The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 5

[Tempest]

"Don't be a meta and do wrong, or else, we will decide that you are evil in your heart, and jail you in worse conditions than any American prison, indefinitely. Haha."

The best we can do is be compassionate to other humans instead of trying to dehumanize them into evil monsters when they screw up. The best we can do is rehabilitate and reconstruct people who have made mistakes. If Team Flash had done so with Peek A Boo, they actually wouldn't have several of the problems they have right now. By settling for the easy option of treating these people as monsters instead of people, Team Flash has made life for themselves, their illegal inhumanely kept prisoners, and everyone in Central City more difficult. If they had treated Firestorm the same way they did Peek-A-Boo they'd probably all be dead, or worse. That's what happens when you turn off compassion for "practicality."

The best we can do is let people be judged by a jury of their peers. The best we can do is hand out sentences that are based on the crime, and not on our speculative fears of what people *might* do in the future. Even in Minority Report, that ish is evil. And that's what so scary about treating criminals as inhuman, we become evil, we become monsters, and that's what's really scary.

First of all, we know how the government is handling the meta humans right now. General Eiling is quietly hunting them down to experiment on, or to kill them if they prove to be 'uncooperative'. If they're too dangerous, he's outright going to kill them.

Even though they aren't getting a trial by their peers, the metas are being housed quite possibly where they will be the safest. Away from people they can victimize, but also where the government can't reach them. At least for now.

 

[Herolee10]

I keep wondering at times on what this show could deliver if they had a budget equivalent to the one that Agents of SHIELD has. The things that this show has already been able to pull off with their current budget has been pretty impressive as it is.

 

[coluanprime]

Honestly, I never really felt the budget in this show. The only thing I can really remember not looking perfect is the supersonic punch.

 

[Solid_Snake]

what if in the end of finale berry will be in different timeline, with everything happened till date erased. where no one knows who flash is

 

[Solid_Snake]

I don't think your theory is very credible. The flash isn't even a match for RF right now so why would he need another RF to help him? Plus killing the Barry would only leave the speedforce where is is right now. RF can't siphon the speedforce from everyone. All speedsters siphon the speedforce from Barry(the original creator of the speedforce). Depending on how they want to use RF here he could be using the negative speedforce which still is only as strong as the positive speedforce.

How many time have I said speedforce haha.

I think RF isnt waitng for future RF to help him with flash, all he care about is going home. I think he will try to siphon both speedster's speedforce at the end . Remember he has used every(mostly) meta human for his own agenda, in episode 7 he collected the blood sample of farooq(one who sucked off berry's speedforce) so he can understand his ability, there is a strong chance he will use farooq's speedforce siphoning ability in finale.

 

[gugumugats]

Legends of Tomorrow:

Spoiler

With the title, summary and line-up of The CW’s newest TV installment of the DC universe just announced, the heroes (and villains) of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow will actually arrive sooner than you think! Hawkgirl, Rip Hunter and more will make their team debut on May 19th during The Flash season one finale.

 

[Headliner]

Honestly I don't see the spinoff lasting longer than 2 seasons. If they make it to season 2 I'll be surprised.

 

[Death916]

Thats crazy, first im hearing of this. I thought it was just going to have arrow characters in the finale. This should be good.

Legends of Tomorrow:

 

[Bathead]

Looking forward to Hawkgirl. Let's hope they do a better job on the wings than they did with Hawkman in Smallville.

 

[famicommander]

Literally every aspect of Flash is orders of magnitude better than any aspect of Smallville. They couldn't do the costumes worse than that show if they were trying to.

 

[famicommander]

Honestly I don't see the spinoff lasting longer than 2 seasons. If they make it to season 2 I'll be surprised.

If people watch it then the CW will keep renewing it. Since daylight savings time went into effect Flash, Arrow, and iZombie are the three highest rated shows on the network.

There's no way Legends gets fewer than four seasons unless it totally bombs.

 

[Lord Valumart]

It sounds like an interesting show. But it also sounds like they're going into making it with a definite plan for the first series. I'd assume that this would, if it gets a seconds series, result in a bit of a mishmash of stuff.

I can also see this show as being a sort of revolving team. Allowing many new characters to turn up and show us why they don't suck.

 

[DrCosmic]

I think you are all thinking about this a little too much. It's a tv show... If you question the conditions of the jail cells you should be questioning everything else that doesn't make sense in the show.
And just because we already went there. I'd rather be locked in a room by myself and served take out food than be in an actual prison. Rape, Murder, drug abuse are just a few of the things messed up with the prisons all over the world. But what can you expect with putting a bunch of criminals in a building together and not letting them leave?
Just because so many fans have addressed the issue of food, bathroom etc.. I'm sure they will make a reference to the cells and how they are actually being treated quite decently.
I mean come on. Take out food from where ever you want all the time sure beats a slop of goo they get in prison

If we're going to call it silly and ridiculous let's do that. But when you start to give explanations, like unilaterally deciding to hold a person prisoner indefinitely with no legal authorization, and you try to come up with some reason, any reason, why that's okay "We feed our kidnapping victims, and they'd hurt people otherwise, so it's all good." Then I have to point out that there is no sufficient explanation. It's only okay because it's a tv show. That's really the only defense for the madness of their prison.

According to some of the extra content, Cisco is pretty chummy with the prisoners, although we haven't seen that in the show.

Which is funny... but c'mon guys, this is ludicrous. If you put me in a little box for days on end, there's simply no way we're going to be friends. I want my lawyer, I want my phone call, I want to talk to a counselor... who gives you the right to put me in a box smaller than a normal prison cell? Why is there a dead guy in the box next to me. But hey, maybe these guys are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

First of all, we know how the government is handling the meta humans right now. General Eiling is quietly hunting them down to experiment on, or to kill them if they prove to be 'uncooperative'. If they're too dangerous, he's outright going to kill them.

Even though they aren't getting a trial by their peers, the metas are being housed quite possibly where they will be the safest. Away from people they can victimize, but also where the government can't reach them. At least for now.

Lesser of two evils doesn't make it not evil. Also, the show doesn't pitch it that way. Also, they don't have the right to tell other adults where they'll be safest, or to conclude that other people will victimize others in the future. They've shown they're inconsistent and unjust when they let Firestorm go. Meaning you can be a metahuman and kill people, and we won't even think about imprisoning you, instead we'll work to help you as long as you're one of our friends. Peek A Boo didn't even kill anybody, neither did the 'dangerous criminal' she let loose. Anything she does because they put her in with a bunch of real criminals is on them.

A better thought through more socially responsible and generally less dumb angle on the metahuman prison would be having it Wells idea and reveal it was always his plan to have the metahumans become his army as needed, thus you have something that's dumb and evil be revealed to be very smart and acknowledge that it is wrong.

A more moral idea overall would be making the police/justice system figuring out metahuman justice part of story. An easy solution would be to put the justice system in charge of justice and have them simply contract Star Labs for containment. This has the added bonus of making Barry's CSI even more relevant in dealing with the bad guys.

Or we can ignore a dumb part of the show because we love the show, and we don't worry about all the details as long as the overall presentation is good.

 

[Bathead]

I still think there's more to those cells than we've seen so far.

 

[Travesty]

Why do you care so much about the cells?

 

[Bathead]

Who me? I don't really "care" per se, I just think the criticism about the cells is unwarranted at this point.
Having said that, if they never go beyond what they are doing now, then the criticism will be valid.
I'm pretty sure one of the producers did say that at some point, they will deal with the issue, did they not?

 

[ravn0s]

they're most likely not going to be able to use the cells after the next episode.

 

[Tempest]

If we're going to call it silly and ridiculous let's do that. But when you start to give explanations, like unilaterally deciding to hold a person prisoner indefinitely with no legal authorization, and you try to come up with some reason, any reason, why that's okay "We feed our kidnapping victims, and they'd hurt people otherwise, so it's all good." Then I have to point out that there is no sufficient explanation. It's only okay because it's a tv show. That's really the only defense for the madness of their prison.



Which is funny... but c'mon guys, this is ludicrous. If you put me in a little box for days on end, there's simply no way we're going to be friends. I want my lawyer, I want my phone call, I want to talk to a counselor... who gives you the right to put me in a box smaller than a normal prison cell? Why is there a dead guy in the box next to me. But hey, maybe these guys are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.



Lesser of two evils doesn't make it not evil. Also, the show doesn't pitch it that way. Also, they don't have the right to tell other adults where they'll be safest, or to conclude that other people will victimize others in the future. They've shown they're inconsistent and unjust when they let Firestorm go. Meaning you can be a metahuman and kill people, and we won't even think about imprisoning you, instead we'll work to help you as long as you're one of our friends. Peek A Boo didn't even kill anybody, neither did the 'dangerous criminal' she let loose. Anything she does because they put her in with a bunch of real criminals is on them.

A better thought through more socially responsible and generally less dumb angle on the metahuman prison would be having it Wells idea and reveal it was always his plan to have the metahumans become his army as needed, thus you have something that's dumb and evil be revealed to be very smart and acknowledge that it is wrong.

A more moral idea overall would be making the police/justice system figuring out metahuman justice part of story. An easy solution would be to put the justice system in charge of justice and have them simply contract Star Labs for containment. This has the added bonus of making Barry's CSI even more relevant in dealing with the bad guys.

Or we can ignore a dumb part of the show because we love the show, and we don't worry about all the details as long as the overall presentation is good.

I'm not saying that what the team is doing is correct. It's not legal, and it's not entirely fair to the metas. On the other hand, the government (not all of the government, but some of it) knows that the metas are being held at S.T.A.R. Labs, and don't seem to care. That's not a justification. What my point is, is that the government is not necessarily going to help the metas. The justice system only works when the government is working with it, not against it. I don't think the metas would get fair treatment from the government. I think they would be shuttled off to a secret facility for 'testing', and then buried in a nameless grave once their usefulness ran out.

Barry and his team have to weigh the needs of their prisoners against what is safest and best for the metas potential victims. Not enviable, but that's the weird position that they're in.

I do agree the show should have addressed this better. Honestly, they wasted so much time on the romantic subplots, which could have been put aside until season two, instead of focusing on some of the more interesting and important details.

 

[Orb]

For the love of GOD! This is only a tv show.....

 

[metaphysician]

*blink* Who did Firestorm kill?

 

[Tempest]

*blink* Who did Firestorm kill?

He accidentally killed a professor. But I will say that when Blackout first attacked them, Barry wanted to try to help him. Same with Plastique. They haven't just decided that all metas are bad...or at least Barry hasn't. He wants to help the ones he can.

 

[Mariah]

He accidentally killed a professor. But I will say that when Blackout first attacked them, Barry wanted to try to help him. Same with Plastique. They haven't just decided that all metas are bad...or at least Barry hasn't. He wants to help the ones he can.

Bette/Plastique had the best potential to join team flash. She reminded me of Gambit. Shame they killed her off when she possibly could have helped Barry. I wrote a fanfic on it actually.

 

[batdude]

If people watch it then the CW will keep renewing it. Since daylight savings time went into effect Flash, Arrow, and iZombie are the three highest rated shows on the network.

There's no way Legends gets fewer than four seasons unless it totally bombs.

If this show results in more Firestorm appearances and maybe Hawkman I'm all for it, but really? it sounds like a DC version of Defenders with a weird mix of characters.

 

[Brian Braddock]

For the love of GOD! This is only a tv show.....

Totally agree. All a bit of a much ado about nothing IMO.

 

[Tempest]

Totally agree. All a bit of a much ado about nothing IMO.

Hey, fictional characters have feelings and rights, you know.

But seriously, the topic is an important one. The fictional stories we watch and read reflect society, and our views on the world. It is disturbing to watch Barry and his team toss people into a prison without the chance for a trial, and honestly, it's a little weird to watch. Barry has a connection with law enforcement, plus his dad is in prison unjustly. You would think that he would have shown a little more interest in the bare-bones existence the metas have.

Honestly, a few scenes of the team interacting with the metas in their prison cells (besides the ones where they snarl at each other) would have been welcome, interesting, and important for the viewers.