The Flash The Flash Episode 16: "Rogue Time

[Boy Scout]

How do you guys feel about the possibility of the Rogues eventually becoming metahumans?

 

[JaD]

It's still a leap from believing Wells entirely to "You were right about everything" is a bit much, if it had started Barry looking into Wells then sure, but he did a complete 180.

It was a pretty sharp turn indeed, but if anything it was that whole "cliffhanger at the end of an episode" shtick. I still think Barry would have connected the dots at that point.

 

[CaptainWagner]

How do you guys feel about the possibility of the Rogues eventually becoming metahumans?

I hope so, eventually. But not until a later season.

 

[Batmannerism]

I give it a 7/10 (last week was a 10/10)

Good: Barry's forgiveness of Cisco, and Eddie's forgiveness of Barry, seemed very genuine.

Cisco's moments with his bro.

Cisco's scene with Wells.

Reverse-Flash being awesomely nasty.


Bad:

A gun that shoots gold........come on, really ? Kind of makes Casino heists a bit redundant (yes, I realize they do crime for fun, but a gun that shoots gold is still dumb !)

The Flash and Cold coming to an understanding, hmmm..... seems problematic for future stories.


Painful:

Barry and Iris, ouch.

It still bugs me that while the Rogues are resourceful, cunning and nasty (and gleefully OTT, which makes them great fun), they are still just guys with guns. Barry disarms the Casino thugs, literally in a flash ! The writers need to be a bit smarter about why he doesn't just do the same to the Rogues - they manage this in the comics reasonably well, time to crack open some classic Flash stories and get some help.

Otherwise a pretty decent episode !

 

[Boy Scout]

Am I the only one who thinks that the Reverse Flash, as they've presented him, is a villain that should only be sparingly used? I feel like he becomes a little less scary the more we see of him.

 

[Hunter Rider]

It was a pretty sharp turn indeed, but if anything it was that whole "cliffhanger at the end of an episode" shtick. I still think Barry would have connected the dots at that point.

I think with these shows trying to cram in a villain of the week as well as continuing the overarching plots, they often arrive at points where they need to accelerate things in a manner that feels too abrupt.

 

[747]

I love time travel elements and Miller's Cold. So I dug this episode.

Barry's "you and you're rogues gallery" line felt forced but Cold's "the rogues.. cute." was a real smile inducer.

 

[Cain]

A gun that shoots gold........come on, really ? Kind of makes Casino heists a bit redundant (yes, I realize they do crime for fun, but a gun that shoots gold is still dumb !)

It doesn't shoot gold. Her "All that glitters..." quote when she first uses the gun is pretty deliberate. That popular phrase always ends with: "...isn't gold".

The Flash and Cold coming to an understanding, hmmm..... seems problematic for future stories.

Worked perfectly fine in the comics. Then and now.

 

[Golgo-13]

Wait a minute, since Barry was running alongside his future/past self, shouldn't there then be 2 Barrys/Flashes present in the same day; the one who is living it for the first time, and the second who is re-living it…….?

 

[JaD]

Wait a minute, since Barry was running alongside his future/past self, shouldn't there then be 2 Barrys/Flashes present in the same day; the one who is living it for the first time, and the second who is re-living it…….?

I was actually wondering about this as well. Glad I'm not the only one. Now I'm trippin' balls.

 

[Spider-Ock]

The funniest thing in this Ep was that Cisco managed to construct highly powerful and advanced weapons specialised for each villain in a matter of hours using only basic materials. I mean, the dude made these in a friggin' house . He must be smarter than Tony Stark haha.

 

[Lencho01]

Am I the only one who thinks that the Reverse Flash, as they've presented him, is a villain that should only be sparingly used? I feel like he becomes a little less scary the more we see of him.

You feel he's been used too much already?

 

[Boy Scout]

You feel he's been used too much already?

No, not quite. I just think that Thawne should only suit up when he's confronting Barry or doing something REALLY important. Delivering Eiling to Grodd and killing that reporter don't meet the criteria.

I suppose it's more of an issue of using him effectively than sparingly.

 

[Lencho01]

No, not quite. I just think that Thawne should only suit up when he's confronting Barry or doing something REALLY important. Delivering Eiling to Grodd and killing that reporter don't meet the criteria.

I suppose it's more of an issue of using him effectively than sparingly.

I think it all works. It's like when he threatened Joe with the death of Iris. With Eiling/Grodd, I think that was just personal and was just a big "F you" to Eiling.

 

[Lilbaz]

Wait a minute, since Barry was running alongside his future/past self, shouldn't there then be 2 Barrys/Flashes present in the same day; the one who is living it for the first time, and the second who is re-living it…….?

It created a separate time line. Thus the other Barry disappeared as he continued on within his timeline. Is my take on it.

 

[Boy Scout]

I think it all works. It's like when he threatened Joe with the death of Iris. With Eiling/Grodd, I think that was just personal and was just a big "F you" to Eiling.

Threatening Joe worked because he didn't stop to chat.

The Eiling thing wasn't awful, but again, I don't think it was the best use of the character. It's not a huge problem for me by any stretch, but I thought it was worth mentioning anyway.

 

[Lencho01]

Threatening Joe worked because he didn't stop to chat.

The Eiling thing wasn't awful, but again, I don't think it was the best use of the character. It's not a huge problem for me by any stretch, but I thought it was worth mentioning anyway.

Well, he did need to find out what info the guy had and where he kept it. Joe had it call in front him.

Also, that scene was confirm that Wells is RF, no? Weren't there some people who still didn't fully believe he was RF (or that there was two of them)?

Either way, I think he's been used well. And it's really when he's out of the suit that's more scary to me. He's always been creepy (of course Joe's the only dude to notice t and now we know dude has no problems killing anyone who might mess with his plans. Thus, making him even more scary.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Am I the only one who thinks that the Reverse Flash, as they've presented him, is a villain that should only be sparingly used? I feel like he becomes a little less scary the more we see of him.

I think he's fine so far. I don't think any problem arises until he's defeated for the first time. Then, having him return might be problematic. It's the "Malcolm Merlyn" problem.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

I think he's fine so far. I don't think any problem arises until he's defeated for the first time. Then, having him return might be problematic. It's the "Malcolm Merlyn" problem.

Fortunately being a time traveler makes him returning a bit more appropriate, because we know Barry will encounter a younger version of Reverse Flash down the line. We've seen Barry's first encounter with Reverse Flash, but we haven't seen the Reverse Flash's first encounter with Barry. If they ever make Wally the Flash I would love to see them adapt the Return of Barry Allen storyline.

 

[just one thing]

It's still a leap from believing Wells entirely to "You were right about everything" is a bit much, if it had started Barry looking into Wells then sure, but he did a complete 180.

joe isn't saying wells is dodgy, he is saying wells may be dodgy, keeping his mind open. so for barry to say you where right about everything is to say you are right about a consideration not the acceptance of a fact.

 

[bjavor]

joe isn't saying wells is dodgy, he is saying wells may be dodgy, keeping his mind open. so for barry to say you where right about everything is to say you are right about a consideration not the acceptance of a fact.

Yes, the turnaround seems too quick when considred on its own. However I took it as another example of the "self correcting" nature of time. Previously Cisco discovered Well's secret, which has been changed. To compensate now Barry is the one who distrusts him. His quick turnaround was necessary to balance things out.

 

[bjavor]

I was hesitating for a long time about posting this as my opinion seems to be totally out of sync with the board's vast majority, but I'm simply curious: Why does (nearly) everybody think that Out of Time was a 10/10 but Rogue Time was only OK?

Because I have the total opposite opinion. Here's why:

Out of Time was certainly an interesting and important episode if for nothing else then for kicking the final story arc leading to the season's climax into gear. However, what really happened in that episode:

1. Well's identity as Eobard got confirmed. But to the viewer only. So far noone else knows. As for the viewers, I think the vast majority suspected this already.

2. They killed Cisco for pure shock value knowing that it will be undone immediately.

3. They had Barry and Iris kiss for pretty much the same reasons.

Apart from that the main villain arc with the Weather Wizard was pretty meh...
On top of that both of the last to points lead to problems. At least for me.

Let's get the Iris topic out of the way as I don't really care about it. It was probably only done to tease shippers, though I find it hard to believe that a Barry-Iris combination would have any shippers left at this point... Still, in that episode she clearly said she was thinking about Barry ever since his first confession. Now maybe Wells is right and it took the trauma of a life-and-death situation to get her to admit it and I don't have any problem with her reaction changing a bit in the alternate timeline. But categorically denying everything is a bit unrealistic.

Now for the more important point:

I like my villains to be a bit more nuanced and intelligent than the usual one-dimensional "because I hate you, and nothing on this world can change that" treatment they gave to poor Slade Wilson. (I'm still disappointed about that despite the rather good 2nd season, as I quite liked him as a good guy in season 1).

When Wells told Eiling that "he takes care of his own" I was ready (and hopeful) to believe that. When he gave up that piece from his suit to save Firestorm it looked like that was the case. He expressed in both episodes that he feels about Cisco like he is his son. I could have bought that too. IF he had found ANY other solution to Cisco finding out about him then killing him. He could have tried to convince him about his motives etc. Hell, he could have just left and disappeared without killing him. I'm sure after killing him he did not have any other choice either... Yet, he killed him, casting serious doubt about just how much he really cares. Compared to that his speach to Cisco in Rogue Time seemed much less credible, and his decision to prevent him from leaving too...

(I realize that what I just said above is just my personal wishful thinking regarding what I would have liked his character to turn out like and that the producers may have something different in mind, but it's disappointing none-the-less. And especially if it was purely done out of a whim just to shock people...)

Now for Rogue Time:

I found this to be the better episode of the two primarily because it builds so well on last weeks setup. The events pick up steam and due to the time travel element we got a chance to study the "little differences". It was both interesting to see how the time travel works on this show, like the often mentioned "inertia effect", but I also found it was a nice opportunity to "study" the various people's characters by observing the changes in their reactions and behaviour.

Besides, despite of the campy portrayal (or perhaps because of it) I quite enjoy Captain Cold. He was way more entertaining than the Weather Wizard. I just don't know why I keep thinking "Riddick" every time I see him, despite never have seen any of the Riddick movies...

 

[Mike Murdock]

I found Out of Time to be an extremely tense episode. The part where they're driving and the rain is over them was great. The stakes felt high. I didn't know it would be a reset until after the fact, not before. And when it was reset, I was intrigued because Barry was back in time, which raised interesting story potentials.

Rogue Time just felt painfully awkward at times. Things that had built for awhile and addressed meaningfully (figuring out the Harrison Wells mystery) were wasted by Barry's actions. On top of that, the thrilling fight with the Weather Wizard was resolved anticlimactically. In addition to being awkward (I had to mute the Barry/Iris scene), it was also very slow.

That being said, I really enjoy Captain Cold on this show, so I thought the scene with him and Barry was quite good.

 

[spider-neil]

This episode was a major step down from last week.
Stupid moments include the gold gun. The heat gun heats the air, the cold gun freezes the air and the gold gun...? Why do you even need to rob banks if you have a gun that spits out gold.

Also this week Iris was out and out unlikeable. I normally like Iris and I do want her and Barry to eventually hook up but this week she was a b****.

Last week was 10/10 - best Flash episode to date
The week was 6/10 - possibly the worst Flash episode to date

 

[Frodo]

"Out of Time" was basically a season finale, which set the bar high, answered basically most of the major questions that otherwise would have been answered in a mid season or season finale, left several cliffhangers, and brought even the dreadful romance story to a head. However ,Barry basically hit reset Rouge time episode paled by comparison.

The romance was basically re-wound with Linda kinda taking the breakup well, Iris suddenly being clueless to her feelings(yes I know the explanation the show gave), Barry stops the nearly un-stoppable Weather Wizard pretty easily, Cisco and his family taking center stage which wasn't all that interesting anyway, The rogues returning but the writers resolving it in a lazy way, Wells killing Mason who didn't have that great a role to begin with, resolving the Barry/Iris/Eddie stuff with Catelin's three's company like explanation( gotta be a certain age to get that one) and Barry now suddenly agreeing with Joe 100% about Wells.

They kinda peaked too soon with Out of Time for a midseason episode imo. I mean the ideas in Out of Time were great and the time travel aspect is cool but I think they may have been better off saving that script and re-working it for a season finale . Everything in this season seemed to build up to Out of time especially given that the episode ties in perfectly with the pilot with its resolution of the Wells storyline and featuring the brother of the villain from the pilot. They may have just pulled the trigger too soon imo. Arrow has had similar problems this season as well, and alot of the problems in both shows seem to mirror each other. The finale could still be great but I think that they maybe should have held back on Out of Time a bit longer.