidate for president and his crackpot ideas about going back to the gold standard, dismantling social services, dismantling the military, and returning our economic system to the 19th century (right down to segregation)?

Please. He'd be eaten alive faster than Barry Goldwater was in 1964. Goldwater won only one 6 states--his home state and 5 deep South states who went Republican for the first time in 90 years due to the Civil Rights Act passing that year.

It is why Paul is just the punch line of the Republican candidates every four years. The Dennis Kusinich of the right. Even if ideological diehards and puritans like them, they will never appeal to the middle--the true capital for a presidential run.
 
Rasmussen may be conservative leaning but they are one of the most reliable pollsters in the country.
 
Gallup and Rasmussen are the 2 most reliable out there bar none.
 
A conservative leaning polling source finds a guy most Americans haven't heard of is as popular as Obama? Excusing that given the source and I imagine that the number is at least 5 points higher than it probably should be, most Americans are currently unhappy with Obama and will always go with "the other guy."

But if Ron Paul was actually the GOP candidate for president and his crackpot ideas about going back to the gold standard, dismantling social services, dismantling the military, and returning our economic system to the 19th century (right down to segregation)?

Please. He'd be eaten alive faster than Barry Goldwater was in 1964. Goldwater won only one 6 states--his home state and 5 deep South states who went Republican for the first time in 90 years due to the Civil Rights Act passing that year.

It is why Paul is just the punch line of the Republican candidates every four years. The Dennis Kusinich of the right. Even if ideological diehards and puritans like them, they will never appeal to the middle--the true capital for a presidential run.

It's to your own disadvantage that you dismiss Rasmussen as his reputation as a pollster stands on it's stellar record.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't believe Ron Paul will ever be President. Not because of his views, but because of his age.

His "crackpot ideas" such as a gold standard, dismantling of (unconstitutional) social services and returning to a free market system are going to become reality at some point in the next 20 years. Out of necessity.
 
Rasumussen is good. But I always notice the GOP is doing at least a few points better in every race than an average of all the other pollsters. Conversely, I notice Dems are always doing a few points better than the pollster average in gallup polls. Anyway, at the end of the day you should take polls with a grain of salt. Especially when they're for elections over two years away and they don't even distinguish between registered voters and likely voters.

In any case his ideas will never take root in this country. We may become more fiscally conservative in the next 20-30 years and even reform organizations...but

Ending Social Security?
Ending Medicare?
Ending Medicaid?
Dissolving the Military Industrial Complex?
Dismantling the Fed?
Returning to the Gold Standard?
Ending Minimum Wages?
Returning to the Gold Standard?
Abolishing the Department of Education?
Abolishing the Department of Energy?
Abolishing the Environmental Protection Agency?
Ending Labor Laws (like banning child workforces)?
Repealing the Civil Rights Act?
Repealing the Americans with Disabilities Act?
Ending the Income Tax?

....in the next 20 years?!?!?!

:funny: :lmao: :funny: :lmao:

...Sure. Okay. And I'm sure the water carriers for Barry Goldwater said after his political destruction in 1964 that they'd live to see Social Security dismantled in their lifetime and the Civil Rights Act repealed...they didn't. And neither will you.

The one Paul idea that has a shot if moneyed interests and campaign finance reform ever happened is...well campaign finance reform, but also opening the Fed to audit if Wall Street can't protect them. And I support both of those actions. But even those are highly doubtful.
 
Never said he would win....but compared to what is out there....

Well, he's looking good....and if they (both parties) don't stop throwing money into those black holes you just listed, rather than reforming them for sustainability, then hey....I'm all for adios....
 
Rasumussen is good. But I always notice the GOP is doing at least a few points better in every race than an average of all the other pollsters.

That's due to the fact Rasmussen uses Likely Voters over Registered Voters. Conservative voters are more dependable voters and thus such a factor would typically end up with a result more GOP friendly than other pollsters. This is not, however, an ideological bias - simply the result of superior polling.

Remember, most polls had Gore ahead of Bush before 2000 and Kerry and Bush closer than the outcome in 2004.

Anyway, at the end of the day you should take polls with a grain of salt. Especially when they're for elections over two years away and they don't even distinguish between registered voters and likely voters.

Agreed but if we can agree that Rasmussen's polling is of some decent degree of credibility, it serves to destroy your notion that Ron Paul could never gain support nationally.

In any case his ideas will never take root in this country. We may become more fiscally conservative in the next 20-30 years and even reform organizations...but

Ending Social Security?
Ending Medicare?
Ending Medicaid?
Dissolving the Military Industrial Complex?
Dismantling the Fed?
Returning to the Gold Standard?
Ending Minimum Wages?
Returning to the Gold Standard?
Abolishing the Department of Education?
Abolishing the Department of Energy?
Abolishing the Environmental Protection Agency?
Ending Labor Laws (like banning child workforces)?
Repealing the Civil Rights Act?
Repealing the Americans with Disabilities Act?
Ending the Income Tax?

....in the next 20 years?!?!?!

:funny: :lmao: :funny: :lmao:

...Sure. Okay. And I'm sure the water carriers for Barry Goldwater said after his political destruction in 1964 that they'd live to see Social Security dismantled in their lifetime and the Civil Rights Act repealed...they didn't. And neither will you.

The difference is the economy. The reason Goldwaterites never saw Social Security dismantled is because the economy was (relatively) good, 60's through today were relatively stable economically. (Remember that the worst economic times during that time was at the end of the 70's that brought about the election of Reagan whose rhetoric (though not policy) was vintage Goldwater.

Just as the Great Depression ended up creating a radical change to the American economy, the current economic crisis will do the same. With Bush's and Obama's insistent on proven failed Keynesian solutions, we have guaranteed to continue and worsen the economic crisis. Unemployment will continue to be high, the economy will continue to not get better and Americans will be looking for solutions.

And thats when Austrian's come in and save the day.

Optimism on my end is fueled by the fact that I am on the right side of reality. Free Market's aren't a religion I blindly follow, they are the obvious solution after studying history.

I personally will be involved in ending many of the programs you listed, including (and most importantly) the Income Tax.
 
Move to District FL-2 by 2014 ;)

I think I'm happy with NY-29. You can't get any better than having absolutely no Congressman thanks to David Patterson and Eric Massa's tickle fights, "Massa"ges, and something called snorkeling.
 
The upcoming gop takeover is to screw over their 2012 chances. The big O will see an increase in approval when his already liberal agenda stops being pushed over the edge by a crazy senate.

pray to god pelosi loses her speaker of the house position.
 
Well, IF, AND THIS IS A BIG IF......the Republicans do take over at least the House, (which I hope they do), and Pelosi is ousted, (which I hope happens)....

AND IF, AND THIS IS A BIG IF AS WELL..... the GOP in the House and Senate can do their job, rather than use their time, money, and energy to make Obama look bad, with investigation, after investigation, after investigation as they did trying to screw over Clinton.....

THEN, something might actually get done in the President's second term that will be a positive for this country.

*sighs*
Unfortunately, I'm very much a skeptic when it comes to our National Government actually doing its job.
 
My question is what can the House and the Senate do thats good for the country with Obama as President?

Would Obama agree to sign off on the reductions of government necessary? Or would the only thing a GOP legislative branch and a DNC executive agree on are further ways to expand government?
 
That depends, we have quite a bit of time BEFORE the 2012 Presidential election. If he wants to be re-elected he better work with Congress. If the GOP takes the House and a good number in the Senate, and Obama signs nothing that the Republicans send to him.....Independents will mutiny.

If its solid legislation, and he doesn't sign it? Screw him......

If its solid legislation, and he signs it, and we move forward....he might even get my vote once again.
 
Hopefully the GOP leadership has more intelligence than I give them credit for and can manufacture - and then sell to the people - quality legislation.

What pisses me off is that the GOP doesn't have any ideas that aren't water downed versions of libertarian policy and yet we have no libertarians in Congress. Even more damaging is the fact that I know no one (okay, overwhelming majority) in Congress has any respect for libertarians either.
 
That's due to the fact Rasmussen uses Likely Voters over Registered Voters. Conservative voters are more dependable voters and thus such a factor would typically end up with a result more GOP friendly than other pollsters. This is not, however, an ideological bias - simply the result of superior polling.

Remember, most polls had Gore ahead of Bush before 2000 and Kerry and Bush closer than the outcome in 2004.



Agreed but if we can agree that Rasmussen's polling is of some decent degree of credibility, it serves to destroy your notion that Ron Paul could never gain support nationally.



The difference is the economy. The reason Goldwaterites never saw Social Security dismantled is because the economy was (relatively) good, 60's through today were relatively stable economically. (Remember that the worst economic times during that time was at the end of the 70's that brought about the election of Reagan whose rhetoric (though not policy) was vintage Goldwater.

Just as the Great Depression ended up creating a radical change to the American economy, the current economic crisis will do the same. With Bush's and Obama's insistent on proven failed Keynesian solutions, we have guaranteed to continue and worsen the economic crisis. Unemployment will continue to be high, the economy will continue to not get better and Americans will be looking for solutions.

And thats when Austrian's come in and save the day.

Optimism on my end is fueled by the fact that I am on the right side of reality. Free Market's aren't a religion I blindly follow, they are the obvious solution after studying history.

I personally will be involved in ending many of the programs you listed, including (and most importantly) the Income Tax.

I do agree economic discontent (or catastrophe) can lead to strong reforms by the party coming into power. FDR came into the Great Depression and used it to better hundreds of millions of Americans lives for decades on and established the USA that would become the preeminent superpower with a booming middle class in the 20th century. Ronald Reagan used the "malaise period" to reform our economic system that led to big booms in the 1980s but returned us to a boom-big bust cycle that culminated in the entire economy nearly going under in 2008. He also cemented the Military-Industrial Complex as a permanent fixture of American life.

We're at another crossroads, but it is a bit naive to assume that Obama's attempt to push us back towards Roosevelt and away from Reagan is going to absolutely fail. He is unpopular in 2010, but so was Clinton in 1994 and Reagan in 1982. Things can change. If Obama is a two-termer most likely his "transformative America" with a better healthcare system and a government/public service sector that can be more than an onerous evil to be destroyed.

But this is all theoretical at this point.

In any case if you think economic discontent is going to lead to us returning to the gold standard or Americans agreeing to give up Social Security, Medicare, and the minimum wage you are delusional. We aren't going back to the 19th century. You may succeed at drastically reforming SS (which needs to happen), but dismantling it? Only if the backdoor destruction of privatization happens and after seeing what that would have looked like in 2008 if Bush succeeded at privatizing it in 2005--I find that also highly doubtful.

As for the Income Tax. Good luck. It is one of the few things that the Democrats get populist support on. Look at 70% of Americans who support raising taxes on the top 2 percent. And beyond that, a progressive tax system is the only way to make the programs Americans want--roads, infrastructure, social services and a strong military--viable. Going to the "FairTax" is nothing but "starving the monster," and in the process exploding the deficits and exploding our economy.

So good luck. But when you reach D.C. you'll be in for a surprise. Most of the Republicans I've ever met there are more interested in preserving the big business and the ruling class's wealth and expanding it while looking down on all other issues as pandering to the "masses." They never really seem to care about Constitutionality or the basic needs of the Middle Class. They downright resent the working class's "laziness" and complaining (well the ones who were from the Ivy League schools or Georgetown, George Washington, etc.). They care most about improving the ability of corporate America to make money.

Now the Tea Parties of 2010 could be the beginning of a sea change in the Republican Party. But I doubt that too.
 
Who cares about Ron Paul's ideas. He would cockblock everything that adds a dime to the deficit. And realistically that is ALL he could do anyways. I think that is all that matters for a number of people.
 
The upcoming gop takeover is to screw over their 2012 chances. The big O will see an increase in approval when his already liberal agenda stops being pushed over the edge by a crazy senate.
Doubt it. The Democrats took control of Congress in 2006 and the voting public still blamed George W. Bush and the Republicans for everything in 2008. If things continue to go the way they are in 2012, the voting public will blame Barack Obama and the Democrats, even if they don't deserve it.

pray to god pelosi loses her speaker of the house position.
Even if the Democrats retain control of Congress, I think that Pelosi is done for. She has lost her authoritarian control of the House to the point where she is struggling to adjourn the House.

I believe that we're going to get John Boehner as Speaker with the next Congress. If the Democrats end up with an incredibly slim majority, conservative Democrats like Bobby Bright will probably end up reaching a deal with Republicans that will oust Pelosi and put in a centrist/conservative Democrat like Bobby Bright in the position.
 
I do agree economic discontent (or catastrophe) can lead to strong reforms by the party coming into power. FDR came into the Great Depression and used it to better hundreds of millions of Americans lives for decades on and established the USA that would become the preeminent superpower with a booming middle class in the 20th century. Ronald Reagan used the "malaise period" to reform our economic system that led to big booms in the 1980s but returned us to a boom-big bust cycle that culminated in the entire economy nearly going under in 2008. He also cemented the Military-Industrial Complex as a permanent fixture of American life.

We're at another crossroads, but it is a bit naive to assume that Obama's attempt to push us back towards Roosevelt and away from Reagan is going to absolutely fail. He is unpopular in 2010, but so was Clinton in 1994 and Reagan in 1982. Things can change. If Obama is a two-termer most likely his "transformative America" with a better healthcare system and a government/public service sector that can be more than an onerous evil to be destroyed.

But this is all theoretical at this point.

In any case if you think economic discontent is going to lead to us returning to the gold standard or Americans agreeing to give up Social Security, Medicare, and the minimum wage you are delusional. We aren't going back to the 19th century. You may succeed at drastically reforming SS (which needs to happen), but dismantling it? Only if the backdoor destruction of privatization happens and after seeing what that would have looked like in 2008 if Bush succeeded at privatizing it in 2005--I find that also highly doubtful.

As for the Income Tax. Good luck. It is one of the few things that the Democrats get populist support on. Look at 70% of Americans who support raising taxes on the top 2 percent. And beyond that, a progressive tax system is the only way to make the programs Americans want--roads, infrastructure, social services and a strong military--viable. Going to the "FairTax" is nothing but "starving the monster," and in the process exploding the deficits and exploding our economy.

So good luck. But when you reach D.C. you'll be in for a surprise. Most of the Republicans I've ever met there are more interested in preserving the big business and the ruling class's wealth and expanding it while looking down on all other issues as pandering to the "masses." They never really seem to care about Constitutionality or the basic needs of the Middle Class. They downright resent the working class's "laziness" and complaining (well the ones who were from the Ivy League schools or Georgetown, George Washington, etc.). They care most about improving the ability of corporate America to make money.

Now the Tea Parties of 2010 could be the beginning of a sea change in the Republican Party. But I doubt that too.

I obviously disagree with your perception of history. But you already knew that.

[YT]d0nERTFo-Sk[/YT]

The notion that Reagan is on the other side of the economic spectrum from Roosevelt is laughable. Reagan was libertarian in his rhetoric but not in his actions.

Over time you will realize that you have vastly underestimated the anger Americans have for the Federal Government. The anger at the Tea Parties isn't aimed at a Black Man but a failed Federal Government. That anger is common amongst those that have never considered attending one of those events.

What people are begging for are solutions. To be given some idea of how we can get out of this whole that we have dug. When people can start going to worrk.

Your answer is government - not the concept of government but the same government that has failed to excite any side of the ideological spectrum. You think Americans are willing to trust our government to get us out of this mess? Dissatisfaction with government is the one thing uniting everyone.

Your notion that the Income Tax is a "populist position" is, frankly, bizarre. You are saying that people are fans of our current tax system? The IRS is the most hated institution in America. Support of the status tax quo, support of the income tax, will become labeled SUPPORT OF THE IRS and it will destroy any politician outside of Progressive areas.

And then you start mentioning the fact the FairTax allows workers to keep 100% of their paycheck? Working on a construction site, you see how much people hate having to deal with losing a third of your paycheck (no exaggeration, I lost 450 dollars off a 1500 paycheck). And you never have to deal with the IRS? You never have to keep receipts? You have no fear of being audited? They are intrigued.

You bring up the fact that business won't have to pay taxes and how that means jobs that were going overseas will come back to avoid taxes. That's job creation. You point out the fact that when the government is not taxing businesses, there is instantly less reasons for businesses to influence politicians.

You start with one piece of a small government platform. You simply the effects into relatable pieces and you win people over. When its as successful as it will be you move on to ending Social Security (with guarantees to the next 5 years worth of Social Security qualifiers). You educate while you legislate.
 
I obviously disagree with your perception of history. But you already knew that.

[YT]d0nERTFo-Sk[/YT]

The notion that Reagan is on the other side of the economic spectrum from Roosevelt is laughable. Reagan was libertarian in his rhetoric but not in his actions.

Over time you will realize that you have vastly underestimated the anger Americans have for the Federal Government. The anger at the Tea Parties isn't aimed at a Black Man but a failed Federal Government. That anger is common amongst those that have never considered attending one of those events.

What people are begging for are solutions. To be given some idea of how we can get out of this whole that we have dug. When people can start going to worrk.

Your answer is government - not the concept of government but the same government that has failed to excite any side of the ideological spectrum. You think Americans are willing to trust our government to get us out of this mess? Dissatisfaction with government is the one thing uniting everyone.

Your notion that the Income Tax is a "populist position" is, frankly, bizarre. You are saying that people are fans of our current tax system? The IRS is the most hated institution in America. Support of the status tax quo, support of the income tax, will become labeled SUPPORT OF THE IRS and it will destroy any politician outside of Progressive areas.

And then you start mentioning the fact the FairTax allows workers to keep 100% of their paycheck? Working on a construction site, you see how much people hate having to deal with losing a third of your paycheck (no exaggeration, I lost 450 dollars off a 1500 paycheck). And you never have to deal with the IRS? You never have to keep receipts? You have no fear of being audited? They are intrigued.

You bring up the fact that business won't have to pay taxes and how that means jobs that were going overseas will come back to avoid taxes. That's job creation. You point out the fact that when the government is not taxing businesses, there is instantly less reasons for businesses to influence politicians.

You start with one piece of a small government platform. You simply the effects into relatable pieces and you win people over. When its as successful as it will be you move on to ending Social Security (with guarantees to the next 5 years worth of Social Security qualifiers). You educate while you legislate.

My perception of history? You mean reality?

....I couldn't resist. :)

Reagan was for deregulating the markets and getting government out of the way. While he spent like a drunken sailor who gets one night off in a major city and blew up our deficit....he still practiced smaller government in the market which led to immediate growth. But to deny that these same policies (which were expanded upon under Clinton and Bush'43 to be fair) didn't contribute to things like the explosion of financial services making up a huge amount of our GDP and over 40% of profits paid in this country, as well as the creation of the highly speculative markets of oil, agriculture, mortgages, etc. which contributed heavily to the 2008 meltdown...well that is just naive.

But I digress.

The Tea Party is not the mark of a new style of governance in your lifetime. It is a populist outrage that has sprung up in times of economic fear, paranoia and discontent. They appear throughout history and whether they claim America is on a Cross of Gold, or that we are better off siding with Hitler than Roosevelt, or that Medicare will turn us into a Socialist Empire "like the Soviet Union," they always are the contrarian voice of history that live in the footnotes and in the minds of those who prefer living in ideology than reality.

You deny there is a racist element in parts of this movement at your own peril. In any case, the day Obama is no longer president, there will be no Tea Party. Whether they were the racist bigots that Liberal elites mock as "Tea Baggers" or the passionate patriotic "Freedom Fighters" you and the right build them up as...they will not last. History is cyclical and their role has an expiration date. You will not see them oppose a Republican President's spending habits and you will not see rallies on the first tax day of the next GOP POTUS. It will be up to historians to decide whether they were idealists, libertarians (is there a difference?), disenchanted Republicans, patriots, racists, or a huge pot of all the above.

The income tax is not leaving because most Americans will not part with their Social Security, Medicare, roads, etc. And if you don't think there is a populist anger at the Wall Street elite, then check out the latest poll numbers about what most Americans think of the Bush Tax Cuts. If you believe you can convince these people to sign off on a "FairTax" which is ultimately intended to make the rich richer by starving the government, you are delusional.

....

And again, you seem to think you're in the majority. The Tea Party at most is 10-15% of this country (I doubt that high) and I have met many Republicans from the D.C. area. The ones who run the party or are part of the beltway there don't give a crap about the Tea Party platform. They're biggest interest is in reducing government control over big business and corporate America. It is why the only actual proposed legislation in their 40-page "Pledge to America," besides repealing HCR, is making the Bush Tax Cuts permanent for the Top Income Bracket. I've heard them argue raising taxes on the Middle Class, but never the "job creators."

That is where their heart lies and your dreams of Gold Standards and ending the EPA are insignificant in their eyes. Crap to they say for votes. If you think the TEa Party is going to change the minds of most of these Republicans, I think again you fail to see who wags the tail in this relationship. Crackpot libertarianism has been a part of America for centuries.

It never wins.
 
Reagan was for deregulating the markets and getting government out of the way. While he spent like a drunken sailor who gets one night off in a major city and blew up our deficit....he still practiced smaller government in the market which led to immediate growth. But to deny that these same policies (which were expanded upon under Clinton and Bush'43 to be fair) didn't contribute to things like the explosion of financial services making up a huge amount of our GDP and over 40% of profits paid in this country, as well as the creation of the highly speculative markets of oil, agriculture, mortgages, etc. which contributed heavily to the 2008 meltdown...well that is just naive.

But I digress.

Reagan claimed to be for regulating the markets and instead did nothing of the source. For you to connect the actions of President Reagan with "Small Government Policies" of individuals like myself is for you to argue that a man should be judged by what he says, not how he acts.

Neither Reagan nor Bush 41 nor Bubba nor Bush 43 were "small government" Presidents. None were practitioners of the Austrian perspective. None seeked to achieve Free Markets.

The Tea Party is not the mark of a new style of governance in your lifetime. It is a populist outrage that has sprung up in times of economic fear, paranoia and discontent. They appear throughout history and whether they claim America is on a Cross of Gold, or that we are better off siding with Hitler than Roosevelt, or that Medicare will turn us into a Socialist Empire "like the Soviet Union," they always are the contrarian voice of history that live in the footnotes and in the minds of those who prefer living in ideology than reality.

You are correct in labeling the Tea Party as a "populist outrage" that is fuled by economic fear an discontent (and obviously a smidgen of paranoia), however that does nothing to dismiss it's irrelevance. After all Roosevelt's power came from similar feelings.

To compare the Tea Party to (almost nonexistent) calls for Americans siding with Hitler over FDR is an act of either severe ignorance or intentional intellectual dishonesty. (Of course it should be pointed out that the only difference between the policies of Hitler and FDR was on what race was deserving of Concentration Camps).

You deny there is a racist element in parts of this movement at your own peril. In any case, the day Obama is no longer president, there will be no Tea Party.

There is the crux of your entire position. I guarantee you the Tea Party will exists after a Republican comes into power.

The income tax is not leaving because most Americans will not part with their Social Security, Medicare, roads, etc. And if you don't think there is a populist anger at the Wall Street elite, then check out the latest poll numbers about what most Americans think of the Bush Tax Cuts. If you believe you can convince these people to sign off on a "FairTax" which is ultimately intended to make the rich richer by starving the government, you are delusional.

Of course one does not have to part with roads (or even Social Security or Medicare) and still be in favor of moving from an income tax to the FairTax as the FairTax is revenue neutral.

And again, you seem to think you're in the majority. The Tea Party at most is 10-15% of this country (I doubt that high) and I have met many Republicans from the D.C. area.

Republicans in the D.C. area are very difference from Republicans in Georgia, Texas, Idaho and Wyoming.

You are pulling the 10-15% number out of your prostate.

Rasmussen has 30% of Americans associating themselves with the "Tea Party" label. The number becomes much higher when you include Americans who care about the same issues that drive the Tea Party: fixing the economy, stopping big government, ousting corruption, repealing Healthcare Reform, etc. etc.
 
I feel the tea party is going to eventually replace the republicans-or something else will. The GOP is disenfranchizing a large generation of voters due to their stances on social issues. The dems arent doing themselves with their handling of all things fiscal. Not to mention, both sides contradict themselves on a regular basis.

I wouldnt be surprised if the biggest reform to come from the great recession is a new power party. The tea party is a joke, at the moment, but the fact that a new party with pretty much zero substance can gain so much ground says something about the peoples outlook on the current way the government runs.

I still think all of these problems are half thin air. Whoever won in 2008 was going to go through a big dip in popularity; nothing is a quick fix, espec. problems as vast as these. I believe as the economy hopefully gets better, Obamas approval rating will too.

He needs to be more to the center, though congress is making that tough.

Move to District FL-2 by 2014 ;)

What the...norm is going to be a politician, eh?
 
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