The Flash The Flash Season 1 Episode 17 "Tricksters"

[Sterling Archer]

One thing that bugs me. They don't need evidence on Wells. They know he did it. He's not going to normal prison, if anything they would lock him up underneath Star Labs. So why not make Wells a special cup of tea. Wait for him to pass out then put him in the cell. Then ask him questions?

Because he would just phase out and kill them?

 

[Lilbaz]

Because he would just phase out and kill them?

Possibly of Gideon would let him out. But would they know that? It does stop people teleporting.

 

[haephestus]

Another awesome episode!

But, I had a few minor quibbles. Why did Barry and Joe tell Eddie the truth about The Flash and all the related drama but not Iris? That didn't make any sense to me. Instead of telling Eddie the truth so that they can all band together to manipulate and deceive Iris, surely it would have been better to simply tell Iris the truth? Or does Barry and/or Joe think that Iris is so "dedicated" to her new career as a journalist that she would reveal The Flash's identity or investigate Harrison Wells further?

And surely, lying to Iris about Mason's death isn't necessarily going to protect her. Iris knew that Mason was working on a story about Harrison Wells and she was supposedly assisting him. Wouldn't she continue working on that story, even if she has to start over from scratch? The whole thing just didn't make sense to me and their continued insistence on not revealing the truth to Iris in the interest of supposedly "protecting" her is getting tiresome.

And what exactly are Barry and Joe planning on doing IF by some bizarre chance they are somehow able to convince the police department and whatever judicial authorities that Harrison Wells killed Barry's mother? Do they really think that Wells could be confined in an ordinary prison? Surely they understand that they won't be able to free Barry's dad through the ordinary justice system? So, why doesn't Barry just free his father from jail and let him live "off the grid". Or Joe could surely procure him a new identity. Or they could come up with a way to fake his death, then give him a haircut, some glasses and let him live something of a life in Central City (if necessary). Really, Barry's dad could be relocated almost anywhere in the US and Barry would still be able to visit him whenever he wanted. Barry and Joe seem to be insistent that they'll somehow be able to publicly exonerate Henry, even though there appears to be no plausible way for that to happen.

The Tricksters were decent. I have to admit, I was getting a WAY different vibe between the two Tricksters (especially from the younger one) than father and son! I thought that they were more like May-December lovers in their first shared scene together.

And I'm now even more interested to learn the truth about Thawne. I wonder how closely they will follow his comic book origins? It seems that Thawne was already really unstable in the future (although somehow The Flash was also in the future, since they both came back from the future into Barry's past). And I really want to know his motivation for returning to the future. Does Thawne have a lover or family in the future he is trying to return to? Did his genetic tampering somehow make him believe that Wells' wife Tess Morgan is waiting for him in the future? Or does he just plan to rule the world in the future?

 

[Death916]

Something my gf and I were discussing. What does future flash do after saving his young self when Nora is killed. They show reverse flash run off and lose his powers. Whats is Grown-future flash doing at this time? Is the timeline changed right when his mom dies so he disappears or what?

 

[Quasimod0]

This was a legit 10/10 for me. I looooved Mark Hamill as the Joker...I mean the Trickster. And all the Wells stuff was awesome. Not to mention the phasing through walls!

 

[Herolee10]

I'm kind of surprised to see that no one else seems to have had any qualms with the quality of the CGI used for the fight between Future Barry and Reverse Flash in Barry's house.

 

[Herolee10]

Something my gf and I were discussing. What does future flash do after saving his young self when Nora is killed. They show reverse flash run off and lose his powers. Whats is Grown-future flash doing at this time? Is the timeline changed right when his mom dies so he disappears or what?

I think that version of Barry disappeared, which is probably why it reads that the Flash is missing in the future news article that Wells keeps pulling up every now and then.

 

[Paradox1]

Something my gf and I were discussing. What does future flash do after saving his young self when Nora is killed. They show reverse flash run off and lose his powers. Whats is Grown-future flash doing at this time? Is the timeline changed right when his mom dies so he disappears or what?

That depends on the rules of Time Travel they use. Back to the Future rules he's disappeared because his reality is now gone.

 

[Herolee10]

Depending on how you look at things, I've always seen the changes in time travel as being a "form" of Death.

Take "Days of Future Past" as an example. Even though Wolverine was sent into the past to change the outcome of the apocalyptic future that everyone else was living, the moment Wolverine ended up resetting things.... ALL of the characters that we had seen grow and develop in the previous X-Men films ceased to exist. All of the memories and experiences that they had undergone in life was completely gone. Even with characters like Professor X, Magneto, and Kitty; while they weren't killed off by the Sentinels, they pretty much "died" as their existences were wiped off from the slate in order to make room for "new" versions of them.

So in a sense, the Barry from the "original timeline".... unless proven otherwise, it's like that version of Barry and whatever he experienced in his timeline, ceased to exist, along with all of the characters from that time period as well.

 

[bjavor]

On the subject of Barry's father. I was wondering...

He now served at least 15 years in prison. Not sure what the average sentences are for first time offenders, but shouldn't he be able to get out soon on good behaviour anyway?

 

[Mike Murdock]

No. While it's possible he could get parole (parole has been abolished in the majority of states, but this happened probably before that point), they generally don't give parole for people convicted of murder. In addition, the average sentence (OK, typical sentence) for first degree murder is life in prison. There is no good behavior that cuts down on that.

ETA: I just checked what Virginia would be, since it's easy for me to look up. First degree murder where a weapon was used creates an average recommended sentence of 30 years. You have to serve at least 85% so, with good behavior credit, that comes out to a sentence of 26 years.

 

[The Shape]

I'm kind of surprised to see that no one else seems to have had any qualms with the quality of the CGI used for the fight between Future Barry and Reverse Flash in Barry's house.

That's because I think we've all accepted by now that they're doing the best they can with the time/budget they have, and taking that into account, it was still pretty good.

 

[Gu3ree]

Seconded on the fx. Still, problem: In the fight, sometimes I'm confused which Flash is Barry and which is Eobard. The red eyes every milo second or so makes me forget. Both of them are in the dark and Barry's suit is so effing dark that it gets confusing. Plus Flash's lightening streak color is yellow and Reverse-Flash's lightning streak color is red. When Reverse-Flash is speeding outside from Barry's house, I'm trying to make out which one it is as it's so dark because it's night-time but the speed blur and lightening streaks are red, yet I can't make out the color of the suit, then I just think red.

I get they're trying to establish the differences. It's an interesting concept. The whole reverse thing but the FX team should really consider showing Flash's red blur along with the yellow streaks. Same should go for the Reverse-Flash. Yellow blur with lightning streaks.

Additonally, make Barry's suit brighter for crying out loud already.

So the last two episodes that aired before this, I have been more interested in finding out how the character Wells will play out and how they will all find out. Not so into the goofy villians.

As Trickster didn't have anything to do with that plot. Still I have to say I did enjoy the Tricksters plot. Have to admit that was the greatest trick of all time.

Still bothered again by the darkness of Barry's suit.

That and also, Eddie knowing. I didn't mind Barry letting his father know but now, every character on the show except Iris knows Barry is the Flash. What's next after Iris finds out?

Iris discovers Eddie is hiding it from her. A conflict happens because Barry and Eddie have feelings for Iris and are working together to find Barry's mother's killer. Eddie finds out Barry is in love with Iris which starts a huge problem, or Eddie decides to ask Iris to marry him, Barry finds out beforehand which will drive him nuts.

I want a scene where Barry decides to tell Joe the truth where he went back in time, and Iris told Barry she did have feelings for him. As Barry is starting to be suspicious of Wells anyways, he should go ahead and tell Joe.

This mystery is impossible to figure out. I mean Harrison Wells is another person which Eobard became. That's unbeatable. I love the twist how Barry went back in time to stop Eobard from killing his mother but discovering that the Reverse-Flash underneath is a different guy--I didn't see that coming. At first I didn't like that twist. Still, it was interesting.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I'm kind of surprised to see that no one else seems to have had any qualms with the quality of the CGI used for the fight between Future Barry and Reverse Flash in Barry's house.

It was freaking cool for a tv show budget.

 

[The Caped Knight]

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Very nice ep, one of the best so far.
I didn't care much for Marc Hamil/Trickster's story but it was still cool to see him in the role again ( I followed Flash show in the 90' ).

Best part was of course was Wells flashbacks and the twist ( which reminded me of an ep of Fringe with the shape shifters who also used a device to take the appearance of their victims ).
Barry noticed that Wells knows the feeling of superspeed thus he is RF but he makes no comment about Wells mentioning the Speed Force ? ( I don't remember the term being used previously ).

Random thought : I found a bit cheap the RF speed buzz sound each time the unmasked character appeared in the flashback as if the audience couldn't tell he was him.

 

[Batmannerism]

No. While it's possible he could get parole (parole has been abolished in the majority of states, but this happened probably before that point), they generally don't give parole for people convicted of murder. In addition, the average sentence (OK, typical sentence) for first degree murder is life in prison. There is no good behavior that cuts down on that.

ETA: I just checked what Virginia would be, since it's easy for me to look up. First degree murder where a weapon was used creates an average recommended sentence of 30 years. You have to serve at least 85% so, with good behavior credit, that comes out to a sentence of 26 years.

Wow, that's a long stretch ! Out of interest, was it actually first-degree murder (implying premeditation) ? I wonder how they proved that !

Down here murder is life imprisonment, with a minimum-non-parole period of ten years, or 17 years (depending on which aggravating factors were present in the circumstances), and a Judge can adjust up or down from there ( longest sentence in recent history, life imprisonment with a minimum non parole period of 33 years ). For a killing like Nora's, Henry would probably get around 13 years minimum non-parole -of course that would greatly depend on precisely which facts the jury/judge accepted and which they didn't/
We don't have degrees of murder, only murder and manslaughter (which has very low penalties relative to typical US sentences).

Under our system I would say it is most likely that Henry Allen would have been out on parole after 14 years or so.

Interesting contrast between our justice systems, comparable crimes would get very different sentences (well, they'd both be life imprisonment, but the non-parole periods here would be about half). Still, our country has a very high imprisonment rate, not that much less than the USA.

Cheers.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Wow, that's a long stretch ! Out of interest, was it actually first-degree murder (implying premeditation) ? I wonder how they proved that !

Down here murder is life imprisonment, with a minimum-non-parole period of ten years, or 17 years (depending on which aggravating factors were present in the circumstances), and a Judge can adjust up or down from there ( longest sentence in recent history, life imprisonment with a minimum non parole period of 33 years ). For a killing like Nora's, Henry would probably get around 13 years minimum non-parole -of course that would greatly depend on precisely which facts the jury/judge accepted and which they didn't/
We don't have degrees of murder, only murder and manslaughter (which has very low penalties relative to typical US sentences).

Under our system I would say it is most likely that Henry Allen would have been out on parole after 14 years or so.

Interesting contrast between our justice systems, comparable crimes would get very different sentences (well, they'd both be life imprisonment, but the non-parole periods here would be about half). Still, our country has a very high imprisonment rate, not that much less than the USA.

Cheers.

Yeah, the US system has been getting more and more punitive every year; it's why we have the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world. But I digress.

Premeditation is the issue. Obviously, the show hasn't elaborated on this issue. Premeditation only has to be for an instant. How was she killed? I seem to recall her being stabbed, but I don't remember how I got that. The place was a mess, which suggests either a fight or a struggle (one suggests acting angrily, the other suggests acting in a calculated way). Absent motive or statements, I do think there's a good argument for second degree murder, but it's close. And I don't think Barry's dad agreed to a plea for a reduced sentence, so it probably went to trial on first degree.

 

[Mikelus]

The Tricksters were terrible, way too cheesy. The fact that they're all still lying to Iris is just stupid at this point. The Wells flashbacks were wonderful, however, and the preview was spectacular.

I agree, they were too campy and didn't fit with the rest of the episode. They should've toned it down a bit... also the "I am your father" line was too on the nose fan service, and I'm a fan, but I can live without it. The best part was the twist of the real Dr Wells and Eobard, very well done, Grant Gustin was right about no one seeing this coming!

No it's not, it's stupid as Hell. The reporter in her will STILL write stories that are Flash-related and will STILL be put in danger as a result. The only thing that this does is put her in MORE danger because she won't have all the facts and thus not take the necessary precautions to protect herself. This does NOTHING to "keep her safe" whatsoever.

And I'm just flat-out tired of her being the ONLY main character who doesn't know (hell even Eiling and Captain Cold know). It adds NOTHING of value to the show, it's just an anchor around the character's neck.

Exactly, how can she protect herself if she doesn't know anything? Hopefully she will know by the end of the season, being so clueless is hurting the character more than anything, she's easily the worst character of the Flarrow verse.

 

[ARBH]

Exactly, how can she protect herself if she doesn't know anything? Hopefully she will know by the end of the season, being so clueless is hurting the character more than anything, she's easily the worst character of the Flarrow verse.

I disagree with her being the worst character. She is evolving slower. She has not been a real journalist for long at all. She was just a blogger at the start of the season. Her role has already expanded, albeit slowly. At least she is nowhere near the useless dullard that Laurel Lance has been for almost three seasons of Arrow.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Something my gf and I were discussing. What does future flash do after saving his young self when Nora is killed. They show reverse flash run off and lose his powers. Whats is Grown-future flash doing at this time? Is the timeline changed right when his mom dies so he disappears or what?

As others have said, it depends on what version of time travel they go with. The show seems to be going for a mix of two time travel theories:
A.) When you travel back in time you actually just create a new timeline
B.) Going back in time can change the time you came from.

We've already seen examples of B in the episode where Barry lost his powers and it changed Wells' article that he always references. We haven't really seen A yet, but the actor who plays Cisco has said we will revisit the timeline where he's dead. So both ideas seem to be at play.

Given that, I figured there are two possibilities.
1.) Barry Prime was erased from existence when Eobard killed Nora
2.) Eobard killed Barry Prime in his attempt to get at little Barry.

Option 1 only works if they go with the Option B time travel rules. Option 2 would be the best way to explain Barry's absence if they go with the new timeline idea. I'm sure there are other options, but I haven't thought of one yet.

Either way, it seems pretty clear that Barry Prime is either dead or erased, because RF was cut off from the speed force, and it seems he only has access to the SF if there is a Flash. So Barry Prime can't have been trapped in the past like Wells.

 

[Golgo-13]

Awesome ep. Curious to know where the Flash went to after he took his boyhood self out of the house. Looks like RF was chasing him, before RF lost his powers.

 

[Loki882]

So some people are calling the Trickster's "too cheesy." First of all, have you seen the rest of the show? They've whole-heartedly embraced the fact that Flash has perhaps the cheesiest, most ridiculous rogue's gallery in comics, and are running with it. Captain Cold, Heatwave, Golden Glider, The Top, Mirror Master, etc. Come on, cheese kind of comes with the territory. Also, they're a couple of homicidal pranksters, that's just inherently a "cheesy" concept to being with.

 

[martin2310]

Awesome ep. Curious to know where the Flash went to after he took his boyhood self out of the house. Looks like RF was chasing him, before RF lost his powers.

i think barry moved his younger self away and right after that it looks like he jumped back into the future because he disappears into the street light... while reverse flash gets stuck in the past

 

[Human Torch]

So some people are calling the Trickster's "too cheesy." First of all, have you seen the rest of the show? They've whole-heartedly embraced the fact that Flash has perhaps the cheesiest, most ridiculous rogue's gallery in comics, and are running with it. Captain Cold, Heatwave, Golden Glider, The Top, Mirror Master, etc. Come on, cheese kind of comes with the territory. Also, they're a couple of homicidal pranksters, that's just inherently a "cheesy" concept to being with.

Yeah,at this point I don't even take half the complaints about this show's villains seriously anymore.

You don't like the Rogues, there are like 3 other CB shows that I'm sure have the "gritty" villains you'd rather see.