The Flash The Flash season 2 episode 15 "King Shark"

[Justin]

I'm pretty sure the complicated line had to do with all the breaches being closed and nothing else.

I don't think so. He just murdered a guy who looks identical to him. There's complications there.

 

[SpideyVille]

Did Zoom even know Jay was on Earth 1, or that he was helping Barry?

 

[BestGirl]

Really good episode, entirely(?) lacking the collapses in logic I've come to expect from this show. I never expected to see King Shark again because I assumed he'd break the CW's budget, but I'm so glad he returned. That creature is what nightmares are made of.

The only major down part of the episode was, not surprisingly, the West family drama. Wally is extremely irritating and I don't care about how he's integrating into the family. Is it just me, or does his personality change from episode to episode? I can't nail down who he is as a character.

 

[Silliminite]

Did Zoom even know Jay was on Earth 1, or that he was helping Barry?

According to my theory: Yes. Also, that wasn't the real Jay on Earth 1, it was Earth 1's Hunter Zolomon. Zoom is Earth 2's Zolomon. The two Zolomons were working together. The man in the iron mask is the real Jay Garrick, and is not played by Teddy Sears.

 

[Nathan]

But hasn't Jay been Flash for roughly 2 years on Earth-2? So was Jay fighting Zoom and always barely escaping just an act? And if so, what was their end goal, before a breach opened and allowed them to travel to Earth-1?

 

[Silliminite]

But hasn't Jay been Flash for roughly 2 years on Earth-2? So was Jay fighting Zoom and always barely escaping just an act? And if so, what was their end goal, before a breach opened and allowed them to travel to Earth-1?

Zoom and Garrick's Flash are enemies on E-2. Just after the breach is opened, Zoom captures Garrick and puts him in the iron mask. Zoom then travels to E-1 and finds his doppelganger. He then puts his doppelganger up to the task of infiltrating team Flash as "Jay Garrick".

 

[Man of Steel]

Jay Garrick looks like Teddy Sears, unless the real Jay never got powers at all. Remember, Wells recognized him, and the flashback in Earth-2's S.T.A.R. Labs showed what Jay looks like.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

King Shark: "I know you're here Flash, I can smell you"
Barry: "I don't know how he found me."

King Shark: "You're fast Flash, but in water, I'm faster."
Flash runs on water, and electrocutes the monster.
King Shark: "Oh poop, I'm going deep"

 

[TWayneP]

God this is all so freaking dumb. What about Henry? They are seriously going to be this lazy? All the potential emotional impact from that route has been thrown away. The entire first season was about rescuing Henry.

E2 Henry killing E1 Henry and replacing him, while also being Zoom would not only have been cool, but would have made up for the **** writing his character had, and explain a lot. With him "being away" and constantly being distant and all. The impact that would have on Barry would be unmatched and Zoom would truly prove to be his arch nemesis. Now it's just **** writing.

Zoom being Jay just over complicates things and just lets Henry be a crap character. It doesn't have nearly the same impact.

What about Earth 2 Eddie? Even that would have been a better "ah-****" moment, if nothing else.


They also really need to update their freaking CG Flash model. They are still using the original season one suit and it's just awful.

This want a great episode, just average with a disappointing ending.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

God this is all so freaking dumb. What about Henry? They are seriously going to be this lazy? All the potential emotional impact from that route has been thrown away. The entire first season was about rescuing Henry.

E2 Henry killing E1 Henry and replacing him, while also being Zoom would not only have been cool, but would have made up for the **** writing his character had, and explain a lot. With him "being away" and constantly being distant and all. The impact that would have on Barry would be unmatched and Zoom would truly prove to be his arch nemesis. Now it's just **** writing.

Zoom being Jay just over complicates things and just lets Henry be a crap character. It doesn't have nearly the same impact.

What about Earth 2 Eddie? Even that would have been a better "ah-****" moment, if nothing else.


They also really need to update their freaking CG Flash model. They are still using the original season one suit and it's just awful.

This want a great episode, just average with a disappointing ending.

So the episode isn't "great", because your guess was wrong? That's what your rant boils down to.

I don't agree with your point about the CG because I thought the lightning whirpool scene was ****ing awesome, but it's a reasonable criticism I suppose.

The rest though... sounds like a temper tantrum because you didn't get your way.

 

[TWayneP]

So the episode isn't "great", because your guess was wrong? That's what your rant boils down to.

I don't agree with your point about the CG because I thought the lightning whirpool scene was ****ing awesome, but it's a reasonable criticism I suppose.

The rest though... sounds like a temper tantrum because you didn't get your way.

No, but the end did contribute to it as a whole obviously. I was borderline bored the whole time and wasn't even expecting the ending. It really threw me off because it was far too anticlimactic. I shouted out "NO" even before the reveal, because it was just bad timing. Hell it's not even about my guess being wrong, it's the bad writing leading up to it now. Everything I thought they were being smart about, they were not.

I liked the whirlpool scene but the CG was awful and distracting, lol. King Shark looked good but not as fantastic as his first appearance.

I said the episode was average not bad. If I just based it on the ending then I would have said it was all entirely garbage but I didn't, did I? There were some enjoyable moments but it did feel like filler. It's not a "great" episode. They even threw away the possibility of Caitlin becoming Killer Frost which I also had a problem with. This show is disappointing me left and right this season.

Really unless this is all a swerve. (I kinda hope it is now) but all that would do is make it more convoluted than it already is.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Fair enough. I can see where you're coming from. I thought it was a good reveal, because I honestly thought Zoom was Eddie Thawne so it took me by surprise.

 

[zenith16]

Man, how did Barry manage to beat King Shark? I mean there was no one actually telling him what to do. Did he actually think for himself for once?

I forgot to mention that. It was definitely a good thing to see and I hope it continues.

well technically this was the second time Barry thought for him and had a plan of attack which he didn't have the plan come from the star lab's team or need a pep talk. the first time was still with zoom and there was this past Tuesday night..

The only difference is with Zoom with that free fall fight at the top of the roof of star labs while it worked for a short time, once Barry and Zoom were on the ground again, the fight was lost to Barry and his spin was snapped .


But this time with king shark Barry won this one with his personal plan as a opposed to the former. I guess this what makes the difference here for you both and alob of other people. But it's still technically the second time for Barry thing for him self with out the star labs team suggesting or giving him a pep talk . it's just the results were different. Hopefully we see more of it.

 

[Whotony]

According to my theory: Yes. Also, that wasn't the real Jay on Earth 1, it was Earth 1's Hunter Zolomon. Zoom is Earth 2's Zolomon. The two Zolomons were working together. The man in the iron mask is the real Jay Garrick, and is not played by Teddy Sears.

Ok some of that makes sense but how did E-1 Jay/Zolomon get to E-2 in the first place to then come to E-1 saying he is E-2's Flash Jay Garrick?

 

[Dark Raven]

The only reason people thought that was because 'man in the iron mask' is a film where the bad guy keeps his twin locked away in an iron mask.

This could easily be a red herring. It could be E1 Eddie, E1 Ronnie, E1 Henry, E2 Wally or who knows who else in that mask.

At this point it would be a bit disappointing if yet another reveal turns out to be 'Jay Garrick' tbh.

a) The film "The Man In the Iron Mask" is based on the third part of a classic "Three Musketeers" novel by Alexander Dumas.

b) The novel is based on a historical mystery about an actual prisoner kept in a mask with many speculating as to his identity. Dumas's novel about the prisoner being the twin brother of King Louis XIV is only ONE theory as to his identity.

This means, if the Flash is using the actual historical mystery as their basis, he doesn't have to be a twin at all but someone entirely separate who looks completely different to the villain. So he doesn't even have to be played by Teddy Sears.

 

[Hunter Rider]

This ep was just flat out fun. I mean the Barry working through his conflict over what he saw on Earth 2 and his failures was well done, and I like Jesse Quick, I think her and Cisco are going to be a fun duo, but this was all about King Shark!

The action with King Shark was just superb, for me I feel it was a real landmark episode for Superhero TV, The shots of him were great and they even made him talking work. The action involving him all came off really well with him being a huge menacing presence, and the way Flash defeated him was brilliant.

I'm cool with the Zoom reveal I just wish the suit didn't looks so cheap once he takes the mask off and the thing lost it's organic texture.

 

[zenith16]

But hasn't Jay been Flash for roughly 2 years on Earth-2? So was Jay fighting Zoom and always barely escaping just an act? And if so, what was their end goal, before a breach opened and allowed them to travel to Earth-1?

It's very likely he did meet the real jay once but both zoom and the one impersonating Jay caught the real jay some how and cause both now look like jay earth 2 Dr. Wells just wouldn't know the difference.

I've put this in the three other threads Andrew Kreisberg made another statement


Comic Book Resources

3 hrs ·








Will the season (and Zoom storyline) end in a satisfying way?




Kreisberg Says "Flash" Fans Should Have Seen Zoom's Identity Reveal Coming
"Flash" EP Andrew Kreisberg promises "everything will make sense in a very satisfying way."

SPOILER WARNING: This article contains major spoilers for "King Shark," the most recent episode of "The Flash."

Last night's "Flash" episode contained a massive reveal that viewers have been eagerly anticipating all season long. After months of tormenting Team Flash, Zoom finally unmasked himself. The big shock? He's Jay Garrick -- the very man that we saw Zoom kill in the final moments of last week's episode.


The reveal blows up many fan theories and adds another twist to both the identity of Zoom, the true nature of Team Flash's resident "Jay Garrick" and the reveal that Earth-1's Garrick is called Hunter Zolomon. Considering that one of Zoom's alternate identities in the comics is Hunter Zolomon, "Flash" showrunner Andrew Kreisberg told TV Line that that one clue should have tipped off audiences.


“What’s funny is we showed that Jay’s doppelganger was Hunter Zolomon, and we assumed the comic book fans would say, ‘A-ha’ right away. ‘Jay must be Zoom,’" said Kreisberg. "But I think that, like Barry and the team, they didn’t want to or just couldn’t believe it.”
Kreisberg also discussed the man posing as Jay Garrick that has become a valued member of Team Flash over the course of season two. “I don’t think you can assume anything that Jay has said to the team or the audience is the full truth. It is a version of the truth,” said Kreisberg.


And then there's the mystery of the man in the iron mask, the one that freaked out over hearing the name "Jay" in last week's "Escape from Earth-2" episode. What's his deal, and will he clarify or confuse matters more? “The mystery of the Man in the Iron Mask will play out over the rest of the season with some clues being layered in along the way,” said Kreisberg. “When you do find out who it is, everything will make sense in a very satisfying way.”


"The Flash" returns to the CW with new episodes on Tuesday, March 22.​

COMIC BOOK RESOURCES

 

[Golgo-13]

"This..is a complication……."

 

[terry78]

"This..is a complication……."

Understatement .

 

[TWayneP]

“What’s funny is we showed that Jay’s doppelganger was Hunter Zolomon, and we assumed the comic book fans would say, ‘A-ha’ right away. ‘Jay must be Zoom,’" said Kreisberg. "But I think that, like Barry and the team, they didn’t want to or just couldn’t believe it.”

1. We did say say that. Every comic fan knows who Hunter is.

2. It's not that we didn't want to believe it, it's just that it's so ****ing predictable and telegraphed. What's the point in even having a reveal then? Again we were just giving the writers too much credit. Thinking they could really twist the material into something more captivating. Nope. Even if zoom turns out to be someone else or the man in the mask plays a more pivotal role, it's all so convoluted at this point.

 

[Dark Raven]

“What’s funny is we showed that Jay’s doppelganger was Hunter Zolomon, and we assumed the comic book fans would say, ‘A-ha’ right away. ‘Jay must be Zoom,’" said Kreisberg. "But I think that, like Barry and the team, they didn’t want to or just couldn’t believe it.”

1. We did say say that. Every comic fan knows who Hunter is.

2. It's not that we didn't want to believe it, it's just that it's so ****ing predictable and telegraphed. What's the point in even having a reveal then? Again we were just giving the writers too much credit. Thinking they could really twist the material into something more captivating. Nope. Even if zoom turns out to be someone else or the man in the mask plays a more pivotal role, it's all so convoluted at this point.

How do you know it's not more like a double bluff? If you give someone obvious, the audience have watched enough now that the person will seem too obvious, so they are immediately discounted. But if that person becomes the one who is least suspected now because of that, then wouldn't the writers decide to go with that?

 

[Silliminite]

Ok some of that makes sense but how did E-1 Jay/Zolomon get to E-2 in the first place to then come to E-1 saying he is E-2's Flash Jay Garrick?

Who said E-1's Zolomon went to E-2? Zoom found him and simply put him up to the task of lying to the team.

 

[aNarcHy2day]

The effects for King Shark were as good as anything I imagined was possible on their budget. The episode as a whole was good with good action sequences though the emotional aspects were a bit lacking IMO.

One thing I find a little jarring is the timeline of Flash and Arrow, more specifically Diggle, his helmet and Lyla in this case.

Good reveal in the end. I guess I kept an open mind about it so I'm not disappointed.

 

[WereCoyote]

The man in the iron mask is the real Jay Garrick, and is not played by Teddy Sears.

Then why wouldn't E2 Wells recognize that the "Jay Garrick" there in Star Labs, isn't Jay Garrick?

 

[Dark Raven]

Then why wouldn't E2 Wells recognize that the "Jay Garrick" there in Star Labs, isn't Jay Garrick?

If Wells only ever met someone who looks like Sears who claimed to be Jay but not the real Jay, then he would think the person working with them all this time is Jay when he's not.