The Dark Knight The-Dark-Knight's Joker-Observation-What's the Twist?

[I-T-B]

We know that it is indeed Heath in the "Grumpy" mask/outfit:
And it looks like the same shirt in the original pictake image. Just, since it's taken from very far away (like on the tenth floor of a building, just zoomed in a bunch) it's harder to see the detail like design.

Thanks, I hadn't seen those pictures. Looking at those, with him not wearing makeup, and being able to see his eyes in the I-Max picture (so they will be clearly visible in an I-Max theater), would lead me to believe that this is pre-Joker. But that wouldn't allow for the reveal as depicted in the sides. If it is just flesh colored make-up that he wipes off, then he won't have the panda eyes, unless that's not make-up as we suspected. And there's no way he can wipe out the brown color of his hair. Unless there are two bank robberies , pre-Joker, post joker. Perhaps he robs one bank, has a tiff with Batman, and falls into the acid.He then returns to his hideout, with his mask on, and robs another bank (or the same one, perhaps Batman scared them off before they could get the money). Then Joker reveals his face to the teller (as well as his gang and the audience) and they all escape in the bus. I guess we'll all know for certain at 3:00 AM on July 18th, 2008.

 

[CaptainClown]

clearly one of them is AMH (clears throat)

 

[GUNSLINGER]

clearly one of them is AMH (clears throat)

could be, but this whole AMH thing is giving me a figging headache, AGGGHHHHHH!!!!

nygma BLAck MAskkk NYggnmaa Joker DEux e e e JoHn Paul Valley GG h lk sll; nymgamnaa mask of blak thet is un vallEY pAul of Saint john Ridles Of ccathDREALLSS

 

[GUNSLINGER]

I GOTTTTI ITTT HES BANE! LOL. in love with the joker and they run awya tooo the bahmamsa aaaaa a a a whoi is heee!!!!!!!!

 

[CaptainClown]

could be, but this whole AMH thing is giving me a figging headache, AGGGHHHHHH!!!!

nygma BLAck MAskkk NYggnmaa Joker DEux e e e JoHn Paul Valley GG h lk sll; nymgamnaa mask of blak thet is un vallEY pAul of Saint john Ridles Of ccathDREALLSS

I know its so ridiculous huh?

 

[GUNSLINGER]

yep they need to just spill it

 

[sglass03]

This thread perfectly gets at what I was arguing a week or two ago in the Joker thread: that the bank scene is not only a total puzzle right now, but it's also the key to who/what Joker is really doing in the film.

I have heard no good explanation yet for why Joker goes through so many changes in this one scene. Clearly, as can be seen from the pic, he has no panda eyes and brown hair (or brown hair with very subtle hints of green) while wearing the mask, while entering the bank, etc. Even in the bank, according to the IMAX photo, he has brown hair and no panda eyes.

Then, we get the OTHER IMAX photo - where we can see him wearing the same shirt, yet having substantially greener hair, a white face, the smile, and the panda eyes. It even appears that he's holding the mask in one hands (the right), which suggests this is the scene where he reveals himself to the bank manager (as seen in the sides.)

Here's the problem: how does Joker go from no-green hair, no-panda eyed when entering the bank, to full-on Joker when the mask comes off inside? Surely he doesn't apply the makeup while in the bank - that's redundant, unrealistic, and clearly impossible considering the time (or lack therof.) Yet it also seems unlikely that he could wipe off the "regular" pink makeup and make his hair greener in that same time period, at least in the time it takes to use a towel or splash water on his face.

So my question is, and so far there's been no answer - what the @!#$% happens in that bank? Do the sprinklers go off and wash away his "regular" makeup? Many sources (and trusted ones at that) have stated that Joker is Joker from the beginning of the film - at least in terms of looks. Then how can we possibly explain this? We're clearly not getting the full picture re: Joker's look - something has been pulled over our eyes, and Nolan is behind it, I'm sure.

What it does suggest, though, is that Joker, whether he dresses up in "clown" makeup or not, is clearly wearing something (either makeup or a disguise) OVER his white/panda eye face, and it comes off in a hurry. I can't see any other explanation.

 

[GUNSLINGER]

i heard some where that there will be some sort of trauma done to joker by batman, ie the scars i ve' seen those pics but perhaps it is a progression of change that culminates with this so called trauma, from the pics i've seen it looks as if its just plain old heath under that mask in the bank, perhaps with a slight green tint of hair, perhaps its die, i don't know, but maybe after this scene is when batman injures him making him focus all his crazy hatred at dent, batman and the city that harbors him.

 

[GUNSLINGER]

this could be the one twist every one is talking about, he becomes joker but not like the one were used too, with already bleached skin, maybe he just uses makeup, from the knife pic it looks like it is just applied. even in the first viral pic, to me it looks applied. just really dark a lit from the top making the scar look more grotesque due to lighting position.

 

[GUNSLINGER]

Thanks, I hadn't seen those pictures. Looking at those, with him not wearing makeup, and being able to see his eyes in the I-Max picture (so they will be clearly visible in an I-Max theater), would lead me to believe that this is pre-Joker. But that wouldn't allow for the reveal as depicted in the sides. If it is just flesh colored make-up that he wipes off, then he won't have the panda eyes, unless that's not make-up as we suspected. And there's no way he can wipe out the brown color of his hair. Unless there are two bank robberies , pre-Joker, post joker. Perhaps he robs one bank, has a tiff with Batman, and falls into the acid.He then returns to his hideout, with his mask on, and robs another bank (or the same one, perhaps Batman scared them off before they could get the money). Then Joker reveals his face to the teller (as well as his gang and the audience) and they all escape in the bus. I guess we'll all know for certain at 3:00 AM on July 18th, 2008.

this makes sense!

 

[Kaizer]

could perhaps the pics of him with the mask and no make-up be a different robbery of the same bank? a flashback to a robbery that went wrong perhaps, and then he returns to take revenge after his transformation? ....him wearing the same clothes still doesn't make sense though

 

[CaptainClown]

could perhaps the pics of him with the mask and no make-up be a different robbery of the same bank? a flashback to a robbery that went wrong perhaps, and then he returns to take revenge after his transformation? ....him wearing the same clothes still doesn't make sense though

JOKER HAS NO TIME FOR DRY CLEANING!

 

[GUNSLINGER]

the joker is a skateboarding bum who shops at the DAV and only changes once a year!

 

[GUNSLINGER]

you see he poured all his bank money into getting his toxin perfected and got stressed out went to miami for lipo and a face lift but.........alas the doctor was a political refugee from cuba, he botches the surgery takes the money and leaves for Palma or maybe he moves to gotham and opened a falafel vendor

 

[GUNSLINGER]

Ha Ha!

 

[I-T-B]

So, I was thinking about what I said earlier, and it could be a possibility. However, my last post was kind of a mess, so allow me to break it down.

• In the bank robbery scene, Heath Ledger wearing no makeup, not even any hair dye, has done a scene in which he robs a bank with several others, all in clown masks.
• The first I-Max picture shows Heath in all his masked glory, still no makeup or hairdye. His eyes can be seen through the mask, and his skin is obviously flesh colored, not white, nor panda. No way can he be in Joker makeup. Were he wearing flesh makeup, this would make the reveal scene as seen in the sides impossible, as he could not have time with the silent alarm tripped, to apply black make up to his eyes, or put on lipstick, nor would that be at all dramatic.
• We know from the second I-Max picture that Heath does in fact appear in full make up in the bank, and he appears to be holding his mask, as well as bent over the camera in what looks to me like a POV of the bank teller, after the Joker has removed his mask. We know that he cannot be wearing this makeup throughout the entire robbery, as shown in the first I-Max picture. Perhaps two bank robberies of the same bank, then?
• Ah, but as far as we know, only one approach of the bank was shot. As well as only one get away.
• Perhaps a scenario like this, then: Pre-Joker and his thugs go all out on a goony, crazy robbery. This fails when the police arrive, causing for a chase scene involving a bunch of school buses. The gang make it to a chemical plant through a series of blind turns, and decide it's time to ditch the bus. They enter the chemical plant to hideout, but Batman shows up, and injures pre-Joker's mouth somehow, who then falls in acid (and Burton isn't the only one to have included Batman in Joker's birth, so don't start that crap.) Pre-Joker, now Joker, returns to his hideout, mask still on, and convinces the gang to return to the bank, or perhaps threatens them to. This is a much more calm robbery. Perhaps the classic stroll in, pat the back of the turned teller "I'll be with you in moment," who then turns around to have a gun thrust in his face, which would lead to the Joker's big, bank robbery reveal when one of the thugs decides this guy's too crazy for his tastes.

I realize it's all speculation at this point, but I figure that's what this thread's for, and danged if I didn't have a helluva lot of fun thinking all this out.

 

[Batman jr.]

fair enough

What's that ?

Joker in the bank robbery scene is hiding himself from his thugs. Grumpy is Joker, but his goons don't know that. Bank manager is scared at the sight of Joker, in the pic with Nolan directing hair is all green; while the pic with the thug pointing a gun at Joker clearly shows no green hair.

BUT... Of course he uses make-up, to hide himself. But how does his hair become green? Maybe the fire was used for this scene, it set the sprinklers of and all of a sudden, Joker's there, in full glory... and he takes of his mask... Horrified Bank manager says some stupid things Joker kills him, leaves a calling card... (and of course, other thug is dead too)

CUT TO opening credits!!!!

 

[Kaizer]

CUT TO opening credits!!!!

since there were no opening credits in Begins, I hope they do the same for this one, to keep some kind of continuity

 

[CaptainClown]

since there were no opening credits in Begins, I hope they do the same for this one, to keep some kind of continuity

Ya for some reason those kind of things bother me. Like when they change the dvd so when i buy the sequel it doesn't match up or the dvd menu is different and lamer then the previous movies... damn this movie ocd!

 

[Drunken Savior]

Maybe Joker gets scarred accidentially and applies makeup then(Joker/Rachel photo). Not satisfied with the makeup, what if he later finds a way to bleach his entire body? (Just something I've been kicking around)

 

[Two-Face]

So, I was thinking about what I said earlier, and it could be a possibility. However, my last post was kind of a mess, so allow me to break it down.

• In the bank robbery scene, Heath Ledger wearing no makeup, not even any hair dye, has done a scene in which he robs a bank with several others, all in clown masks.
• The first I-Max picture shows Heath in all his masked glory, still no makeup or hairdye. His eyes can be seen through the mask, and his skin is obviously flesh colored, not white, nor panda. No way can he be in Joker makeup. Were he wearing flesh makeup, this would make the reveal scene as seen in the sides impossible, as he could not have time with the silent alarm tripped, to apply black make up to his eyes, or put on lipstick, nor would that be at all dramatic.
• We know from the second I-Max picture that Heath does in fact appear in full make up in the bank, and he appears to be holding his mask, as well as bent over the camera in what looks to me like a POV of the bank teller, after the Joker has removed his mask. We know that he cannot be wearing this makeup throughout the entire robbery, as shown in the first I-Max picture. Perhaps two bank robberies of the same bank, then?
• Ah, but as far as we know, only one approach of the bank was shot. As well as only one get away.
• Perhaps a scenario like this, then: Pre-Joker and his thugs go all out on a goony, crazy robbery. This fails when the police arrive, causing for a chase scene involving a bunch of school buses. The gang make it to a chemical plant through a series of blind turns, and decide it's time to ditch the bus. They enter the chemical plant to hideout, but Batman shows up, and injures pre-Joker's mouth somehow, who then falls in acid (and Burton isn't the only one to have included Batman in Joker's birth, so don't start that crap.) Pre-Joker, now Joker, returns to his hideout, mask still on, and convinces the gang to return to the bank, or perhaps threatens them to. This is a much more calm robbery. Perhaps the classic stroll in, pat the back of the turned teller "I'll be with you in moment," who then turns around to have a gun thrust in his face, which would lead to the Joker's big, bank robbery reveal when one of the thugs decides this guy's too crazy for his tastes.

I realize it's all speculation at this point, but I figure that's what this thread's for, and danged if I didn't have a helluva lot of fun thinking all this out.

I would love that if happened.

 

[Droogoonie789]

In the bank scene, hes wearing all skin-colored makeup. Do you really think he has time to take a bath? It could be wearin off eventually throughout the film, eventually coming off all the way at the end.

 

[jtfaria]

Remember, there were hostages taken from the bank robbery, too. I don't think you take hostages from a bank robbery unless things have gone badly (like the cops show up) and you're not secure in your, uh, exit strategy. So what you're saying makes sense to me.

 

[Reek]

I see what u mean now. Interesting.

Joker may have self inflicted wounds to make him appear to have a bigger smile and tried to split the sides of his lips. Not too much of a stretch to imagine, it would make sense.

As for the skin, I'm reminded of Michael Jackson and his cover up appearance with his sickness, Vitiligo. Maybe they'll show him in the beginning falling into the vat and as the film progresses, he attempts to make cover ups with makeup because his skin color is deteriorating and bleaching white. And as he continues with his crimes he comes up with a gimmick and attempts to split the lips in a psychotic episode because the chemicals are beginning to take over his sanity. It's a loose & longshot kind of theory but it is somewhat plausible.

now that would be one crazy, disturbing, FANTASTIC scene. could be the first time we hear his laugh, while hes self inflicting his smile...it might be a little to messed up for kids tho. but it would show how crazy he really is.

also i heard Joker gets arrested in the beginning of the movie, then escapes with help from the mob. "they crossed the line".

 

[Arkard]

Carving yourself is not a sign of insanity but an indication of inclination towards emo. Goddammit, what in Joker's 70 year old history ever HINT at a possibility of self mutilation? Seriously, are all of you so eager to forgive horrid character mistakes by branding them as "actions of a loony". Well then, I dont see wh yany of you would have a problem with a bare feet rastafarian Joker. I mean he is clearly crazy... sheesh...