The Flash The Flash season 3 episode 20 "I Know Who You Are"

[TheGearMan]

He could only know that if he came directly from the future of 2017 Barry's timeline.

But even if he did come from the future, it's not like there's any precedent for Barry remembering his past after he changes his own past. That episode in season 2 with Pied Piper and the entire beginning of season 3 proved that after changes are made to the timestream, those changes to not enter the time-altering Barry's mind.

 

[Dark Raven]

But even if he did come from the future, it's not like there's any precedent for Barry remembering his past after he changes his own past. That episode in season 2 with Pied Piper and the entire beginning of season 3 proved that after changes are made to the timestream, those changes to not enter the time-altering Barry's mind.

I'm not saying Savitar/ Future Barry remembers his past after Barry changes his own past. I'm saying that he remembers his past when things have played out as they were, such as that confrontation with Killer Frost where she knew exactly what Barry was going to say and where Cisco would be. That was not a changed event.

What I'm saying is that if Future Barry is from a different timeline, then he can't remember the other Barry's past from the other timeline, because it is not even his past at all. It's effectively a different person's past.

It would be simpler to illustrate this with a graphic:

When Flashpoint occurs, Barry has an alternate timeline, represented by the black line and the letter B. If he continues down that timeline, everything happens along that path and he is not party to what happens on the red time line.

Barry in the non-Flashpoint timeline is represented by the red line and the letter A. If he goes back to the time before Flashpoint occurred (represented by that blue vertical line), instead of continuing on the black line, he now continues on the red line.

His conversation with Killer Frost in "I know who you are" occurred on May 2 2017 on the red time line. That is Barry's own history. When he went forward to 2024, that was also on the red time line. So everything that occurs on this red timeline, he should remember later on in the future.

But if Savitar comes from the black time line as a result of Flashpoint, he has not experienced any of the events of the red time line. So he can't have experienced that conversation with KF on May 2 2017 because it doesn't occur on the black line. It only happens on the red line. The black line is essentially a different path and a different life.

So in order for Savitar to know the events of May 2 2017 and all of Barry's history after Flashpoint (where there two lines diverge), he has to also be from the red time line, whether after 2024 or the morose Flash he met in 2024 who may have been deceiving him.

How can a Future Flash know and have experienced the events of both timelines unless he is somehow like Alchemy and can experience everything simultaneously no matter which path he is actually on?

 

[Meulenhof_K]

it's clear that everyone is confused.

i agree with the fact that evil barry shouldn't or can't be from another timeline, wich is explained ^

But then again, how could he be from the same timeline?
Evil barry made it clear that future good barry trapped him, eventually..
Did they seperate into ying and yang? Is Evil barry a remnant?

Also i don't believe Savitar is created through flashpoint, he clearly said that 'once barry created flashpoint, i took the opportunity to use wally as bait" or something like that.
Imo savitar was already in the future with or without flashpoint.

But i wouldn't be surprised if they'll use flashpoint again as reason for it all.

 

[mqg96]

Flashpoint means that everything between the day Nora Allen got killed in 2000 to the following events until 2016 were changed. So when you think of the post-Flashpoint timeline we're in now, you can't just think of everything different from October 2016-present, but you also gotta think of the effects Flashpoint had between 2000 and September 2016 as well. This includes John and Lyla Diggle having a son instead of a daughter. Cisco's brother Dante dying, or Caitlin being affected by the accelerator explosion even though her powers wouldn't start manifesting until over 2 years after it happened. After Barry created Flashpoint, he also created Savitar (his future self) in this process who is an infinite paradoxical loop, or a bootstrap paradox. Barry losing Iris to his future self drove him crazy and made him become Savitar in the far distant future blaming his past self for his mistakes, then the cycle continues infinitely. My theory is that the speed force did this on purpose as a punishment for our prime Barry so he can finally stop messing with time, instead of sending the time wraiths on him like before. Savitar is not a time remnant of Barry, it's his future self (most likely 2056 or a little after). We clearly saw this when Caitlin was mocking Barry's words and on the latest promo Wally said "Savitar is a version of Barry from the future. He remembers everything he does." If Barry was already sick in the mind by 2024, then imagine how much worse he'd be further in the future.

 

[zenith16]

Flashpoint means that everything between the day Nora Allen got killed in 2000 to the following events until 2016 were changed. So when you think of the post-Flashpoint timeline we're in now, you can't just think of everything different from October 2016-present, but you also gotta think of the effects Flashpoint had between 2000 and September 2016 as well. This includes John and Lyla Diggle having a son instead of a daughter. Cisco's brother Dante dying, or Caitlin being affected by the accelerator explosion even though her powers wouldn't start manifesting until over 2 years after it happened. After Barry created Flashpoint, he also created Savitar (his future self) in this process who is an infinite paradoxical loop, or a bootstrap paradox. Barry losing Iris to his future self drove him crazy and made him become Savitar in the far distant future blaming his past self for his mistakes, then the cycle continues infinitely. My theory is that the speed force did this on purpose as a punishment for our prime Barry so he can finally stop messing with time, instead of sending the time wraiths on him like before. Savitar is not a time remnant of Barry, it's his future self (most likely 2056 or a little after). We clearly saw this when Caitlin was mocking Barry's words and on the latest promo Wally said "Savitar is a version of Barry from the future. He remembers everything he does." If Barry was already sick in the mind by 2024, then imagine how much worse he'd be further in the future.

Hmmm let's let saviter tell us his reason in stead of assuming. it's possible. but then again seeing he's killing iris it's possible this version doesn't care for iris at all ether. we'll have to see.

 

[TheGearMan]

I'm saying that he remembers his past when things have played out as they were, such as that confrontation with Killer Frost where she knew exactly what Barry was going to say and where Cisco would be. That was not a changed event.

But wouldn't it be a changed event, considering just Savitar being there must have changed things?

 

[metaphysician]

Thing is, we know from prior stories that when your past changes, your memories eventually shift to the "new" past. It would be entirely plausible that Savitar remembers the "current" past because, even though things have changed? They still haven't changed in a way that doesn't lead to "Savitar triumphant". As long as he still ultimately wins, its still his past, and he remembers it. In order to keep him from remembering the current past, they need to get events so that Savitar is entirely averted ( or at least radically transformed in future history ).

 

[Dark Raven]

But wouldn't it be a changed event, considering just Savitar being there must have changed things?

I think you're talking at cross purposes.

I'm not talking about Savitar's presence changing things. I'm talking about Barry himself changing things such as his own past by going back in time. Barry did not change the past to bring about the conversation with Killer Frost and himself. It's just something that played out.

Of course anyone's presence is going to have an effect on any event. But Savitar wasn't there during that conversation. It was Barry, and Savitar is remembering what Barry is remembering. It's not that Savitar was there listening in.

And Savitar can only remember that event if it is this same Barry having that conversation with KF that eventually becomes Savitar. If it's a Barry from a different timeline, then he is not party to these events because these events didn't play out exactly like this, if at all. If it's Barry from the Flashpoint timeline, then that Barry was off doing other things and not experiencing the events of this season.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I read somewhere the smartest thing Barry ever did was figure out his future self was Savitar.

 

[Octavias]

Savitar came on the scene having alchemy recreate flashpoint metas, so it stands to reason thats where he is from... banished to somewhere between existing and nonexistence by this barry stopping flashpoint...