The Flash The Flash Episode 1x15 - Out of Time

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I feel like the biggest deviation for the comics is that Wells didn't kill to make Barry suffer. I think he wanted to kill Barry but saw that it would hurt his chances of returning back home.

Maybe, since this is a CW show, there was a fallout between the Thawne family and the Allen family, and it started with Eddie losing Iris to Barry, and that spiraled to a long list of tragedies and mishaps for the Thawne lineage, so Eobard finds a way to go back to kill Barry, only to discover that it messed things up even more, so he leaves it alone but is stuck here and realizes he needs Barry to get back home.

I'm just grasping at straws here, but I'm curious to see why Flash's disappearance in 2025 is so important too.

It doesn't seem like you read Flash comic books but consequently that's exactly what happens in the comic book lore. The Allens and the Thawnes are at odds for generations until Meloni Thawne falls in love with Don Allen (son of Barry and Iris) in the 30th century and unites the bloodlines by giving birth to Bart Allen.

The moment they revealed Iris was dating Eddie I had always assumed that Iris would be the catalyst that would lead to Eddie resenting Barry and serve as the origin of the famous Allen/Thawne feud in this incarnation of The Flash.

I think Flash's disappearance is only important because it lets Eobard Thawne know that his particular timeline is still pretty much intact. One could assume Barry always disappeared during Crisis and when Eobard first became his arch nemesis it was when he traveled to a period before Barry's Crisis sacrifice like in the comic books.
 
This episode!:eek:


Cisco.:csad:
Troy-Community-Emotions.gif


That scene was incredibly sad. The way he was crying and knowing he was going to get killed. Damn! This is the best show on television IMO.

I'm not really familiar with Flash comics, so does Barry now have the speed force since he broke the time barrier?

agreed, if Cisco cries, makes it even more sad the fact that he knew he was going to get killed, i wonder if they show what happens in this episode´s timeline after Barry dissapears...
 
It doesn't seem like you read Flash comic books but consequently that's exactly what happens in the comic book lore. The Allens and the Thawnes are at odds for generations until Meloni Thawne falls in love with Don Allen (son of Barry and Iris) in the 30th century and unites the bloodlines by giving birth to Bart Allen.

The moment they revealed Iris was dating Eddie I had always assumed that Iris would be the catalyst that would lead to Eddie resenting Barry and serve as the origin of the famous Allen/Thawne feud in this incarnation of The Flash.

I think Flash's disappearance is only important because it lets Eobard Thawne know that his particular timeline is still pretty much intact. One could assume Barry always disappeared during Crisis and when Eobard first became his arch nemesis it was when he traveled to a period before Barry's Crisis sacrifice like in the comic books.
Yeah, this show has pretty much been my only exposure to the character. But what I had meant was the Eddie/Barry fight for Iris would be the cause of the family feud since it's the type of drama that shows on the CW need to follow. The CW needs its share of relationship angst and pitting Eddie against Barry directly feeds that need, while also providing the additional drama of something related to the comics that can work in this version.

But I'm expecting this breakup, or the way it happens, to lead Eddie on a downward spiral, maybe not to the point where he suits up as a villain, because that would just make him the Flash version of Eddie Brock/Venom. But I think this really serves as a turning point for him as a character and person and it creates the rift that leads to the family feud. Really sucks though because Eddie was becoming such a likeable character.
 
I have to agree, it felt like the producers wanted a cheap excuse to tell and do a bunch of things then reverse everything so it's not part of the actual plotline. It's amateurish writing at it's worst. You expect this kind of lazy writing to happen 2 or 3 seasons into a series not so soon. First episode of the series I was disappointed with. I gave it a 3 and thinking about it now I might be to generous.
Says the person whose screen name is SV fan. Oh the irony.
 
Says the person whose screen name is SV fan. Oh the irony.

I know right? I dunno why he is even still watching this show if he hated the very first episode. I think he likes to keep watching it just to keep coming on here to complain about it. Maybe he should just go back and watch his Smallville.
 
But for us (the audience), there's a lot that ISN'T going to be turned back or reversed since what we learned tonight will remain true, despite the fact that Barry will likely rectify several things. The story still advanced tonight, no matter which way you look at it.

This is true, and Barry still has to live with the knowledge, of some of what happened. Barry doesn't know everything yet.
 
you know that whole Cisco/Wells scene was so intense with him crying and &*(, I was kinda waiting for him to clinch his fists and they start Vibrating and then for him to say" TAKE THIS YOU SICK SON OF A&*()
BOOYAHHHHH!! I AM VIBE!!

hahah and this is is from someone who didnt want him to get powers since i like him just the way he is!( and hated Vibe in the comics!)
What is this show doing to me!? you know you dig a show when you aint sure whats going to happen next!:cwink:
 
The scene would've carried more weight if Valdes was a more capable dramatic actor. He's much better at comedy (IMO).
 
Yeah I was genuinely shocked by his range. Didn't know he had it in him. He sold betrayed yet afraid very well. Apparently the tears were genuine and real too. Kreisberg said that Cavanagh and Valdes came up with the idea that as soon as Cisco knew Wells was in the room he knew his number was up. Which helped a lot with selling the emotions. It wasn't even written that way. It was all on the actors. Those guys are freaking pros.
 
“There’s a genuine affection between them that’s not fake. When Thawne is in the time, he’s wholly invested. He cares about Cisco and is truly impressed by Cisco from the very beginning when the two of them meet. He is on his side,” Cavanagh said of the heart-wrenching scene.

“When he says that line, ‘You’ve shown me what it’s like to have a son,’ he’s not saying it idly. He means it. At the same time, guy’s got to get home.”

For the most part Eobard “is not himself an evil man,” Kreisberg defended. “There isn’t anything he didn’t say to Cisco that isn’t the truth. He’s sorry he found out and he’s sorry it has to happen. There’s a scene in episode 16 which really mirrors that.”

What’s more amazing is that Cisco’s tears during Wells’ speech weren’t scripted. “Tom and Carlos [Valdes] worked out that the minute Tom walks into the room, [Cisco] knows he’s going to die,” Kreisberg revealed. “I get chills thinking about it and it wasn’t something we intended, it was something they brought to it.”

Though Cisco doesn’t have an alter ego yet, Kreisberg revealed that they address Wells killing a future Justice League member in episode 22. “There’s a great line that speaks to that,” he hinted. “Wells begins to impart some tidbits about a certain character’s future possibilities.”

Even so, it’s unclear whether Cisco’s suspicions of Wells reach the same levels in the do-over. Part of the journey is seeing “how certain events occur that prevent Cisco from following along the same trajectory.”
 
I loved it. Best ep of the series so far. But not a 10.

1) Iris is annoying. Can't stand when characters flipflop like that.

2) Not usually a fan of alterating the timeline on shows. Always saw it as a pathetic crutch to erase incredible things that the audience has been waiting for and will probably have to wait years down the road for it to come to pass and stick. The only thing that saved it is the audience is in on Wells being pure evil but everyone around Wells doesn't know for sure. That is facinating. He was always the best character on the show but now it is even beyond that.

3) Bad guy of the week was an afterthought.
 
I want some actual PLOT DEVELOPMENT, and we got it in spades this episode. So to immediately undo it, only to rehash the same "reveals" is not at all appealing. It's like when Smallville would do a big "reveal," only to then undo it and then drag out the ACTUAL reveal to a painful degree. Also I'm just tired of Iris being the ONLY one who DOESN'T know. It adds nothing of value to the show, there's not good reason for it (either in-universe or without).
 
Why would anyone suspect Wells of being the Reverse Flash?

It's not about them suspecting him of being RF specifically. It's just that he's said/done shady crap that should make them more suspicious of him/his motives in general. Hell he admitted to being reckless, bordering on criminal negligence, with the PA not too long ago. And apparently that made them respect him MORE, which is really dumb. It's like the writers randomly pulled Joe's name out of a hat and went "ok, you get to be the suspicious of Wells character."
 
How does it add nothing of value to the show when we are now for instance much more informed about Harrison Wells and his antics?

We also got to see just how deep Cisco and Wells relationship truly is which helps sell it further for greater resonance and got more insight into the functions of Eddie.
 
I thought he did a great job. Easily the most powerful scene in thus series so far.

I disagree. I didn't think there was anything impressive about the performance he gave. Cavanagh carried the scene.

Yeah I was genuinely shocked by his range.

Well, that's the thing: I don't think he has range.

Kreisberg said that Cavanagh and Valdes came up with the idea that as soon as Cisco knew Wells was in the room he knew his number was up. Which helped a lot with selling the emotions. It wasn't even written that way. It was all on the actors. Those guys are freaking pros.

And that's seriously great, but if you can't sell it, then it doesn't mean anything.

For what it's worth, I don't think Valdes is a terrible actor or anything like that. I just think he's naturally better at comedy.
 
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A theory: The Flash CW show has been showing us a rebooted timeline. The original timeline matches the comics. Barry Allen, a CSI, is struck by lightning and becomes The Flash. He fights villains...marries Iris...all the comic stuff happened.
Then in the future Eobard goes back in time to kill Barry but kills his mom instead. This creates a divergent timeline. Barry's dad is blamed and put in jail...Barry moves in with Joe and him and Iris become like brother and sister...Eobard is stuck in the past and needs Barry to become the Flash to generate the speed force...so he creates the particle accelerator and triggers the accident that created The Flash earlier than it was supposed to.

Word. I dig it. That's one way to settle fans in the end...though of course the show is about appealing to everyone.

:word:
 
If Iris could go back in time, I would have her form a league with Laurel from "Season 2" and Barbara from "Gotham".

They could call themselves: "The Misery that loves Company"

Damn...I couldn't agree more
 
I want some actual PLOT DEVELOPMENT, and we got it in spades this episode. So to immediately undo it, only to rehash the same "reveals" is not at all appealing. It's like when Smallville would do a big "reveal," only to then undo it and then drag out the ACTUAL reveal to a painful degree. Also I'm just tired of Iris being the ONLY one who DOESN'T know. It adds nothing of value to the show, there's not good reason for it (either in-universe or without).

Having the audience be completely aware of something in the story, but the characters aren't aware of it is called dramatic irony. It's a plot device that been used by writers for a very long time.
 
The after image Barry saw of himself reminds me of that moment when Batman sees Barry's future image from the future in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Iris's coat reminded me a bit of this.
2616978-64.jpg

The end run reminded me of this
[YT]vgraIqIsq74[/YT]
 
I want some actual PLOT DEVELOPMENT, and we got it in spades this episode. So to immediately undo it, only to rehash the same "reveals" is not at all appealing. It's like when Smallville would do a big "reveal," only to then undo it and then drag out the ACTUAL reveal to a painful degree. Also I'm just tired of Iris being the ONLY one who DOESN'T know. It adds nothing of value to the show, there's not good reason for it (either in-universe or without).

What are you even talking about? Just because certain events of last night's episode will technically be reversed and erased (Iris learning Barry's secret, Cisco's death, Caitlin seeing Wells disappear, the police captain's major injury), that doesn't mean that the plot hasn't developed further. In fact, the plot actually lurched forward in a major way for our main character and for us as viewers.

- Barry learned how Iris truly feels about him, which he will not have magically forgotten. That means no more complaining to Joe about how things are weird between them or that his confession of his feelings towards her was not mutual

- We've seen how the relationship between Barry and Iris is starting to get to Eddie, which has furthers the "ticking time bomb" element of Eddie turning on Barry and Iris somehow

- Barry is starting to questions Wells' motives and capabilities, based on what Iris told him about the investigation she and Mason Bridge have begun

- Mason told Barry that he has incriminating evidence about Wells in his computer, which only added to the doubts Barry was already having and increases the likelihood of the truth about Harrison Wells coming to light sooner than later (for all the major players)

- We now know the true identity of Wells - Eobard Thawne, a man trapped in this time and desperate to get back to his own

- Eobard Thawne finally described his endgame and confirmed what most suspected -- that he is pushing Barry to develop his powers because The Flash's speed is the key to Thawne returning home

- It was confirmed that Eddie Thawne is a descendant of Eobard's, which fuels the fire of what Eddie will eventually become

- Previously, we'd seen Wells go through great lengths to protect Barry's life and his secret identity, even going as far as murdering people to do so. Many had wondered whether or not Wells was truly evil or that his true intentions were to help Barry. We now know that Wells is only using Barry as a means to an end, he had actually intended to kill Barry instead of Nora, and that he is willing to kill even his closest allies (like Cisco) to protect his own secret and make sure his endgame is completed

- Everything about the Wells/Thawne reveal enhances the "ticking time bomb" element of when EVERYONE will discover these secrets, and how Earth-shattering it will be for the core characters on this show

And finally, the biggest reveal of all is that BARRY ****ING TRAVELED BACK IN TIME (much sooner than he ever thought he would), an event that Team Flash will obviously learn about when Barry tells them what happened. This changes the status quo of the ENTIRE series now that Barry and his allies will know he has this ability, he will most likely do it again, and will almost certainly attempt to use this ability to save Nora Allen -- which will lead to another Earth-shattering event for this series.

We're in the first season of this show and none of the reveals or imminent events have been dragged out to a painful degree. It's called "build-up". You're comparing this first season of a show to Smallville, which dragged out reveals and status-quo changes for multiple seasons. There are not many episodes left of this season of The Flash. We KNOW that the truth about Wells will be revealed to everyone before season's end, which will be crazy, and if you're really that pissed that Iris won't remember or know that Barry is The Flash still, you should relax but it will happen for real sooner or later.

This episode was cool because it showed us the ramifications of certain events, gave us new information, and confirmed our suspicions about certain things...without these things actually happening yet.
 
We're in the first season of this show and none of the reveals or imminent events have been dragged out to a painful degree. It's called "build-up". You're comparing this first season of a show to Smallville, which dragged out reveals and status-quo changes for multiple seasons. There are not many episodes left of this season of The Flash. We KNOW that the truth about Wells will be revealed to everyone before season's end, which will be crazy, and if you're really that pissed that Iris won't remember or know that Barry is The Flash still, you should relax but it will happen for real sooner or later.

This episode was cool because it showed us the ramifications of certain events, gave us new information, and confirmed our suspicions about certain things...without these things actually happening yet.

Preach ! The show is only on episode 15, and its got a couple of well-developed plot-lines already. I was expecting Flash to be a cheesy show, and yes the Rogues are a bit cheesy and OTT, but what I'm getting is just awesome, because the writers have taken their time in building things up.

I think the gradual reveal of the RF has been a masterstroke, if they waited until the very end of the season to do the reveal I think we'd feel a bit ripped off ( kind of like a lame version of an M Night Shyamalan twist), but the gradual reveal has kept us guessing (until now) and feeding us just enough clues to keep coming back for more.
I watch the show JUST to find out what's going on with the Wells/RF plot.

It is mega-build up ! Soon the RF plot, the death of Nora Allen and the Barry/Iris/Eddie triangle will all collide. If the writers keep taking the care they have so far, it will have an utterly epic resolution.
 
To those complaining about them "undoing" the plot developments, y'all do realize the only reason that stuff all happened this week was because they knew it would be undone?
 

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