The FFINO ZONE - Part 1

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I don't blame Marvel for giving up the rights those many years ago, but I do blame them for not being more aggressive to get them back when (I believe) they had the chance.

Two years ago, I believe Fox management was very split on going ahead with this film. I think they would have given the rights back to Marvel for a reasonable price at that time. But I think Marvel gambled that Fox wouldn't make the film and they would get the rights back for nothing.

We can only speculate on the details, but if Marvel had the chance and just wasn't willing to pay enough, they deserve some blame.
 
DarthSkywalker said:
Shouldn't you be mad at Marvel for selling the rights in the first place?
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Of course not. That's like saying if someone rents a car and then gets drunk and wraps it around a tree that the rental place is to blame rather than the driver.

Marvel didn't make this movie. Fox did. If it sucks (as the first two FF movies sucked), then that is Fox's fault, not Marvel's.
 
SomeOldGuy said:
I dunno. Makes a lot of sense to me that a studio would decline to negotiate from a position of weakness. Fox's continued struggles with FF give them no leverage to drive (from their point in of view) a good bargain. Contrast that with Sony. TASM2 made $700 million WW, and whatever the issues with the marketing spend, Sony could go right on making Spider-Man movies and money without Marvel. That gave them leverage to get what they wanted out of a deal.

If this latest effort flops, I think that makes it less likely, not more, that Marvel gets a taste of the FF any time soon.
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Actually they couldn't. The box office was down trending like crazy, and they got no merch money from Spider-Man. They were dangerously close to starting to lose money.
 
Kahran Ramsus said:
Of course not. That's like saying if someone rents a car and then gets drunk and wraps it around a tree that the rental place is to blame rather than the driver.

Marvel didn't make this movie. Fox did. If it sucks (as the first two FF movies sucked), then that is Fox's fault, not Marvel's.
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Did you read the conversation?

Not for making this movie. For not having the rights. Marvel sold them. I understand what their predicament was, but they are also responsible for their own financial problems.
 
Willie Lumpkin said:
I don't blame Marvel for giving up the rights those many years ago, but I do blame them for not being more aggressive to get them back when (I believe) they had the chance.

Two years ago, I believe Fox management was very split on going ahead with this film. I think they would have given the rights back to Marvel for a reasonable price at that time. But I think Marvel gambled that Fox wouldn't make the film and they would get the rights back for nothing.

We can only speculate on the details, but if Marvel had the chance and just wasn't willing to pay enough, they deserve some blame.
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Don't blame Marvel. Blame Avi Arad.

At the time, Toy Biz (headed by eventual Marvel Films/Studios founder Avi Arad) had purchased the struggling Marvel Comics, and were doing anything they could to put the company back in the black. Their solution was to license out the character rights. Namely the film rights.

Now, normally, that wouldn't be an issue. But in this case, they licensed them out in perpetuity. This basically meaning that as long as the rights are being used, Marvel will never get them back.

I'm 100% sure that the heads at Marvel would've preferred not to do that (and alot of the current staffers and MS heads resent Avi for doing that), but it was out of their control.

TL;DR It's literally all Avi Arad's fault. He sold the film rights. And as a bigger inadvertent, 15 years early F-you to Marvel and Disney, he sold the amusement park rights to Universal in perpetuity. So now, Disney can't use Marvel in their parks, in addition to now owning the film rights for Spider-Man, X-Men, and the extremely Disney friendly Fantastic Four.
 
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SomeOldGuy said:
I dunno. Makes a lot of sense to me that a studio would decline to negotiate from a position of weakness. Fox's continued struggles with FF give them no leverage to drive (from their point in of view) a good bargain. Contrast that with Sony. TASM2 made $700 million WW, and whatever the issues with the marketing spend, Sony could go right on making Spider-Man movies and money without Marvel. That gave them leverage to get what they wanted out of a deal.

If this latest effort flops, I think that makes it less likely, not more, that Marvel gets a taste of the FF any time soon.
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I'm not inclined to disagree. However, it's completely ridiculous that they had a Daredevil movie in active development with a director and everything, but let it all go to waste in favor of characters they won't use again anytime soon, if not ever.
That being said, doesn't it seem understandably frustrating that this company is using these characters in a piss poor way, not once, not twice, but on three separate occasions? Doesn't it make sense why some people are less than enthused with the direction Fox is taking this franchise? Marvel turned a talking raccoon and a guy who rides ants into box office successes, there's no doubt they can do so with the FF.
These questions aren't directed at you, by the way. Just my way of venting frustration about the whole thing.
 
Darkraid said:
Marvel doesn't have any beef with DC or any other studios except Fox.

I hope they continue doing this. Fox is a piece of turd because of messing up all the Marvel properties on purpose.
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Pretty much. I mean, sure, fans get up in arms about DC vs Marvel rivalry, but that kind of fan rivalry is good for business all around.

I think the trigger point was the Daredevil movie rights extension. At that point, the FF rights ceased to be a way for Fox to make movies, and became a way for Fox to extract money from Marvel. Marvel Studios isn't offended by other studios using their licenses to make movies, but it should be about *making movies*.
 
DarthSkywalker said:
Did you read the conversation?

Not for making this movie. For not having the rights. Marvel sold them. I understand what their predicament was, but they are also responsible for their own financial problems.
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I think the problem always comes back to these movies not being any good. If Fox was making great Fantastic Four movies, the vast majority of these rights complaints would disappear.
 
SomeOldGuy said:
I dunno. Makes a lot of sense to me that a studio would decline to negotiate from a position of weakness. Fox's continued struggles with FF give them no leverage to drive (from their point in of view) a good bargain. Contrast that with Sony. TASM2 made $700 million WW, and whatever the issues with the marketing spend, Sony could go right on making Spider-Man movies and money without Marvel. That gave them leverage to get what they wanted out of a deal.

If this latest effort flops, I think that makes it less likely, not more, that Marvel gets a taste of the FF any time soon.
Click to expand...

Eh, that's really not the case. Sony was up a creek without a paddle: TASM2 *didn't* make them significant money, due to the ridiculous budget and the lack of any merchandising. Combine that with the trend line for Spider-man movie revenue, and Sony's general financial trouble? They had to make a deal. As is, because they had a good working relationship with Marvel, they got a fairly sweet deal.

Your right that Fox couldn't get a very good deal for the FF rights at the time. Here's the thing: this is because, in Fox's hands, the FF rights *aren't* worth much of anything. They've proven that repeatedly, and are almost certainly going to prove it again. The problem is that Fox is valuing the rights based on what *Marvel* can do with them, whereas Marvel values the rights based on how much they *need* them. Thus the disagreement, as while the rights are very useful to Marvel, they aren't even slightly necessary.
 
Kahran Ramsus said:
I think the problem always comes back to these movies not being any good. If Fox was making great Fantastic Four movies, the vast majority of these rights complaints would disappear.
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I would have been thrilled if Fox nailed FF. Marvel has made some good films, but all of them have flaws and none of them have quite captured all the elements of fantasy, adventure, characterization and visuals that I enjoyed in comic books as a kid.

I would love to see Fox make a great FF film that showed Marvel how good it could be and pushed Marvel to the next level.

But that obviously didn't happen.
 
Flint Marko said:
I'm not inclined to disagree. However, it's completely ridiculous that they had a Daredevil movie in active development with a director and everything, but let it all go to waste in favor of characters they won't use again anytime soon, if not ever.
That being said, doesn't it seem understandably frustrating that this company is using these characters in a piss poor way, not once, not twice, but on three separate occasions? Doesn't it make sense why some people are less than enthused with the direction Fox is taking this franchise? Marvel turned a talking raccoon and a guy who rides ants into box office successes, there's no doubt they can do so with the FF.
These questions aren't directed at you, by the way. Just my way of venting frustration about the whole thing.
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I completely understand. It stinks that we can't get a quality FF movie and it's even worse that what's arguably the second-best rogue's gallery in comics (after Batman) is tied up too. And it absolutely baffles me why it's so hard for Fox to put out a good movie. It's not that freaking complicated; there are decades of existing stories to draw from.
 
metaphysician said:
The problem is that Fox is valuing the rights based on what *Marvel* can do with them, whereas Marvel values the rights based on how much they *need* them. Thus the disagreement, as while the rights are very useful to Marvel, they aren't even slightly necessary.
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Yup, and therein lies the problem. Marvel has no reason to offer more than the minimum for the rights and Fox has no leverage to ask for more.
 
Doubt it. He seems like a troll from his past comments, if you look at his profile

Still, no way of knowing if either have seen it
 
Urich Leeds said:
Don't blame Marvel. Blame Avi Arad.
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I do. Daily.

People talk 'Marvel' like it's some living, thinking entity. It's not. It's the people who make the decisions that are responsible for the decisions made. And everyone involved, from Disney honchos all the way down to the lowliest fanboy, even 20+ years later has to live with the ramifications of Arad's greed and shortsightedness.
 
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Avi Arad is basically a cuss word for me. When I heard he was producing Naruto, I was like, "That Avi Arading son of an Arad!"
 
Willie Lumpkin said:
There's someone who claims to have seen it in the comments here. Could be complete BS, so read with grain of salt, but he does include a lot of details:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/72535
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I thought I'd click on the guys name to see what came up there. Takes you to a list of his other...umm....comments....The felllow certainly does not 'varnish' his opinions...Yikes.

So yup. Grain of salt taken with this one.
 
Also noteworthy that he claims his name is now Von Doom. Another user who claimed to have seen it said it was Domashev. So I really don't know who to believe.
 
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