The Clinton Thread

[The Major]

Not a single Obama supporter would turn on him because of his VP choice. They just wont, becaue Obama is still the nominee, and they support him.

I disagree. You underestimate how polarizing Hilary is in the Democratic party.

Obama has a message of bringing people together, and putting Hillary on the ticket, could reinforce that message.

Obama already did that by showing how gracious he was to her during the primaries.

Putting her on the ticket for that single tag line isn't going to magically make her negatives go away.

Hilary's presence would be more of a vulnerability then a strength. She's simply not worth the risk.

He's starting by uniting his own party, and bringing his supporters and her supporters together.

He can do that without having her as his VP.

Then he can move on to the general election.

He can move on to the general election no matter who his VP is.

He will crossparty lines and work with repulibcans when he can.

Hilary will make that much more difficult to accomplish. They hate her more then the Democratic party does.

I could honestly see him offering McCain a cabinet position. I'm pretty sure he already made the offer, early on in the primary season. If McCain takes it, after the election, and that is feasible, as McCain is also willing to reach out, that will help Obama, after the election, gain the trust and support of Republicans and Independants.

Agreed.

 

[DACrowe]

Well I thought Hillary gave a good speech (if a month late) and had a good attempt to coerce her supporters into realizing Obama isn't all that is unholy on our planet.

But there was a muffled "boo" in the crowd which tells me about a quarter of the people there would resist.

The fact is I went over the last day to the blog-feminists of the world and their forum sites (I almost was tempted to try and debate them, but realized a person should never throw themselves into a vat of extreme danger) and they are furious. They still think Hillary Clinton will get the nomination in August and are damn certain if she doesn't that it isn't because she ran a worse campaign and loss, but they believe the Democratic Party stole it from her (oh yes, those 4 points in Michigan really would've saved her delgate difference). They think the DNC is run by sexists and Obama stole it from her by "using those cheating caucuses" and "He doesn't think like a good American should," the latter of which sounds like Bush. They call for Clinton to now run as an independent or they will vote for McCain. Their is even extremely racist phrases being thrown around like "mac before black."


I only state this because I think this is a vocal minority. You cannot reach out and ratonalize with them as they refuse to listen. But I think Hillary can speak to most of her supporters and if she runs with Obama and not on his ticket, they will listen. To put her on the ticket will not satisfy these crazies. They want her in the White house or not at all. And if she is on the ticket it gives ample ammo for McCain to aim at Obama for being "so weak he is manipulated by his own party" and taking the image of old politics onto his ticket.

I think this is a good start for Hillary Clinton to reach out to her supporters but there is a small but significant minority that will simply not vote for obama because they believe he stole the election, even if it is based on inanity like "Clinton played by the rules and Obama broke them when he ran."

It is a lost cause. I say keep doing what she's doing, but Obama needs a VP that will strengthen his image to swing voters and the majority of Americans, even if it just bitters those votes that are already lost.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Na Na NA Na
Na Na Na Na
Hey Hey Hey...
Goodbye!

That's right. Clinton is officially done. She's doing the smart thing by telling everyone who supported her to go to Obama's side.

 

[Matt]

Not necessarily. There is some truth to her statement.

There is absolutely no truth to her statement. Basically every president since Jimmy Carter has one thing in common. They have won the blue collar vote. A coalition of elitist baby boomers, black voters, and young voters will not be enough to carry the white house. Elderly, Hispanic, and blue collar voters will be the "swing," demographics that decide this election and at the moment Obama does not resonate with any of them.

And Donna is no joke. Not only is she a superdelegate, but she's a heavyweight who knows the inner workings of the party. But I agree that Obama will need more than that.

I am aware that she is successful and considered a political heavyweight. I still find her to be ridiculously stupid and blinded by her biases towards Obama. During her CNN coverage she flipped out on someone for claiming Reverend Wright was an electability issue for Obama saying how that is "wrong" and a "low blow." I mean, WTF? Does she think the issue is dead? Is she honestly so naive to think that PAC groups will not bring it up? Brazille is blinded by her biases in this election and that makes it very hard to take anything she says seriously.

 

[The Senator]

That's right. Clinton is officially done. She's doing the smart thing by telling everyone who supported her to go to Obama's side.

Nah, she just did the political thing. Deep down inside, I doubt she wanted to endorse him. She must be getting something out of it.

 

[Matt]

Nah, she just did the political thing. Deep down inside, I doubt she wanted to endorse him. She must be getting something out of it.

I doubt Obama wants her as VP. I mean, the soundbite of her (his running mate) saying "I think John McCain is more ready to be President than Barack Obama," is campaign suicide for Barry Obama in and of itself. I don't see how he can think it a good idea to make her his running mate. That is another aspect of what makes Sarah Palin such a brilliant choice for McCain. Bringing her in, in the next couple of weeks, while female Clinton supporters are still upset puts Obama in a box where he has to act. He may very well be forced to bring Hillary onto the ticket simply to salvage the female demographic.

 

[The Senator]

I doubt Obama wants her as VP. I mean, the soundbite of her (his running mate) saying "I think John McCain is more ready to be President than Barack Obama," is campaign suicide for Barry Obama in and of itself. I don't see how he can think it a good idea to make her his running mate. That is another aspect of what makes Sarah Palin such a brilliant choice for McCain. Bringing her in, in the next couple of weeks, while female Clinton supporters are still upset puts Obama in a box where he has to act. He may very well be forced to bring Hillary onto the ticket simply to salvage the female demographic.

I hope he doesn't pick her. Otherwise, I don't think I can vote for him, since he's doing the whole "status quo" thing he's so 'adamantly' against.

 

[Matt]

I hope he doesn't pick her. Otherwise, I don't think I can vote for him, since he's doing the whole "status quo" thing he's so 'adamantly' against.

I think it would do a lot of damage for him to pick her. Which makes bringing Palin on the ticket within the next two weeks such a smart move for McCain.

 

[The Senator]

I think it would do a lot of damage for him to pick her. Which makes bringing Palin on the ticket within the next two weeks such a smart move for McCain.

McCain isn't the brightest gaslight in ye olde town square. I expect him to announce his VP in August when no one will care.

 

[The Major]

There is absolutely no truth to her statement. Basically every president since Jimmy Carter has one thing in common. They have won the blue collar vote. A coalition of elitist baby boomers, black voters, and young voters will not be enough to carry the white house. Elderly, Hispanic, and blue collar voters will be the "swing," demographics that decide this election and at the moment Obama does not resonate with any of them.

I'm sure I remember hearing Obama won some blue collar states.

Not that he needs Hilary to bring them in, once America gets to know more about his policies even more will come to his side.

He could even bring this furthur along with his VP, not sure who but I'm sure he can find them. Only they won't have Hilary's baggage to drag him down.

 

[Matt]

I'm sure I remember hearing Obama won some blue collar states.

Not that he needs Hilary to bring them in, once America gets to know more about his policies even more will come to his side.

He could even bring this furthur along with his VP, not sure who but I'm sure he can find them. Only they won't have Hilary's baggage to drag him down.

He may have won blue collar states (though he has yet to win a rust belt state) but he has not won the demographic yet and polls indicate that the blue collar voters dislike him quite a bit.

 

[The Senator]

I'm sure I remember hearing Obama won some blue collar states.

Not that he needs Hilary to bring them in, once America gets to know more about his policies even more will come to his side.

He could even bring this furthur along with his VP, not sure who but I'm sure he can find them. Only they won't have Hilary's baggage to drag him down.

He won the caucus states of Iowa, Kansas and Nebraska. He lost virtually the entire rust belt region, which contain the most significant blue collar swing states (MI, OH, PA and IN).

 

[Matt]

McCain isn't the brightest gaslight in ye olde town square. I expect him to announce his VP in August when no one will care.

A politican doing the opposite of the logical thing? Wouldn't suprise me.

Still, you'd think his advisors would tell him, "The iron is hot. Strike it." McCain may not be overly bright, but Republican advisors tend to be a tad smarter than the Democratic ones in recent years.

 

[The Senator]

A politican doing the opposite of the logical thing? Wouldn't suprise me.

Still, you'd think his advisors would tell him, "The iron is hot. Strike it." McCain may not be overly bright, but Republican advisors tend to be a tad smarter than the Democratic ones in recent years.

Which is why the Republicans swept Congress in 2006.




Oh wait...

 

[Matt]

Which is why the Republicans swept Congress in 2006.




Oh wait...

That had nothing to do with intelligence of advisors and strategists. I mean, that was just a lost cause due to the Republican leadership. Between the President acting like a total idiot in regards to the economy and Iraq and the Congressional Republicans getting swept up in scandal at every turn, there was no way the Democrats could lose. There would literally have to be a media covered swinger party of every Democrat in Congress that offered child pornography for them to lose. The Democrats didn't win that one. The Republicans lost it.

 

[The Major]

A politican doing the opposite of the logical thing? Wouldn't suprise me.

Still, you'd think his advisors would tell him, "The iron is hot. Strike it." McCain may not be overly bright, but Republican advisors tend to be a tad smarter than the Democratic ones in recent years.

Not sure if they're smarter then Democratic advisers. They are far more ruthless with their tactics, though.

 

[Marx]

Laura Bush applauds Clinton, has advice for Michelle Obama
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...ton-–-and-has-some-advice-for-michelle-obama/

 

[souvlaki]

Laura Bush applauds Clinton, has advice for Michelle Obama
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...ton-–-and-has-some-advice-for-michelle-obama/

At first I thought this was going to be another prominent Republican (or in this case a prominent Republican's wife) defending Hillary, and slamming Obama in a transparent attempt to pick up Hillary voters (I've seen this a lot lately, notably from McCain, and Pat Buchanan) but after reading it, I'm glad to be proven wrong. I don't care much for her husband, but Laura Bush is a pretty classy lady. Good for her. Too bad she's married to a *****e bag.

 

[Marx]

At first I thought this was going to be another prominent Republican (or in this case a prominent Republican's wife) defending Hillary, and slamming Obama in a transparent attempt to pick up Hillary voters (I've seen this a lot lately, notably from McCain, and Pat Buchanan) but after reading it, I'm glad to be proven wrong. I don't care much for her husband, but Laura Bush is a pretty classy lady. Good for her. Too bad she's married to a *****e bag.

I can actually have respect for Laura Bush after reading her comments on Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. She has absolutely nothing to gain by what she said, but she said it anyway.

 

[DACrowe]

That had nothing to do with intelligence of advisors and strategists. I mean, that was just a lost cause due to the Republican leadership. Between the President acting like a total idiot in regards to the economy and Iraq and the Congressional Republicans getting swept up in scandal at every turn, there was no way the Democrats could lose. There would literally have to be a media covered swinger party of every Democrat in Congress that offered child pornography for them to lose. The Democrats didn't win that one. The Republicans lost it.

Don't forget Katrina and the federal government's most embarassing and depressing display of management in years.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Before I wanted Hillary on the ticket as a way to bring her supporters to Obama, but now I'm not so sure. It really depends. Is that the only way to get her to campaign for him, and really, really, get out there and campaign? Because she can energize a lot of women for him. He shouldn't have to pick her for that reason, but he might.

 

[kainedamo]

Despite what Matt and TheMarx say, having Clinton as VP on the ticket purely to win votes is a bad idea.

'Cause after election, she doesn't just go away - she's got the job of VP. People here have named a whole bunch of others who would be better in the VP position. She should be doing something else.

 

[Marx]

Despite what Matt and TheMarx say, having Clinton as VP on the ticket purely to win votes is a bad idea.

'Cause after election, she doesn't just go away - she's got the job of VP. People here have named a whole bunch of others who would be better in the VP position. She should be doing something else.

I honestly question how any other VP candidate would serve better than Clinton. That's not to say that I don't believe there aren't any others that are qualified. Clinton would serve well. Don't fault her for having a brain and knowing how to use it.

 

[Spider-Bite]

I honestly question how any other VP candidate would serve better than Clinton. That's not to say that I don't believe there aren't any others that are qualified. Clinton would serve well. Don't fault her for having a brain and knowing how to use it.

I keep going back and forth, but I guess I do want her as VP. I think she would make an effort to be cooperative and helpful, as that would be her best chance at being nominated in 2016. It would be a good way for her to win over Obama supporters she alienated, and give her a chance to prove herself to the liberal base. I think she'd be willing to do it, in order to get that.

And if she did a good job and tried to help Obama, I would show my appreciation and support her after Obama is done being president. Whether it's sincere or not, is irrelevant because most politicians are not sincere. the only way to ever get anythign done, is to support politicians who will do what you want.

and even though I wish she'd have dropped out a while ago, or at least crticized McCain more, and Obama less, I don't think she is an idiot. My biggest beef with her, is seriously voting for the Iraq war, voting to label Iran a terrorist organization, and opposing negotiations with Iran.

It might work to Obama's benefit as well to say, "Look my predecessor might not be as nice as I am, incase you haven't noticed. It will either be HIllary or a republican, so it's important that these negotiations today go somewhere and accomplish something while there is still time to avert a war."

And to Sean Hannity who keeps asking "What's the first thing you ask when you sit down with Armamaijad?" whatever his name is.

Obama needs to step and answer that question. "How do we avoid a war?" That is the first question he should ask him.

 

[The Major]

I honestly question how any other VP candidate would serve better than Clinton. That's not to say that I don't believe there aren't any others that are qualified. Clinton would serve well. Don't fault her for having a brain and knowing how to use it.

It's not her brain which is the problem, it's the baggage.

I keep going back and forth, but I guess I do want her as VP. I think she would make an effort to be cooperative and helpful, as that would be her best chance at being nominated in 2016. It would be a good way for her to win over Obama supporters she alienated, and give her a chance to prove herself to the liberal base. I think she'd be willing to do it, in order to get that.

She can do all that in her actions as a politician.

And if she did a good job and tried to help Obama, I would show my appreciation and support her after Obama is done being president. Whether it's sincere or not, is irrelevant because most politicians are not sincere. the only way to ever get anythign done, is to support politicians who will do what you want.

She doesn't need to be Obama's VP to do that.

and even though I wish she'd have dropped out a while ago, or at least crticized McCain more, and Obama less, I don't think she is an idiot. My biggest beef with her, is seriously voting for the Iraq war, voting to label Iran a terrorist organization, and opposing negotiations with Iran.

Hilary's definitely not an idiot, though she can be very ignorant and stubborn at times.

The problem comes in how she uses that intellect.

It might work to Obama's benefit as well to say, "Look my predecessor might not be as nice as I am, incase you haven't noticed. It will either be HIllary or a republican, so it's important that these negotiations today go somewhere and accomplish something while there is still time to avert a war."

And to Sean Hannity who keeps asking "What's the first thing you ask when you sit down with Armamaijad?" whatever his name is.

Obama giving an ultimatum like that to the party won't help Hilary. It would look like she's being forced on them, which would turn off many pro-Obama supporters. Most will hold their noses but many might not vote at all and perhaps feel betrayed by him. This is very bad since he needs all the votes he can get against McCain.

Her mere presence will recharge the Republicans with a cause to bring them together. Which means more of them will vote instead of sitting out the election.

The Republicans and Democrats will both grow tired of the Clinton's on the campaign trail. It was bad enough during the primaries. The media will have a field day with scandals they bring, too. Stuff like that will only alienate the Democrats and embolden the Republicans.

Obama needs to step and answer that question. "How do we avoid a war?" That is the first question he should ask him.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.