The Dark Knight Rises The Dark Knight Rises Info Hunters Thread - Part 2

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]348619[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]348466[/split]

 

[Anjow1060]

I'm sorry - but you can't just say people won't know who Ras is after Begins.

The success of TDK, Nolan's track record, the impact of Neeson and the repitition of "Ras Ahl Ghul" in Begins was 2nd only to the word "fear". It's just plain dumb to state the audience isn't gonna want to watch the other Batman movies again before they see TDKR.

That's like saying Barbosa coming back at the end of Pirates 2 the audience is gonna go "who is that?"

- Jow

 

[regwec]

Both Talia and the League could be used, just not as antagonists. If Batman is broken, he may very well go back to the beginning in order to rebuild himself. The League functions on its own form of honour, so he might be accepted back into their fold as the vanquisher of their last leader, by Talia, their new one. They might love each other physically while knowing that they are destined to be enemies.

 

[DARKxGOTHAMITE]

If Talia indeed is in this film I hope they give her a false last name. Talia Head is so stupid lol. I knoww its Ra's in english but everytime I read that in Hush I would snicker and my mind would wonder to dumb places.

 

[robthorn24]

LOL yes. That's been a major pillar of my Talia doubts. I think people are seriously overestimating the impact and freshness of BB in people's minds. It will be seven years later by the time of TDKR, with one colossally influential and culturally impactful Batman movie in between. I think Joker has pretty much erased people's memories of Ra's.

Obviously I'm slightly exaggerating, but I still think it'd be unwise to hinge an important element of TDKR on BB.

I don't think that TDKR will hinge hugely important elements on Begins, because like Nolan always states, he likes to look at each movie as a stand-alone film, even though it's part of a larger picture. That said... The hype and press for Rises will be so huge (especially as time draws nearer to July 20th, 2012) that I don't think peoples' memories will be erased in the slightest bit. In fact, I'm guessing that they will be reminded quite frequently that this is the third film in a series of Nolan Bat-films.

 

[Brother Jack]

That's like saying Barbosa coming back at the end of Pirates 2 the audience is gonna go "who is that?"

- Jow

Well, Barbosa came back in film 2 of that series. Ra's (and the League) was totally absent in TDK, with the exception of a small indirect line that would have only been noticed by people who were familiar with Begins anyway.

 

[Majik1387]

Whoa, new thread already? I knew we were close, but I didn't think that close.

I just don't see the League making a return at all. At most maybe a small reference for Bane(and that's pushing it for me) but nothing more.

 

[TheTrickster]

Both Talia and the League could be used, just not as antagonists. If Batman is broken, he may very well go back to the beginning in order to rebuild himself. The League functions on its own form of honour, so he might be accepted back into their fold as the vanquisher of their last leader, by Talia, their new one. They might love each other physically while knowing that they are destined to be enemies.

If Talia is in it I see it playing out similar to this. However, I see him heading out east to get his mind and body fixed meeting Talia and not knowing that she is Ra's daughter. She'll probably try to holt his recovery as she is in league with Bane.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

I'm sorry - but you can't just say people won't know who Ras is after Begins.

The success of TDK, Nolan's track record, the impact of Neeson and the repitition of "Ras Ahl Ghul" in Begins was 2nd only to the word "fear". It's just plain dumb to state the audience isn't gonna want to watch the other Batman movies again before they see TDKR.

That's like saying Barbosa coming back at the end of Pirates 2 the audience is gonna go "who is that?"

- Jow

I can't speak for Nuffsaid (even though I assume he was at least partially tongue in cheek), but again, of course I'm not talking about people LITERALLY NOT REMEMBERING who Ra's al Ghul was.

It's a matter of cultural relevance. I'm not one of those "the audience is dumb" people. But you also have to take yourself out of the equation and look at it objectively. Most people I know (anecdotal, I know), who aren't film buffs or comic fans, own TDK on dvd, but not Batman Begins.

All I was saying was that I think, being a comic fan, one tends to overestimate the relevance of certain things. That's not to say that people will go "Who's Ra's al Ghul?"; simply that I wouldn't expect people to go "WOW RA'S DAUGHTER!! WHAT A TWIST!! OMG! " They'll probably go, "Oh, okay. Interesting."

And that's fine. All I'm saying is, we see things a little differently. To us, she's Talia, daughter of the Demon! To most others, she'll be "So the guy from the first movie had a daughter, okay cool."

 

[robthorn24]

For some reason, I just don't see Bruce saying to Alfred "Remember those guys that burned down the Manor a while back? Yeah the League of Shadows. I'm going to go back to them to recover, re-train, and eat Snack Packs."

 

[flickchick85]

Both Talia and the League could be used, just not as antagonists. If Batman is broken, he may very well go back to the beginning in order to rebuild himself.

I'd definitely prefer this to a revenge a plot. I wouldn't put it past Nolan to combine Talia and Lady Shiva like this, and it wouldn't feel like a retread, either.

 

[jmc]

New thread, everyone take a drink. t:

 

[jmc]

I can't speak for Nuffsaid (even though I assume he was at least partially tongue in cheek), but again, of course I'm not talking about people LITERALLY NOT REMEMBERING who Ra's al Ghul was.

It's a matter of cultural relevance. I'm not one of those "the audience is dumb" people. But you also have to take yourself out of the equation and look at it objectively. Most people I know (anecdotal, I know), who aren't film buffs or comic fans, own TDK on dvd, but not Batman Begins.

All I was saying was that I think, being a comic fan, one tends to overestimate the relevance of certain things. That's not to say that people will go ''Who's Ra's al Ghul?''; simply that I wouldn't expect people to go ''WOW RA'S DAUGHTER!! WHAT A TWIST!! OMG! '' They'll probably go, ''Oh, okay. Interesting.''

And that's fine. All I'm saying is, we see things a little differently. To us, she's Talia, daughter of the Demon! To most others, she'll be ''So the guy from the first movie had a daughter, okay cool.''

That's the other thing, in terms of twists it's not exactly a big one.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

edit

 

[Gianakin_]

Both Talia and the League could be used, just not as antagonists. If Batman is broken, he may very well go back to the beginning in order to rebuild himself. The League functions on its own form of honour, so he might be accepted back into their fold as the vanquisher of their last leader, by Talia, their new one. They might love each other physically while knowing that they are destined to be enemies.

That is actually a very good and fresh idea.

 

[robthorn24]

New thread, everyone take a drink. t:

LOL

 

[flickchick85]

New thread, everyone take a drink. t:

The rate these threads are going, we'll all be at risk of alcohol poisoning if we turn this into a drinking game.

 

[Majik1387]

I can't speak for Nuffsaid (even though I assume he was at least partially tongue in cheek), but again, of course I'm not talking about people LITERALLY NOT REMEMBERING who Ra's al Ghul was.

It's a matter of cultural relevance. I'm not one of those "the audience is dumb" people. But you also have to take yourself out of the equation and look at it objectively. Most people I know (anecdotal, I know), who aren't film buffs or comic fans, own TDK on dvd, but not Batman Begins.

All I was saying was that I think, being a comic fan, one tends to overestimate the relevance of certain things. That's not to say that people will go "Who's Ra's al Ghul?"; simply that I wouldn't expect people to go "WOW RA'S DAUGHTER!! WHAT A TWIST!! OMG! " They'll probably go, "Oh, okay. Interesting."

And that's fine. All I'm saying is, we see things a little differently. To us, she's Talia, daughter of the Demon! To most others, she'll be "So the guy from the first movie had a daughter, okay cool."

Agreed, but I also feel that way about the Falcone kids as well.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

The rate these threads are going, we'll all be at risk of alcohol poisoning if we turn this into a drinking game.

Lets do it!

 

[StarLord]

I'm sorry - but you can't just say people won't know who Ras is after Begins.

The success of TDK, Nolan's track record, the impact of Neeson and the repitition of "Ras Ahl Ghul" in Begins was 2nd only to the word "fear". It's just plain dumb to state the audience isn't gonna want to watch the other Batman movies again before they see TDKR.

That's like saying Barbosa coming back at the end of Pirates 2 the audience is gonna go "who is that?"

- Jow

I entirely agree.

 

[Saint]

Both Talia and the League could be used, just not as antagonists. If Batman is broken, he may very well go back to the beginning in order to rebuild himself. The League functions on its own form of honour, so he might be accepted back into their fold as the vanquisher of their last leader, by Talia, their new one. They might love each other physically while knowing that they are destined to be enemies.

Another possibility is that the Shadows might consider Bruce their leader, having bested the previous (especially considering Ra's meant for Bruce to lead, anyway).

 

[Doctor Who]

I'm sorry - but you can't just say people won't know who Ras is after Begins.

The success of TDK, Nolan's track record, the impact of Neeson and the repitition of "Ras Ahl Ghul" in Begins was 2nd only to the word "fear". It's just plain dumb to state the audience isn't gonna want to watch the other Batman movies again before they see TDKR.

That's like saying Barbosa coming back at the end of Pirates 2 the audience is gonna go "who is that?"

- Jow

Very true; honestly, Neeson deserves more recognition as Ra's Al Ghul, especially after BB. I know he's not exactly as "well known" like the Joker, or Two-Face, or Riddler, but from a fan who's watched the cartoons, read the books, and played with the toys since he was 2, you'd think they'd have him talked about in the same breath of some of Batman's main rogue's gallery of villains.

 

[Stelze]

I don't think that TDKR will hinge hugely important elements on Begins, because like Nolan always states, he likes to look at each movie as a stand-alone film, even though it's part of a larger picture.

Well I think it is somehow inevitable to hinge elements from the previous movies. Even in TDK many scenes mirrored others from Begins.
A good sequel has to be a good stand alone film, but it can't just throw over main facts and aspects of the previous film(s).
Look at the Highlander movies for example, the first movie was great and in the second one they came up with some alien race crap for the immortals. And don't get me started on the other sequels.

Nolan knows how to do good movies. All of the films he did were great. There have been better and worse moments inside Nolans filmography, but every single movie was of high quality storywise. (with better and worse I mean measured by Nolan standards.)

What I'm trying to say is, BB and TDK are linked in so many ways, but can also be watched separately.
But I can see how it would be a bad idea to bring up the League again, just because so many people that have seen TDK and would go and watch the sequel, didn't watch Begins. But oh well, that's their problem.

I'm tired, so I hope my post makes any sense...

 

[Anjow1060]

idc whether or not you guys think he is known by normal people or if it's a fact that most don't know.

My point is - Nolan doesn't cater to anyone or anything but his story. And if Jonah and Goyer say - hey: You don't have to bring back Neeson, but his character has a daughter in the comics that was a love interest to Batman and could make for a great antagonist to show Catwoman's heroic side and Nolan said "Alright chaps, I like it. Let's do it." Then it's gonna happen. The man doesn't sit there going "Gee, I wonder how this will affect marketing."

Case in point - if she's in the film it's because there's a reason and it works. That's why TNT couldn't edit a single damn scene out of TDK. There is NOTHING you can cut from the movie that doesn't relate to everything else that happened(s). TDKR will be no different. In fact, I distinctly remember seeing an interview somewhere that Nolan said in order to trim down TDK he looked at every scene and if it didn't serve the story in 3 or more ways - he cut it.

Tell me the man is just gonna "throw talia in there for the hell of it." Or better yet - cut her because he's worried no one will know who LIAM NEESON's character was.

- Jow