The Flash The Flash season 3 episode 1 - "Flashpoint"

[BH/HHH]

they absolutely are allowed to praise it but i want to know what was great about that episode. I didnt like it and i explained why i didnt like it.

His parents are a HUGE part of the show. The main reason for almost everything Barry does. And now he just lets his mom and dad die again.

You can see my anger is focused mainly on the Parents dying again part. The rest was ok/ good. Would be better if it was a 2 parter. It felt really rushed.

I enjoyed the changes like Joe been a drunk and Wally been Kid Flash. The team up versus the Rival was awesome too.

But I will agree it would have been better as a two parter, and thinking back to the comic as someone pointed out the world was in way worse shape. I do wonder if they were restricted what they could do. I reckon Flashpoint will be done on film someday.

 

[j-beda]

The smallest but most perplexing change was Caitlin's new job as an optometrist: ostensibly, this is a major change, but then she fulfills her usual role as team medic without even a hint of education, and comes up with the plan to track the Rival, making the changes to her story seem pointless.

I think she was a pediatric opthamologist rather than an optometrist - that is five or six of training years post medical school, including the general residency training required of all medial school graduates before getting their license. It is an eye-DOCTOR designation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pediatric_ophthalmology

Probably this is more useful from a medical treatment point of view than whatever biological training she might have had being a research scientiest at STAR's particle accelerator. I guess she could have been some sort of MD/researcher using the accelerator for cancer treatment experiments?

 

[Mike_D202]

Well, maybe the DCU will give us a flashpoint story with the film version of the flash since they have the rights to all the characters used in the actual story.

 

[Asr]

My wife's take on it - why can't they stop with the messing with his head stuff and just let him fight criminals. My take on it - why can't they stop with the messing with his head stuff and just let him fight criminals

I have to agree, the show is so much better when it's just Flash vs bad guy(s). The family melodrama is getting way too played out at this point and the ending of this episode with respect to Iris just made me groan. I'm sick and tired of her as a character and would prefer if she just wasn't on the show.

Having seen the animated Flashpoint Paradox movie (sorry, I don't read the actual comic books ), I was hoping for something at least a little close to that but that was clearly expecting too much for this show. Fortunately I really dig Matt Letscher as Reverse Flash (man he just kills it as the character) so the episode wasn't a total waste, but if S3 keeps piling on the Iris melodrama, I think I might stop watching the show. It needs to just go back to the superheroics of S1 and (part of) S2.

It's times like this when I wish the guys in WB's Animation department had leverage outside of the Animation department and had creative input on the live-action TV shows (not to mention WB's live-action movies). The Animation guys get these characters so well but no one else does, I'd kill to see the DCAU Timmverse translated to live action!

 

[Thome216]

Or why can't current Barry go back in time again, knowing what he knows now, and stop end of season 2 Barry from saving his mother and stopping RF instead of having RF deliberately kill his mother? It might not be such a change to the timeline but just would reset it to pre Flashpoint.

He did stop himself once before from saving his mother. And yes, doing that would have been much better than drawing out her death to such a excruciating degree.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I love time travel stories. My wife doesn't. We both didn't like this episode. My wife's take on it - why can't they stop with the messing with his head stuff and just let him fight criminals. My take on it - why can't they stop with the messing with his head stuff and just let him fight criminals, and boy, did they really screw up some of that time travel stuff. Others covered what was wrong with it from his acting like a 13 year old to his quick decision to have his mother murdered.

I think this sums it up beautifully. The part I really enjoyed was when the gang was back together, trying to figure it out. But outside of that, it just feels like a not so well done time travel story that gets worse the more you think about it. I am really starting to miss season 1 at this point.

 

[zenith16]

How did the version of Barry that saved his mother at the end of last season disappear when Reverse Flash reappeared on that night after Flashpoint? Why should he do that? And couldn't Barry from the past (eg at the end of season 1 or some other version still stop RF and alter history once again?

yeah here's the thing a side effect of having two of your self to make the an event happen 0 what's called a focal point happen where nora'a involved. there was a Eobard Thawne knocked out on the floor. and there newer version of him that just came in to finish the job. the reason that version barry vanished is weird. but it may be due to that there a version of eobard still conscious with that newer Eobard Thawne ready to kill his mother .

it make no sense . I know. it should have been that that newer trowing down with Barry , cause Barry would have had to fight the newer version of Eobard Thawne and the one he knocked might have started to wake up and tried to kill Nora. no matter what. she would die.

Or why can't current Barry go back in time again, knowing what he knows now, and stop end of season 2 Barry from saving his mother and stopping RF instead of having RF deliberately kill his mother? It might not be such a change to the timeline but just would reset it to pre Flashpoint.

hmm ,the point of this was for Barry to realize that he's not supposed to be messing with time to this level. while he thinks he's getting what he want's , it's till effect's the people around him and the consequence's are they will suffer in his place in order for his own personal wants more then needs. the univser doesn't agree him inthe needs department. and it was more that he wanted his parents alive. then needed them.

And you can't keep doing this repeatedly cause there other worse consequence's for that, the more you do this . the point is life doesn't let you have things the way you want it.


it's not a fast food restaurant. you can't always have "your way." it ain't burger king or harvey's Dairy queen etc.
and something else worse will come after him for it ,to make him suffer worse by going after the other's if not him self.

The point is he can't use time travel to solve his problems for everything . for some things maybe, but to do it for every thing that goes wrong every time he can't.

And unlike Eobard , Barry doesn't have the stomach to let other's suffer to keep his own happiness. Barry doesn't want to be a villain. But Barry can still doom alot of reality's by being selfish if he does time travel repeatedly . .

 

[Dark Raven]

yeah here's the thing a side effect of having two of your self to make the an event happen 0 what's called a focal point happen where nora'a involved. there was a Eobard Thawne knocked out on the floor. and there newer version of him that just came in to finish the job. the reason that version barry vanished is weird. but it may be due to that there a version of eobard still conscious with that newer Eobard Thawne ready to kill his mother .

it make no sense . I know. it should have been that that newer trowing down with Barry , cause Barry would have had to fight the newer version of Eobard Thawne and the one he knocked might have started to wake up and tried to kill Nora. no matter what. she would die. hmm ,the point of this was for Barry to realize that he's not supposed to be messing with time to this level. while he thinks he's getting what he want's , it's till effect's the people around him and the consequence's are they will suffer in his place in order for his own personal wants more then needs. the univser doesn't agree him inthe needs department. and it was more that he wanted his parents alive. then needed them.

And you can't keep doing this repeatedly cause there other worse consequence's for that, the more you do this . the point is life doesn't let you have things the way you want it.


it's not a fast food restaurant. you can't always have "your way." it ain't burger king or harvey's Dairy queen etc.
and something else worse will come after him for it ,to make him suffer worse by going after the other's if not him self.

The point is he can't use time travel to solve his problems for everything . for some things maybe, but to do it for every thing that goes wrong every time he can't.

And unlike Eobard , Barry doesn't have the stomach to let other's suffer to keep his own happiness. Barry doesn't want to be a villain. But Barry can still doom alot of reality's by being selfish if he does time travel repeatedly . .

Well Barry doesn't have to keep going back in time, but he could've done so that one time to fix his "mistake" and reset things to how they were before. But the thing is that his action at the end of season 2 was meant to be a "reset" because Nora wasn't supposed to have died in the first place in the original timeline before this series took place.

And I agree that Barry should've been throwing down with the new Eobard. If end of season 2 Barry was so determined to save his mother, he would've surely fought to the death to prevent this new Eobard from now killing Nora (had Barry not disappeared).

Did all the other Barry's disappear? I don't get the impression they did. At the end of season 1, Barry encountered another version of himself who warned him off. Who is that version? If Barry stops going back in time now, then where does that version come from? He seems to know the consequence of messing with time and saving Nora and seems to realise it must happen. But such a Barry could only have this knowledge post Flashpoint. But the post-Flashpoint Barry wouldn't be going back in time anymore.

They should've just made that Barry (who warned the other one off) the post-Flashpoint Barry. He could've been there to stop season 2 Barry and then waited in the shadows to warn off season 1 Barry. Otherwise where does this Barry come from? He shouldn't exist now he's not time travelling anymore.

 

[zenith16]

Well Barry doesn't have to keep going back in time, but he could've done so that one time to fix his "mistake" and reset things to how they were before. But the thing is that his action at the end of season 2 was meant to be a "reset" because Nora wasn't supposed to have died in the first place in the original timeline before this series took place.

I think the problem here that the show is trying tell is that just one more time won't change the results . cause he created flash point no matter what he does there will always be something different when he turns things back and it won't be what he what he want's .

he he'll keep doing til he get what he desires >>"but what he want's" << that won't happen. in that time all that he's is having more things like time wraiths come after him and other chaos. it'll be like being addicted there.

And I agree that Barry should've been throwing down with the new Eobard. If end of season 2 Barry was so determined to save his mother, he would've surely fought to the death to prevent this new Eobard from now killing Nora (had Barry not disappeared).
Did all the other Barry's disappear?

yeah I said that to make things easier. and go into the details about disappearing. cause the answer is , yes when the first time Barry realized he can time travel, one did disappear in season one , where there was that lady complaining about the cab's in the city of central city.

this is after Barry confessed his love to Iris the first time while she wasstill with eddie , told her he was the flash and weather wizard had joe hostage , near the dock's of the river front , beaten up badly. And Barry was trying to save the city from a tidal wave.

I don't get the impression they did.

oh it did happen alot in season 1. I gave an example. the other time was with vandal savage I think.

At the end of season 1, Barry encountered another version of himself who warned him off.

I think that was an alternate furture version of himself and a much older Barry, the one that eobard knew from his own time line, that he claimed was smarter then this one that eobard himself created by going back and made thing's happen earlier then they should have .

Who is that version?

the one that eobard grew up as a teen worshiping as a hero befor eobard himself went bad.
this dude.

Crisis in 2024

A crisis in 2024 reporting a battle between Flash and Reverse-Flash.

If Barry stops going back in time now, then where does that version come from?

it's one that is the head director of forensics's and created his own version of Gideon and

He seems to know the consequence of messing with time and saving Nora and seems to realise it must happen. But such a Barry could only have this knowledge post Flashpoint. But the post-Flashpoint Barry wouldn't be going back in time anymore. [/QUOTE]

this where it's get very complicated.


that would be the one that Gideon in the time vault showed the star labs crew. where he's married to iris created Gideon and created he forensic's thing

this one

They should've just made that Barry(who warned the other one off) the post-Flashpoint Barry. He could've been there to stop season 2 Barry and then waited in the shadows to warn off season 1 Barry. Otherwise where does this Barry come from? He shouldn't exist now he's not time travelling anymore.

no it wouldn't have been him sadly

there's a reason this current Barry didn't fallow eobard after ordering the hit( boy, I was just reminded of that cancelled show gang related saying this )on his mother.

cause like in season 1 that version of him that just saved his mother and started flash point (or this version of it) would have still disappeared and flash point would have be voided regardless and it's pointless for that barry that said for eobard to kill his mom to have a speeded fist fight with Eobard then to warn the other one not to interfere . it just would have been pointless for him to have shown up.

 

[optimus2861]

At the end of season 1, Barry encountered another version of himself who warned him off. Who is that version? If Barry stops going back in time now, then where does that version come from? He seems to know the consequence of messing with time and saving Nora and seems to realise it must happen. But such a Barry could only have this knowledge post Flashpoint. But the post-Flashpoint Barry wouldn't be going back in time anymore.

They should've just made that Barry (who warned the other one off) the post-Flashpoint Barry. He could've been there to stop season 2 Barry and then waited in the shadows to warn off season 1 Barry. Otherwise where does this Barry come from? He shouldn't exist now he's not time travelling anymore.

Indeed, they did seem to miss an opportunity to close the loop. Have this Barry stop S2 Barry from doing what he did, and then the future Barry that warns S1 Barry off is unimpeded from his tasks. But that would've required more thought & foresight than these writers seem capable of any more.

This should be the end of time travel shenanigans on the show until / unless they get new writing staff that can handle it.

 

[CrystalFortress]

I don't really understand why he had to let Reverse Flash go back to kill his mother. Could he not just have went back and stopped S2 Flash from stopping the original Reverse Flash? much like Future Flash stopped S1 Flash from interfering?

It was an enjoyable episode overall with some problems, the whole concept was a little rushed.

 

[zenith16]

I don't really understand why he had to let Reverse Flash go back to kill his mother. Could he not just have went back and stopped S2 Flash from stopping the original Reverse Flash? much like Future Flash stopped S1 Flash from interfering?

It was an enjoyable episode overall with some problems, the whole concept was a little rushed.

it's cause barry saw his mom die twice already and to allow it a third time he wouldn't be able to stop him that createdthis version of flash point to doing after loosing his father and be determined after seeing jay which sparked his want.

This should be the end of time travel shenanigans on the show until / unless they get new writing staff that can handle it.

hmm, i would agree. I wanted them to keep time travel out inseason 2. since they were exploring the muli-verse with other alternate realities . it would confuse people to degree if rush explanations with bot event's happening.

but the writers really wanted it in some how.

Again it's the writers chose and they have to see what the audience see. Which is becoming a rare thing these days that some things aren't connecting with the audience if it's not explained well.. it's the weird cathy movie(the Millisa McCarthy starred in and was written by her and her husband) effect again , where the writers think they cleaver and when it reach's the audience .... thing's didn't go as they expected.


the time ramanent's were explained finally in the flash wikia

here it is in this link>>:[B]http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/Time_remnant[/B]

Time remnants, or timeline remnants, as dubbed by Harry Wells, are a phenomenon that occurs as the result of meta-human speedsters' time travel abilities. Due to possible time ruptures and changes brought by the speedsters traveling (and/or staying) further back in time or even a speedster's death, the time remnants are preserved via the Speed Force as if in their original timelines, have to appear in the new timeline in order to prevent further time paradoxes.

^^ but for some of those of us fans who don't have access to that or know of this and just have sort understanding of it , they won't get it , if they have short attention span with how show goes about it or didn't tape the show.

this is why I kept saying they are an echo. they are a recording (a sentient one) in the speed force and this is why they don't effect any past events when brought to the present to help hero or villain . like when that one version of Barry that died stopping zoom's final plan, before zoom him self was taken away by the time wrath's . a more Extensive & very detailed "overview" is in the link above

It's not a past version of Barry , it's just a artificial recorded version of him via the speed force. The mu has this same thing via the astral plane with telepaths.

 

[BestGirl]

Indeed, they did seem to miss an opportunity to close the loop. Have this Barry stop S2 Barry from doing what he did, and then the future Barry that warns S1 Barry off is unimpeded from his tasks. But that would've required more thought & foresight than these writers seem capable of any more.

This should be the end of time travel shenanigans on the show until / unless they get new writing staff that can handle it.

Unfortunately, Barry'll probably have to go back in time again to fix the Iris/Joe feud. God, I hope he finds another way around it but I don't think he will.

 

[aNarcHy2day]

It was REALLY REALLY rushed and had to be a 2-3 parter.

 

[Big Al]

It was entertaining, but I would have liked it better if it was at best five episodes. I would have liked to have seen Robert Queen as Green Arrow since we can't get Thomas Wayne as Batman. However I do like the subtle references to the Flashpoint animated movie where Joe kills The Rival, it reminded me of when Thomas Wayne shot Reverse Flash.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I literally just finished watching the episode and... I called it from the end of last season but this was actually worse than I had conceived. I at least thought they would stretch the story of Barry in an alternate timeline out for a couple of episodes, three to four tops. Nope. As per usual the writers rush important things and spend time building up drama for things that don't matter since they wrap them up so quickly and then what do you know, again add totally unecessary drama to keep spinning the wheels.

So many expected some grand story of an alternate timeline but I knew these creators could never deliver. This was an episode that showcased all of the weaknesses the show has in concentrated form, from lackluster dialog to low balling the drama, to AGAIN having Barry require inspirational speeches to accomplish his job of being a super hero. It is such a shame that Gustin is so good as this version of Barry/Flash but he's wasted on a show whose writers are so mediocre in their execution of plot and characters.

 

[jihado86]

^^

I totally agree.
this show is very cartoon-ish.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

As per usual the writers rush important things and spend time building up drama for things that don't matter since they wrap them up so quickly and then what do you know, again add totally unecessary drama to keep spinning the wheels.

Expect to find more rushed out plotlines with the dragging drama.

AGAIN having Barry require inspirational speeches to accomplish his job of being a super hero.

That's the stupidest thing in the episode, even dumber than him saying "I need you to kill my mother" this early.
At least they didn't tell him to spin around the cyclone this time in the opposite direction of its spin.

 

[the dmg]

The alternate timeline should have been a two-parter, IMO. Best part of the episode was Thawne telling Barry the Flash from the future is not dumb. The action seems to be better as well, which is good to change it up when it comes to speedsters.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Flashpoint was rushed that much is clear. Two-parter it should have been and things should've escalated to defcon 7 for the world at large for Barry to go back rather than the lame reason of him losing his memories and powers as a motivation.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

He would lose his memories, no one said anything about him actually losing his speed.
Anyway, Iris calling to say "I believe in you, you are the Flash" flushed his Flash memories out back.

 

[The Caped Knight]

He would lose his memories, no one said anything about him actually losing his speed.
Anyway, Iris calling to say "I believe in you, you are the Flash" flushed his Flash memories out back.

Eobard said he'd lose his powers!

 

[Avenging Angel]

The tone of this show has changed so much. The writers should written the story line over 3A. No reason why it only stretched two episodes.

 

[Mask&Cape]

That made very little sense.

All Barry had to do was let the new timeline cement and he would have his parents back for good, but Wally is dying so he kills them? And no explanation for why Kid Flash suddenly can't heal?

Why? And how was everybody he knows suffering? Ramon and Snow were happy.

Joe was an alcoholic and his kids didn't talk to him? Then put him in rehab and get the family a therapist. You don't kill your parents.

Very disappointing episode.

"Flashpoint" could have been a fun multi episode crossover story with Arrow & Legends - have the world in tatters and present Barry with a REAL reason as to why'd he'd have to let his mother die that night. Not to save some guy he barely knows.

And Barry wasn't even upset - through himself on the couch and had a beer.

If this Joe/Iris problem is the only fallout from this event, then it the episode will matter very little overall.

He would lose his memories, no one said anything about him actually losing his speed.
Anyway, Iris calling to say "I believe in you, you are the Flash" flushed his Flash memories out back.

Eobard said he'd lose his powers!

I believe Spider-Aziz is correct. Reverse Flash said he would forget he was The Flash, not that he'd lose his powers.

And forgetting doesn't matter, because the next time he tries to do something quickly, like run, he would discover he is a speedster. He just wouldn't remember how.

Is this seasons main villain another speedster? The Rival? We've had that twice* now and it would be good to have a big bad with a different set of powers.

Arrow's season arcs always involve guys out to destroy or conquer the city, but this is okay because the villains are different every time.

 

[Mask&Cape]

The tone of this show has changed so much. The writers should written the story line over 3A. No reason why it only stretched two episodes.

By "3A" do you mean half a season?

That would be could but sharing a universe with two other shows makes that difficult. "Flashpoint" would have to affect Arrow and Legends and there are people who don't follow all the shows - I know many who watch Arrow and not The Flash so you have to take the audience into account.

However, like I said above, I agree this story needed to be epic.

They should have made made a 90 TV movie, or have The Flash Season 3 return two weeks earlier than Arrow and have the Arrowverse as a dystopia with no Flash and Barry Allen suddenly having visions of a better world, etc. and turning to some version of Green Arrow for help. This is the basic gist of the comic book isn't it?