The Flash The Flash season 3 episode 20 "I Know Who You Are"

[Dark Raven]

The problem is there is no way to tell which Barry he is dealing with. Did future Barry lie to Barry when Barry asked about Savitar ? Or is this Barry a Barry from an entirely different Earth therefore if thats the case the rules don't apply really. We simply dont have the whole story yet on which Barry this is or it is the same Barry that Barry met & he lied

Well, we know it's a Barry from Barry's own timeline, otherwise how would he know exactly what Barry knows?

It can't be Barry from an alternate earth, or he wouldn't posses the same knowledge, and it can't be Barry from an alternate timeline (even if it were just the last few months), because he would've lived a different life to the Barry we've seen live during this season.

But as I mentioned before, even if it were a Barry from Barry's own timeline, he shouldn't have such exact recollection of what happened. Do you from your own timeline remember exactly what you said or did and in what order even yesterday? Or earlier today? You might have a general gist of it, but not exact details with such precision.

 

[zenith16]

But as I mentioned before, even if it were a Barry from Barry's own timeline, he shouldn't have such exact recollection of what happened. Do you from your own timeline remember exactly what you said or did and in what order even yesterday? Or earlier today? You might have a general gist of it, but not exact details with such precision.

um Ebord answered your question in legends in doom word. the speedster;s do have that ability in the live action universe and so the the comic versions.
The Flash
New Earth

• Enhanced Mental Process: The Flash's mental abilities are also increased in speed, simple computations can be done at lightning speeds, and his ability to perform normal feats at increased speeds has allowed him to build hundreds of force field generators in a matter of minutes, move sandbags to cover a beach or search an entire area for something as small as a paper clip. Wally can also read at super-speed, but rarely takes advantage of this ability to learn at increased speeds, although Jay Garrick has done so and has become a jack of all trades in several disciplines and languages.

Bart Allen
Enhanced Mental Process

[FONT=&quot]: The Speed Force enhances Bart's mental capacity to levels greater than any normal human, allowing him to take in and process information at an accelerated rate. While most speedsters will eventually forget information they rapidly receive, Bart does not.[/FONT]​

also from

Speed Force

• 
  Memory Absorption: Professor Zoom is capable of using his negative electrical energy to absorb the memories of another person. This process will also rapidly age a person to their death.

 

[Dark Raven]

um Ebord answered your question in legends in doom word. the speedster;s do have that ability in the live action universe and so the the comic versions.
The Flash
New Earth

• Enhanced Mental Process: The Flash's mental abilities are also increased in speed, simple computations can be done at lightning speeds, and his ability to perform normal feats at increased speeds has allowed him to build hundreds of force field generators in a matter of minutes, move sandbags to cover a beach or search an entire area for something as small as a paper clip. Wally can also read at super-speed, but rarely takes advantage of this ability to learn at increased speeds, although Jay Garrick has done so and has become a jack of all trades in several disciplines and languages.

also from

Speed Force

• 
  Memory Absorption: Professor Zoom is capable of using his negative electrical energy to absorb the memories of another person. This process will also rapidly age a person to their death.

But that doesn't sound like it's to do with perfect memory recall. It just talks about increased intelligence allowing the speedster to perform more quickly (ie faster computations, speed reading etc).

And the memory absorption one doesn't sound like this is what has happened here. It sounds more like what Eobard Thawne did to Harrison Wells in Season 1 when he took over his identity and body and killed off the real Wells in the process. But where did Thawne have such perfect recall of every detail of Wells's life or his own?

I can understand increased performance based on speed because you can learn quicker, do things quicker etc. But how does that affect recalling memories from one's life? It says nothing of his speed ability giving him the power to record every moment of his life for easy review.

 

[zenith16]

But that doesn't sound like it's to do with perfect memory recall. It just talks about increased intelligence allowing the speedster to perform more quickly (ie faster computations, speed reading etc).

And the memory absorption one doesn't sound like this is what has happened here. It sounds more like what Eobard Thawne did to Harrison Wells in Season 1 when he took over his identity and body and killed off the real Wells in the process. But where did Thawne have such perfect recall of every detail of Wells's life or his own?

I can understand increased performance based on speed because you can learn quicker, do things quicker etc. But how does that affect recalling memories from one's life? It says nothing of his speed ability giving him the power to record every moment of his life for easy review.

well the did say in the wikia with each version and new earth the powers of the speed force user vary's. also as said in the show with legends Eobard says he retains his compared to normal humans. there most likely is a version of eobard the writers took that from . be sides there more then one eobard in the books with each new earth Dc reboots to.

and I wasn't looking at the prime one as they like to call it that they are currently writing .

 

[just one thing]

Was savitar spoon feeding barry to figure out his identity?

frost with the speech and all that.

If in savitars history barry figured out on that night then responded in a certain way they that lead to the point that savitar wants.

Barry can end it by doing an eddie or maybe thats what causes the face scar.

did future 2024 barry say he did not know who savitar was or that it was not important. Knowing he will kill iris after watching her die would set you on a down ward path. If he tells the team next week, cisco joe, jullian its possible they were lieing or the future changed. If he doesn't tell the team then his trajectory makes more sense and lasts weeks episode gets a bit better.

 

[zenith16]

Was savitar spoon feeding barry to figure out his identity?

frost with the speech and all that.

If in savitars history barry figured out on that night then responded in a certain way they that lead to the point that savitar wants.

Barry can end it by doing an eddie or maybe thats what causes the face scar.

did future 2024 barry say he did not know who savitar was or that it was not important. Knowing he will kill iris after watching her die would set you on a down ward path. If he tells the team next week, cisco joe, jullian its possible they were lieing or the future changed. If he doesn't tell the team then his trajectory makes more sense and lasts weeks episode gets a bit better.

he said he didn't know. he locked him way withthe device too with out finding out.

 

[TheGearMan]

So we learned that

Spoiler

Killer Frost left because she didn't trust Barry, only to immediately-- immediately-- trust future Barry.

 

[Gaultheria]

Of course, if they just had Martian Manhunter, he could pretend to be Iris and could trick Savitar that way.

Or, from the other direction: they defeat Savitar before that happens, and then they have to put on a performance to trick past-Barry so that he knows he saw Iris die, so that history plays out properly.

 

[Paradox1]

So we learned that

Spoiler

Killer Frost left because she didn't trust Barry, only to immediately-- immediately-- trust future Barry.

I don't think she left for that reason in particular. The reason she left has little to do with Barry more to do with Killer Frost. The team wants to kill that part of her and she doesn't want that.

 

[zenith16]

I don't think she left for that reason in particular. The reason she left has little to do with Barry more to do with Killer Frost. The team wants to kill that part of her and she doesn't want that.

when did they say they (the rest of the star lab team that support Barry )want to kill that side of her ?

what they said was she's not like this and they will help her her. they will help her. the point is they(the writers) keep saying (through her ) that her powers are the cause . but what it looks in reality is that she needs a psychologist and for her personality to be amalgamated.

And that mean both side are accepted But fist for most it has to be show t that t his isn't about the powers. but something deeper with her personal life from her family from when she was child which they threw out . there the issue over push with her possible having brother and the thing they also refuse look deep into is what went on with her that that he's missing to day & how'd it happen?


until that 's shown she can't heal . none of them at star labs said they want to kill any part of her except may be Caitlin her self and she didn't even word that way ether. this is the problem people are having . when she speak or say these it come of to the people that for all you have people in their family or live that have this disorder and see other portray which they found done better even with powers involved done in better way that was relocatable and hit the right cord. she doing her self here. (and it not hitting the cord) not one of them said that or even ventured thought wise.

the actress performance is fine she doing awesome with what she's given. which shows how talented she is. The writing team reason is falling apart cause they are doing weird rush jobs and throwing out things that audience will understand and the audience want to yes to what they are doing . but the writers are putting them selves into a corner.

if they use what happened to her "possible brother" which may have bee so trmatic she created persona she for got about in her adult hook and the with her father this will be fine. They had the perfect set up with the brother which over pushed and father and they threw it out. << they threw it out. To scream it's the powers with in the show. We want the writers team to do well and complement her performance.


It shouldn't be read any other way then this

 

[TheGearMan]

I don't think she left for that reason in particular. The reason she left has little to do with Barry more to do with Killer Frost. The team wants to kill that part of her and she doesn't want that.

I can see how you'd think that, but here's a quote from the actress herself:
"Killer Frost was inside of her &#8212; and I think that was a Flashpoint consequence &#8212; and we saw in episode seven you see a little of her anger at Barry (Gustin) for doing this to her. In that sense it&#8217;s a little tragic because this isn&#8217;t what Caitlin Snow wanted. On the other hand, Killer Frost is thrilled so it&#8217;s also exciting."

So yeah, she's angry at Barry.

And then in the same interview, when asked about Killer Frost finding out who Savitar is:
"It&#8217;s someone not foreign to her, so she has loyalty to this person very quickly. Once the viewers find out who Savitar is it makes sense why Caitlin wants to work for him, and is so quick to support him."

That just makes no sense at all.

 

[mqg96]

I can see how you'd think that, but here's a quote from the actress herself:
"Killer Frost was inside of her &#8212; and I think that was a Flashpoint consequence &#8212; and we saw in episode seven you see a little of her anger at Barry (Gustin) for doing this to her. In that sense it&#8217;s a little tragic because this isn&#8217;t what Caitlin Snow wanted. On the other hand, Killer Frost is thrilled so it&#8217;s also exciting."

So yeah, she's angry at Barry.

And then in the same interview, when asked about Killer Frost finding out who Savitar is:
"It&#8217;s someone not foreign to her, so she has loyalty to this person very quickly. Once the viewers find out who Savitar is it makes sense why Caitlin wants to work for him, and is so quick to support him."

That just makes no sense at all.

A lot of people overthink why Caitlin's powers make her evil, it's really simple, it's cold metahuman powers, and look up the emotional definitions of cold, frigid, icy, and (bi)polar in the dictionary including the synonyms. This affects her brain chemistry and makes her cold hearted. When Caitlin was with her mom on 3x05, we could see that her heat/energy absorption causes her emotions to lash out (she had a mean possessed look on her face), just like her comic book counterpart as a heat vampire. Guys, we're not talking characteristics that describe speedsters, vibrations, or screaming canaries here. We're talking about a character who has the cold metahuman DNA having an affect on her body physically and psychologically. It brings out the darkness and negative emotions Caitlin Snow has suppressed.

 

[zenith16]

A lot of people overthink why Caitlin's powers make her evil, it's really simple, it's cold metahuman powers, and look up the emotional definitions of cold, frigid, icy, and (bi)polar in the dictionary including the synonyms. This affects her brain chemistry and makes her cold hearted. When Caitlin was with her mom on 3x05, we could see that her heat/energy absorption causes her emotions to lash out (she had a mean possessed look on her face), just like her comic book counterpart as a heat vampire. Guys, we're not talking characteristics that describe speedsters, vibrations, or screaming canaries here. We're talking about a character who has the cold metahuman DNA having an affect on her body physically and psychologically. It brings out the darkness and negative emotions Caitlin Snow has suppressed.

except barry said it not that way and she came out it, (she came out of it) and so did her mother. if the listened to them then it has nothing to do with her powers.

no were not over thinking it it's just not buyable . it has not thing to do with her power. she's making it that way by saying it's her powers. she stops her self even as killer frost from killing her close friend and family. so it's bull.

Should like what went down like the hulk and others that was a better told stories where it wasn't their power it was past event in their child hood that are the cause and it's coming out in their powers. thnot the power incontrol of the personality. sadly onthe show the writers keep pushing it's powers and they threw out the real cause that may have to do with iyt all . what happened in her family does she have brother in earth one? like her alternate in earth 2 ? why was that so heavy handed the season before? they should show the details of that and what happened to her dad as well . '


if she suppressed thing's as child to her adult hood and when into need of comfort it 'll explain the split personality better and killer frost is defense mechanism that she forgot about along with her problems of possible brother and her dad.

instead of this thing that's baffling other's that may actually kknow some with something like that have connection some how or have see better portrayal's .
it was in the hulk comic's it was done among pothers and people continue to write psychological paper's with them . of all things

again we do want the writer to do well too. but they have stop throwing thing they introduced away. when it'll explain thing's better for bad explanations. and the audience will be fine with them.

We are part of that audience. we want them to do well . we can't keep enabling them. some time we'll let certian things slid but other's like this we know they can do better .

The actress is doing too much of the work with awesome acting . But the writers need to complement her work with a better explanation.

 

[Eni]

Well, that was... garbage. I feared that they would pull that stupid plot from the comics, well, at least evil-future Barry fits with the Barry from the show, but, seriously, it's still just so lazy.
I'm happy for anybody who can enjoy the romance-drama crap they put into this series, I wish I could, it would be less irritating for me that way.
Let's see whether they can 'cure' Caitlin from her evil side - still such a stupid concept of the bad part of her consciousness being connected to her powers. At least the fight was neat for the most port.
Such a dissapointing episode, and reveal as a whole. I really hoped they would go with something less contrived.

 

[flashpo1nt]

obviously the writers use elements from the comics but don't follow it exactly.

savitar in the comics is a totally different villain, not a future version of barry allen.

also in the comics future barry allen is a good guy not a villain.

Some things that could be clues....thawne warned barry about altering timelines, the last time they met he warned him things will now be changed in his present timeline....zoom made comments about the darkness inside, letting it out.

i think barry turning into savitar could be from 2017 barry creating flashpoint and by creating flashpoint it created a version of barry allen that turns evil for whatever reason.

I assume 2024 barry didn't figure out who savitar was, now we can say maybe he was decieving 2017 barry and just not telling him....like when barry first met cisco he couldn't say why he was there cisco had to remind himself about how it could change things.

my guess is all the digging 2017 barry is doing helped him figure out who savitar is and that 2024 barry took different paths in his timeline....meaning the major outcomes/events came true but how they got there was different choices/decisions...like 2017 barry has the device with the research on trapping savitar in the speedforce something 2024 barry didn't get until 4 years ago.

we'll have to wait and see how they explain the backstory of savitar but the easy solution is having him from the future from a different earth or say that when barry created flashpoint he created savitar by him running back in time he altered the timeline not only creating flashpoint but creating a future evil version of himself. these are just thoughts.

 

[Thome216]

Future Barry said he created time remnants that all were defeated trying to stop Savitar, could one of them have ended up becoming Savitar? They did include the time remnant line in the little flashback montage of Barry piecing things together. Could explain the injuries present on Savitar's face, and why he's so mad at Flash, as well as why future Barry from the episode prior to this wasn't evil.

Actually, it was Future Cisco who said most of the remnants were killed...

when did they say they (the rest of the star lab team that support Barry )want to kill that side of her ?

Caitlin has expressed the desire to not be Killer Frost, and when they had her down, Cisco took some of her blood (as KF) so they could find a way to cure her.

So they do want to get rid of Killer Frost.

I just wish that when they had her unconscious they had slapped one of those inhibitors on her!

A lot of people overthink why Caitlin's powers make her evil, it's really simple, it's cold metahuman powers, and look up the emotional definitions of cold, frigid, icy, and (bi)polar in the dictionary including the synonyms. This affects her brain chemistry and makes her cold hearted. When Caitlin was with her mom on 3x05, we could see that her heat/energy absorption causes her emotions to lash out (she had a mean possessed look on her face), just like her comic book counterpart as a heat vampire. Guys, we're not talking characteristics that describe speedsters, vibrations, or screaming canaries here. We're talking about a character who has the cold metahuman DNA having an affect on her body physically and psychologically. It brings out the darkness and negative emotions Caitlin Snow has suppressed.

I've said something similar and I'll go with that.

There's no better explanation and just a lot of questions otherwise. What was the reason given in the comics?

As for curing her, I think the only way they can do that is to completely destroy her metahuman powers.

 

[Dark Raven]

Actually, it was Future Cisco who said most of the remnants were killed...



Caitlin has expressed the desire to not be Killer Frost, and when they had her down, Cisco took some of her blood (as KF) so they could find a way to cure her.

So they do want to get rid of Killer Frost.

I just wish that when they had her unconscious they had slapped one of those inhibitors on her!



I've said something similar and I'll go with that.

There's no better explanation and just a lot of questions otherwise. What was the reason given in the comics?

As for curing her, I think the only way they can do that is to completely destroy her metahuman powers.

That's what I thought they would do, and ought to be the first course of action rather than taking her blood. If she had the inhibitor, she could turn back into regular Caitlin. But they have to find a way to prolong this so they behave in an unintelligent way.

 

[metaphysician]

Can Barry create a time remnant of Iris? Or can he only do that of himself? If he could, he could just allow Savitar to kill that version.

Based on what they've shown on the various shows about time travel, I don't think Barry could make a time remnant of another person. Or rather, he *could*. . . but neither they nor the surrounding world would be insulated against the resulting paradoxes. It'd be bad juju all around.

Plus, Savitar could probably just go and kill all the versions you spammed out, so now instead of having one dead Iris, you have two. Not an improvement.

 

[metaphysician]

The problem is there is no way to tell which Barry he is dealing with. Did future Barry lie to Barry when Barry asked about Savitar ? Or is this Barry a Barry from an entirely different Earth therefore if thats the case the rules don't apply really. We simply dont have the whole story yet on which Barry this is or it is the same Barry that Barry met & he lied

We do have one clue to work with: there was no hint of Savitar prior to Flashpoint. That heavily suggests that Savitar's "origin" is in an alternate future, one that didn't normally arise from Barry's timeline.

 

[metaphysician]

I don't think she left for that reason in particular. The reason she left has little to do with Barry more to do with Killer Frost. The team wants to kill that part of her and she doesn't want that.

I think that's granting Killer Frost more coherency of motive than is warranted. She left because "I'ma evil now". She sided with Savitar because "I'ma evil now".

 

[Dark Raven]

We do have one clue to work with: there was no hint of Savitar prior to Flashpoint. That heavily suggests that Savitar's "origin" is in an alternate future, one that didn't normally arise from Barry's timeline.

But the alternate Barry that arises out of Flashpoint is effectively a different person living a different life. How can he know all of 2017 Barry's history, because he won't have experienced it himself? He could only know that if he came directly from the future of 2017 Barry's timeline.

 

[Paradox1]

when did they say they (the rest of the star lab team that support Barry )want to kill that side of her ?

what they said was she's not like this and they will help her her. they will help her. the point is they(the writers) keep saying (through her ) that her powers are the cause . but what it looks in reality is that she needs a psychologist and for her personality to be amalgamated.

And that mean both side are accepted But fist for most it has to be show t that t his isn't about the powers. but something deeper with her personal life from her family from when she was child which they threw out . there the issue over push with her possible having brother and the thing they also refuse look deep into is what went on with her that that he's missing to day & how'd it happen?


until that 's shown she can't heal . none of them at star labs said they want to kill any part of her except may be Caitlin her self and she didn't even word that way ether. this is the problem people are having . when she speak or say these it come of to the people that for all you have people in their family or live that have this disorder and see other portray which they found done better even with powers involved done in better way that was relocatable and hit the right cord. she doing her self here. (and it not hitting the cord) not one of them said that or even ventured thought wise.

the actress performance is fine she doing awesome with what she's given. which shows how talented she is. The writing team reason is falling apart cause they are doing weird rush jobs and throwing out things that audience will understand and the audience want to yes to what they are doing . but the writers are putting them selves into a corner.

if they use what happened to her "possible brother" which may have bee so trmatic she created persona she for got about in her adult hook and the with her father this will be fine. They had the perfect set up with the brother which over pushed and father and they threw it out. << they threw it out. To scream it's the powers with in the show. We want the writers team to do well and complement her performance.


It shouldn't be read any other way then this

They want to cure Caitlin of her ice powers that turn her into Killer Frost. Curing her kills Killer Frost, it's Dr. Jeykill and Mr. Hyde.

 

[Golgo-13]

Eventhough the reveal was not a big shock, it was still nice seeing it play out on screen.

 

[zenith16]

Caitlin has expressed the desire to not be Killer Frost, and when they had her down, Cisco took some of her blood (as KF) so they could find a way to cure her.

So they do want to get rid of Killer Frost.

I think those are gonna be nano machine version of the necklaces crytal

I just wish that when they had her unconscious they had slapped one of those inhibitors on her!

this is why I still want them to make extra cuff bracelets and cisco had to mean's to make more and keep them charged and rotate them while she still had the necklaces on her self .

I've said something similar and I'll go with that.

There's no better explanation and just a lot of questions otherwise. What was the reason given in the comics?

she 's just a meta human heat seeking vampire and was forced to take heat from other's. she wouldn't harm any one other was the only cure was ronnies heat. The other two former killer frost's befor her though, did hunt other humans but they were already unstable mentally prior to their mutations and one was in love with professor stein and when he rejected she went nuts on him and all men.


[FONT=&quot]The name was originally used by [/FONT]Crystal Frost[FONT=&quot], <<: Click for more info a [/FONT]Hudson University[FONT=&quot] student who angrily hated men. Her successor was [/FONT]Louise Lincoln[FONT=&quot], [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]<<: Click for more info also [/FONT]a friend who took up the mantle after her death. After the [/FONT]New 52[FONT=&quot] relaunch, [/FONT]Caitlin Snow << bios there [FONT=&quot]was introduced as the first to take the name in the new timeline[/FONT]

source:[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]Crystal Frost


[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Louise Lincoln
New Earth[/FONT]

 

[Spider-Aziz]

After finally cooling out from that revelation, I think it's a nice way for Barry to come to that conclusion, for an idea as ridiculous as that.