The Flash The Flash season 3 episode 21 "Cause and Effect"

[Lencho01]

Was a kinda silly episode, but it was ok. Though, it was kinda weird to have one like that as the season is wrapping up.

 

[BestGirl]

Why did Barry agree to testify when he knew full well he had lost all his forensic knowledge? Why did Cecile allow it?

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Why did Barry agree to testify when he knew full well he had lost all his forensic knowledge? Why did Cecile allow it?

That whole scene just didn't make sense really.

 

[legendkillin]

I love DBZ but Yu Yu Hakusho is my favorite anime.

I don't keep up with Super I feel it is for the younger generation. I grew up with DBZ and that ending was satisfying for me. Just like I am sure some people that grew up with DB may have stopped when it ended.

 

[Thome216]

A lot of loose threads in this one. If they had left it with Barry simply losing his memory and the others taking up the slack, it would have been fine.
But Wally losing his speed and with no other repercussions that it signifies was a bad ball-drop.

Overall though, I liked it. Stupid moment with the court scene. They could have given him something that made him sick just as he reached the bench. The thought that no one noticed Malfoy punching away at his laptop was dufie, as well as a tiny drop of sweat shorting the glasses out.

But fun Barry was fun, and it was great seeing that side of the character again. I feel that the only time we see that side is when they do crossovers, which is a shame.

I know they are trying to show how tough it is for him, but give us more of Fun-Barry!

As for Caitlyn, I'm wondering if the persona of Killer Frost is beginning to lose its 'punch?' It may have been like a head rush when it came out, but I wonder, especially with how she was reacting to Cisco, if reality is starting to settle in? Maybe the reason why she's staying away from the others is not because she suddenly 'hates' them, but the KF personality is seeking self preservation. The easiest way to do that is to cut ties with Caitlyn's support system.

 

[legendkillin]

But fun Barry was fun, and it was great seeing that side of the character again. I feel that the only time we see that side is when they do crossovers, which is a shame.

I know they are trying to show how tough it is for him, but give us more of Fun-Barry!

Gustin kills it when Barry is lighthearted and care free.

 

[TheRedWraith]

Couldn't they stop Salvitar from existing by not shuning the time remnant in the future?

Yes, hence the stupidity in revealing who exactly he is and how he was created as it can now be easily averted.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I feel like the only scenes I saw were worth it were Grant's comedic chops with the amnesiac Barry, Killer Frost struggling with her inner Caitlin and seeing more of Savitar out of his suit. I hope to see more of Future Barry in the flesh because I love Grant playing evil just as much as I like the lighthearted Barry. A lot of this episode reminded me of Season 1. A grand season, I miss it every day.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Granted, this show was light on narrative weight, but the humor made me forget that. I actually had to pause my DVR to laugh for several minutes at "That's not a good name" before resuming. This season hasn't been as good as the first two, but it's certainly had its moments.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Season 2 was where it started to veer off in tone, the show runners seem to think that more drama means higher numbers. Consequently the season's demo has taken a dive, harder than Arrow's did. It's still popular but this episode proved, in many reviews, that people respect what has worked for the show. Flash was lighter than Arrow, now it's basically morphed into what Arrow's Season 3 turned into.

 

[Rowen]

This episode was great I really enjoyed the fun Barry instead of the serious Barry the court room scene was great I thought savatar was a demon instead of him being Barry in the future I wonder what the next evil villain speedster is going to be like.

 

[Dark Raven]

This episode was great I really enjoyed the fun Barry instead of the serious Barry the court room scene was great I thought savatar was a demon instead of him being Barry in the future I wonder what the next evil villain speedster is going to be like.

Boring and overused.

 

[Syncos]

I really liked the levity in this episode. It was fun.

That being said. The premise was stupid. Having Savitar forget who he was is absurd. He's from the future, so that would have assumed that Barry never got his memory back, a day later.

Cause and effect doesn't work that way, when the issue is corrected 20 minutes later.

 

[TheGearMan]

This episode just reminded me how much I wanna go back to season 1 and watch "fun Barry" again. Brooding Barry isn't my style.

 

[shabadoo25]

Season 2 was where it started to veer off in tone, the show runners seem to think that more drama means higher numbers. Consequently the season's demo has taken a dive, harder than Arrow's did. It's still popular but this episode proved, in many reviews, that people respect what has worked for the show. Flash was lighter than Arrow, now it's basically morphed into what Arrow's Season 3 turned into.

All of the CW shows have some issues they need to straighten out for next year.

Flash needs to go back to being lighter and no more speedster villains for awhile.

Supergirl needs to pare down some characters and make Kara and her journey the center of the show again.

Arrow needs another central narrative other than Oliver is driven to a mental deep, dark place by the season's big bad and OTA has to pull him out.

 

[metaphysician]

You know, I just had a hilarious/terrible idea for how to resolve(?) the Savitar plot. So, things happen pretty much as foreseen- Barry spawns time remnants, Savitars kills all but one, Savitar kills Iris, Savitar gets imprisoned. However, immediately afterwards. . . Barry steps up and, despite his grief, reaches out to his own temporal clone. He acts as the friend that alt-Barry needs, and refuses to let him be cast out for being "not real" or whatnot. Ultimately, he does some Earth-hopping, and finds an Earth that needs a hero. . . because the thing any Barry needs to overcome grief and despair is the knowledge that they matter, that there are people who need help.

Thus, Savitar never was born, and the Savitar trapped in the Speed Force. . . is still there, as a loose remnant with no past and no future, trapped forever. Iris is still dead, unfortunately. However! As one of the perks of having successfully untied the Savitar knot, they have some wiggle room. The heroes can't simply change their own immediate past. . . but Barry *is* now able to go back and modify things, a tad. Long story short, Iris' death is faked, albeit with her now stuck many years in the future for reasons.

 

[Dark Raven]

You know, I just had a hilarious/terrible idea for how to resolve(?) the Savitar plot. So, things happen pretty much as foreseen- Barry spawns time remnants, Savitars kills all but one, Savitar kills Iris, Savitar gets imprisoned. However, immediately afterwards. . . Barry steps up and, despite his grief, reaches out to his own temporal clone. He acts as the friend that alt-Barry needs, and refuses to let him be cast out for being "not real" or whatnot. Ultimately, he does some Earth-hopping, and finds an Earth that needs a hero. . . because the thing any Barry needs to overcome grief and despair is the knowledge that they matter, that there are people who need help.

Thus, Savitar never was born, and the Savitar trapped in the Speed Force. . . is still there, as a loose remnant with no past and no future, trapped forever. Iris is still dead, unfortunately. However! As one of the perks of having successfully untied the Savitar knot, they have some wiggle room. The heroes can't simply change their own immediate past. . . but Barry *is* now able to go back and modify things, a tad. Long story short, Iris' death is faked, albeit with her now stuck many years in the future for reasons.

But why would the time remnant agree to go to another earth? What if he argues that the non-time remnant Barry should go instead? Why should the remnant have to leave all his friends and family? And how would Team Flash be able to tell them apart anyway?

What if the original Barry were killed? Would the time remnant be still shunned, or would he take the place of the original Barry?

 

[TheGearMan]

And how would Team Flash be able to tell them apart anyway?

Yeah, that always confused me. Because, according to how time remnants work, they're both Barry. One is just a few minutes/seconds ahead in time of the other. Who is to say which is "fake" and which is "the original"?

 

[theflashionist]

I dont know about someone "faking" Iris's death... only way that would work is if Barry didnt know about it. Otherwise, savitar would know they switch Iris for someone else. Besides.. why not go in time kill the time remnant. Finito. Savitar gone... this is getting a bit boring...

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah, that always confused me. Because, according to how time remnants work, they're both Barry. One is just a few minutes/seconds ahead in time of the other. Who is to say which is "fake" and which is "the original"?

In Star Trek Voyager, most of the episodes had a "time remnant" of Harry Kim because the original one died early in the first season. He even questioned his own existence and if he was real or not. But he wasn't shunned by the crew. Same with Naomi Wildman who was also a remnant.

And how does Barry know he's not a remnant all this time?

 

[Headliner]

God this show is getting unbearable.

I still can't understand how Savitar came to be. I've watched the explanation three times now.

 

[Dark Raven]

God this show is getting unbearable.

I still can't understand how Savitar came to be. I've watched the explanation three times now.

It's one of the time remnants that Barry creates (or would have done) to fight Savitar in the season finale in two weeks' time. He creates several, but Savitar leaves one alive and that remnant survives but is shunned by the others. Then he runs back in time eventually and gathers followers and becomes the first speedster etc.

He's not a remnant from either last season in the fight against Zoom, or in a future battle with Savitar some years in the future.

 

[zenith16]

It's one of the time remnants that Barry creates (or would have done) to fight Savitar in the season finale in two weeks' time. He creates several, but Savitar leaves one alive and that remnant survives but is shunned by the others. Then he runs back in time eventually and gathers followers and becomes the first speedster etc.

He's not a remnant from either last season in the fight against Zoom, or in a future battle with Savitar some years in the future.

he may be one of those of us that no matter how you explain it. it won't make sense to him the fact that the word time Remanent is used so often is even the probelm for him. It's best to leave him alone .

it was some thing that cause trouble as it was last year. (they just should left to the multverse only last year.) til they put it up in their wikia. and they still can't even make up their minds on certain words. so it won't help him when the writers are so contradictive .

 

[Thome216]

I thought Remnants just went back to the time that they were pulled from. I missed the beginning of that ep, so didn't hear the full explanation, but there must have been something the Remnant didthat causes him to be shunned by people I would not imagine actually shunning any Barry!

The only way I could see it is if this Remnant started making a play for Iris, seeing as he would love her just as much as Prime Barry would. Now they may both be Barry, but that is still too far!

However, in the first season, Barry was reconciled with Iris being with Eddie, so it's hard to imagine that either!

Makes me with they had stayed true to the comic-cannon rather than creating their own.

 

[Dark Raven]

I thought Remnants just went back to the time that they were pulled from. I missed the beginning of that ep, so didn't hear the full explanation, but there must have been something the Remnant didthat causes him to be shunned by people I would not imagine actually shunning any Barry!

The only way I could see it is if this Remnant started making a play for Iris, seeing as he would love her just as much as Prime Barry would. Now they may both be Barry, but that is still too far!

However, in the first season, Barry was reconciled with Iris being with Eddie, so it's hard to imagine that either!

Makes me with they had stayed true to the comic-cannon rather than creating their own.

Wasn't Iris dead? Unless he's into dead girls.

This is the remnant from episode 23's season finale battle with Savitar.

He explained that he was simply considered an aberration and not the real Barry, which is why they shunned him.