The Flash The Flash Season 4 Episode 2: "Mixed Signals"

[Justin]

Sometimes I feel like the entire Arrowverse is spearheaded by misguided and extreme feminists who only know how to write strong female characters at the expense of other characters.

With all due respect your posts are really coming across as whining and a little sexist and offensive. You said yourself you haven’t bothered to watch the episode so I don’t really see why you feel so strongly about this.

Also on the ‘loss to Barry’s character’ how is Iris giving him instructions any different to Cisco, Harry, Harrison, Jay, HR doing the exact same thing? Just because she is a woman? Because she’s black maybe? Barry hasn’t beaten any opponent without someone advising him, in all seasons. You just seem to have a thing about Iris.

 

[Justin]

On topic it was a fun episode and I’m liking this season more than S3 so far. The thinker is interesting and while it’s easy to say there’s filler, I wonder how much of this is foreshadowing. Like that the symbols Barry wrote on the wall are in The Thinkers lair and why he wants this guy in iron heights. This could potentially be a really really good main story arc this season.. Going to give it the benefit of the doubt for a bit.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Also on the ‘loss to Barry’s character’ how is Iris giving him instructions any different to Cisco, Harry, Harrison, Jay, HR doing the exact same thing? Just because she is a woman? Because she’s black maybe? Barry hasn’t beaten any opponent without someone advising him, in all seasons. You just seem to have a thing about Iris.

Herolee is definitely a bit whiny but THIS? Is taking what he said and trying really hard to be offended.

The difference is her background as a character.
The other characters you mentioned are actually qualified to give Barry instructions.
They're all scientists or speedsters.
What is Iris?

 

[Justin]

Herolee is definitely a bit whiny but THIS? Is taking what he said and trying really hard to be offended.

The difference is her background as a character.
The other characters you mentioned are actually qualified to give Barry instructions.
They're all scientists or speedsters.
What is Iris?

I don’t know him, I just see one guy posting about 6-7 times, trying to get people to agree with him when a) they don’t and b) he hasn’t even watched it. To feel that strongly about something and to keep bringing up agendas feminism and PC tends to suggest a bigot of some sort.

And your argument here doesn’t really hold. Yes they are specialists in certain fields but Cisco and Jay aside they aren’t superheroes or fighters or qualified instructors. The argument should be that Barry shouldn’t have to rely on advisers to deal with low level metahumans but instead it’s that Barry is relying on the black female.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

And your argument here doesn’t really hold. Yes they are specialists in certain fields but Cisco and Jay aside they aren’t superheroes or fighters or qualified instructors. The argument should be that Barry shouldn’t have to rely on advisers to deal with low level metahumans but instead it’s that Barry is relying on the black female.

The advice they give him comes from what they know from being specialists in those certain fields though.
Cisco made the suit but Iris had the solution when it was hacked.
Does that really seem right to you?

but instead it’s that Barry is relying on the black female.

It's really not
Stop

 

[Justin]

The advice they give him comes from what they know from being specialists in those certain fields though.
Cisco made the suit but Iris had the solution when it was hacked.
Does that really seem right to you?

Stop

Yet no one would mention it if the advice came from HR who was not a specialist in any sense of the word. Also there was logic behind it.. the experts were worried about his heart stopping or him getting hurt while iris believed in him.

Also while I’m sure you are just being a nerd, the other guy keeps mentioning feminists, PC etc etc, which is basically sexism 101. Stop covering for him, it’s wrong.

 

[Herolee10]

With all due respect your posts are really coming across as whining and a little sexist and offensive. You said yourself you haven’t bothered to watch the episode so I don’t really see why you feel so strongly about this.

Also on the ‘loss to Barry’s character’ how is Iris giving him instructions any different to Cisco, Harry, Harrison, Jay, HR doing the exact same thing? Just because she is a woman? Because she’s black maybe? Barry hasn’t beaten any opponent without someone advising him, in all seasons. You just seem to have a thing about Iris.

I have actually seen several clips/scenes from the episode already.

And no, me being upset with Barry receiving instructions from Iris has nothing to do with her gender or race. If Iris had been established as someone who had actual knowledge in this line of work, along with several years of experience in dealing with these problems then I wouldn't have any issue with her new role in the group.

Iris being presented as the new leader of team flash or this whole "we are the flash" is just a joke imho. Not only does she lack the qualifications to do any of that but her personality sucks at times.

And the difference between her and most of the characters listed in your post is that they were either experts in their field and that Barry was a rookie when he was receiving most of their tips in the past.

Hell, even if Vixen packed the qualifications when it comes the scientific part of doing this job, she would still have the maturity and years of field experience to compensate for it.

Iris went from being a barista to a tabloid reporter, who only received her position because of her relationship with the Flash and has spent most of the show's history of being a damsel in distress.

And she has some of the worst forced drama moments that I have ever seen in a character from this universe.

She made a big deal about Eddie not sharing every little secret with her in season 1 and made him feel like crap for it and when Barry comes back from the speed force, she is suddenly pissed at him for having left her in the first place when the only reason why he had to l3ave was to save the planet.

And she really doesn't have any right to say the whole "we are the Flash" line either. No spouse should claim the hard work their signficiant other as their own simply because they are married to them.

And the other Arrow shows have the same problem. Look at how they handled Supergirl beating Superman or a lot of Felicity's remarks and treatment towards men in season 4.

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah, the core problem with "Iris as Leader" is that she has no plausible ability in that regard. We've *seen* her for three seasons, seen what she has in terms of competency and character. And its. . . just not the makings of a leader.

She's supposed to be a leader. . . because the script says so. Not because the story actually justifies or sells it. And so it serves as an utterly unearned plot purpose, which is no better than having no place in the plot at all.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Fun episode.
Liked the villain.

it?

I thought it was a nice touch that he didn't have a costume. His M.O. was simple and his look matched that. The episode was a very well-constructed revenge story.

 

[Lantern Venom]

And she really doesn't have any right to say the whole "we are the Flash" line either. No spouse should claim the hard work their signficiant other as their own simply because they are married to them.

.

That line acts under the same principle as an individual sport like gymnastics, boxing, wrestling, or racing. Even though the athlete performs on his or her own, he or she can't achieve greatness without the wisdom of the coach or the work of his or her training partners.

 

[Herolee10]

That line acts under the same principle as an individual sport like gymnastics, boxing, wrestling, or racing. Even though the athlete performs on his or her own, he or she can't achieve greatness without the wisdom of the coach or the work of his or her training partners.

Perhaps, but the issue here is that Iris is not really someone that should or is qualified to be considered as one that a coach to Barry that imparts "wisdom" to him when it comes to being the Flash.

 

[spiderman2]

Awesome episode EXCEPT for Iris who has officially reached Felicity Arrow season 4 levels of annoying. I can't believe she got mad at Barry for not asking her before entering the speed force... the entire world was literally crumbling apart!! She puts her own emotions before the fate of the entire world. Oh and "We are The Flash" makes no sense whatsoever... imagine if Felicity said "we are the Green Arrow", or Mon-El said "we are Supergirl"... it's just dumb and delusional. The way that Barry always ends up agreeing with and apologising to Iris even when he was clearly in the right is giving me major Oliver season 4 vibes too.

She also made Barry throw a lightning bolt at himself even though she knows nothing about science, and Cisco and Caitlin (both genius scientists) said it would probably kill him. She should've waited for Cisco or Caitlin to come up with something instead of rushing into a plan which realistically should have probably cost him his life.

The fact he couldn't just take the suit off was stupid. So you are telling me that he can speed and get the suit on really fast but cant just simple take off the suit?

 

[Lantern Venom]

Perhaps, but the issue here is that Iris is not really someone that should or is qualified to be considered as one that a coach to Barry that imparts "wisdom" to him when it comes to being the Flash.

Cisco, Caitlin, and Wally weren't exactly combat veterans prior to the particle accelerator explosion, but they've never been shy about giving Barry advice. Iris is just as intelligent as those three and brave enough to go into the Speed Force and pull Barry out last season. She's a journalist who knows the city well and the daughter of a cop, both of which have enhanced her perceptions of certain situations. Why wouldn't Barry value her opinions?

 

[spiderman2]

I have actually seen several clips/scenes from the episode already.

And no, me being upset with Barry receiving instructions from Iris has nothing to do with her gender or race. If Iris had been established as someone who had actual knowledge in this line of work, along with several years of experience in dealing with these problems then I wouldn't have any issue with her new role in the group.

Iris being presented as the new leader of team flash or this whole "we are the flash" is just a joke imho. Not only does she lack the qualifications to do any of that but her personality sucks at times.

And the difference between her and most of the characters listed in your post is that they were either experts in their field and that Barry was a rookie when he was receiving most of their tips in the past.

Hell, even if Vixen packed the qualifications when it comes the scientific part of doing this job, she would still have the maturity and years of field experience to compensate for it.

Iris went from being a barista to a tabloid reporter, who only received her position because of her relationship with the Flash and has spent most of the show's history of being a damsel in distress.

And she has some of the worst forced drama moments that I have ever seen in a character from this universe.

She made a big deal about Eddie not sharing every little secret with her in season 1 and made him feel like crap for it and when Barry comes back from the speed force, she is suddenly pissed at him for having left her in the first place when the only reason why he had to l3ave was to save the planet.

And she really doesn't have any right to say the whole "we are the Flash" line either. No spouse should claim the hard work their signficiant other as their own simply because they are married to them.

And the other Arrow shows have the same problem. Look at how they handled Supergirl beating Superman or a lot of Felicity's remarks and treatment towards men in season 4.

 

[confused]

I have actually seen several clips/scenes from the episode already.

And no, me being upset with Barry receiving instructions from Iris has nothing to do with her gender or race. If Iris had been established as someone who had actual knowledge in this line of work, along with several years of experience in dealing with these problems then I wouldn't have any issue with her new role in the group.

Iris being presented as the new leader of team flash or this whole "we are the flash" is just a joke imho. Not only does she lack the qualifications to do any of that but her personality sucks at times.

And the difference between her and most of the characters listed in your post is that they were either experts in their field and that Barry was a rookie when he was receiving most of their tips in the past.

Hell, even if Vixen packed the qualifications when it comes the scientific part of doing this job, she would still have the maturity and years of field experience to compensate for it.

Iris went from being a barista to a tabloid reporter, who only received her position because of her relationship with the Flash and has spent most of the show's history of being a damsel in distress.


She made a big deal about Eddie not sharing every little secret with her in season 1 and made him feel like crap for it and when Barry comes back from the speed force, she is suddenly pissed at him for having left her in the first place when the only reason why he had to leave was to save the planet.

And she really doesn't have any right to say the whole "we are the Flash" line either. No spouse should claim the hard work their signficiant other as their own simply because they are married to them.

And the other Arrow shows have the same problem. Look at how they handled Supergirl beating Superman or a lot of Felicity's remarks and treatment towards men in season 4.

I thought I was just imagining things but it seems there are others who notice this trend.

 

[confused]

Cisco, Caitlin, and Wally weren't exactly combat veterans prior to the particle accelerator explosion, but they've never been shy about giving Barry advice. Iris is just as intelligent as those three and brave enough to go into the Speed Force and pull Barry out last season. She's a journalist who knows the city well and the daughter of a cop, both of which have enhanced her perceptions of certain situations. Why wouldn't Barry value her opinions?

I think the issue here was that the show/writers were forcing the scene/situation just so Iris could be the one to offer up the solution.

Why not Dr.Caitlin, who happens to have experience in human/meta biology?
Who presumably has researched the Flash's abilities more than Iris?

Why not Cisco, who can vibe/teleport?
Who actually made the suit?
Who is supposedly an intelligent scientist/engineer/metahuman with a lot more experience to know lightning might short-circuit(?) the new suit?
Incidentally, why make a computerized new suit that is vulnerable to generated lightning/electricity (aka tasers/bad weather/villlains/the SpeedForce?!) ?

Why not Detective Joe West?
Who is a cop with quite the experience in Central City?
Who presumably has seen/heard/witnessed/experienced lightning short-circuiting(?) technology?

Why not Wally?
Who actually has the SpeedForce?
Who might have trained with speed-lightning at some point?
Who could actually think as fast as a speedster should?

And last but not least, WHY NOT THE FLASH HIMSELF?
Who is no slouch in the wisdom/intelligence department?
Who actually has used/received/been hit-by speed-lightning before?
Who is supposed to think as fast as a speedster/lightning?
After 3 years as a speedster?!

 

[javonstokess]

I didn't really have a problem with Iris being the one to figure it out other than it came across as kinda cheesy.

Other than that, Iris turning into the de facto leader of "Team Flash" makes sense if you think about it this way:

Iris had to find something to help her "move on" from Barry after he went in the Speed force, so she's seemingly ends up as the voice of common sense amongst scatterbrained scientists, laidback speedsters and uptight police officers. While I can admit that it's a bit of a weird fit because we missed out on the process that got us from point a to point b because it all happened between the finale and premiere. She found this leadership gave her a sense of purpose.

In regards to the episode in question, her suggestion was shot down by the scientists because they didn't want to take the risk based on data/facts, but Iris clearly runs of instinct. This time her instincts won out. Maybe in the future, they don't. Either way, it's not like the others weren't trying to figure the issue out, it's just Iris thought outside of the box.

The only issue I can see people having is that the show's creators skipped SHOWING her development from damsel in distress to leader; though they have been kinda moving towards this for awhile and even foreshadowed it in last season's Flashpoint season premiere.

Now her whole issue with being upset that Barry went into the speed force, that's just irrational feelings that we all get from time to time. We know they are illogical, but we can't help for feel that way.

 

[Frodo]

I appreciate that Iris really doesn't have the qualifications that the others have , but ultimately I see her as a motivator and a rock more than anything else.

For me its not a big deal , and that's because I'm not turned off by her character the way I was in the first season. I'm fine with her serving the function she is now.

I do think the writers did quite a bit of damage to her character in season one ,and made it difficult for alot of fans to really like her, which was a concern I expressed at the time.

Had they gotten her right from day one , and made her personality more along the lines of Patty Spivot or Linda Park, I suspect alot of the opinions about her would be different today.

 

[igoogol]

The problem with Iris is the same problem it's always been. Stretching out a very limited character at the expense of other characters and the show in general. The only way any of this can work is if they're planning to turn this into The Iris Show; but since they're not (yet), she remains clunkily out of place.

Whether it's the team or Iris, it doesn't matter. For them to be relevant, Barry has to be ineffective and stupid which is not what a superhero should be. So the show having Iris lead and have the answers isn't better, it's still the same s***.

 

[Frodo]

I really don't see the producers trying to make her as the center of the show. They're trying to make her character useful because they didn't in the first season, but I don't see it as too much Iris or her taking up to much space.

Its still and has always been Grant Gustin's show. If you hadn't casted Gustin , they wouldn't have had a show.

That's not taking anything away from the other actors on the series , but he's the one who grabs the audiences attention and he's carried several of the weak episodes the writers have churned out .

 

[igoogol]

[FONT=&quot]This isn't about the actors, it's about the characters. And Barry has been a figurehead most of S2 and since. The attention he's getting is the Flash is a lame butted superhero because he depends on his girlfriend and a team to get through the day. No amount of good acting can hide shoddy writing that's propping up a character.

I don't see it as too much Iris or her taking up to much space.

Well, yeah, why would you?
[/FONT]

 

[kane9321]

Can iris just go away and never come back
she brings nothing to the team...shes annoying..
wtf like shes the de facto leader of the team...PLEASE

 

[Dark Raven]

Another highlight of this episode.

Caitlin's legs

Definitely a highlight. She looked hot.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I think the issue here was that the show/writers were forcing the scene/situation just so Iris could be the one to offer up the solution.

Why not Dr.Caitlin, who happens to have experience in human/meta biology?
Who presumably has researched the Flash's abilities more than Iris?

Why not Cisco, who can vibe/teleport?
Who actually made the suit?
Who is supposedly an intelligent scientist/engineer/metahuman with a lot more experience to know lightning might short-circuit(?) the new suit?
Incidentally, why make a computerized new suit that is vulnerable to generated lightning/electricity (aka tasers/bad weather/villlains/the SpeedForce?!) ?

Why not Detective Joe West?
Who is a cop with quite the experience in Central City?
Who presumably has seen/heard/witnessed/experienced lightning short-circuiting(?) technology?

Why not Wally?
Who actually has the SpeedForce?
Who might have trained with speed-lightning at some point?
Who could actually think as fast as a speedster should?

And last but not least, WHY NOT THE FLASH HIMSELF?
Who is no slouch in the wisdom/intelligence department?
Who actually has used/received/been hit-by speed-lightning before?
Who is supposed to think as fast as a speedster/lightning?
After 3 years as a speedster?!

Of course Joe would be more qualified, but he's got an all-consuming job. Barry is more capable of acting on his own than he was in Seasons 1&2, but he's currently getting reoriented to the world, as was evidenced by forcing that car down a road with ongoing construction. She was the key element that brought him out of the post-Speed Force disorientation, so it's perfectly logical that he's looking to her as his touchstone.

I didn't really have a problem with Iris being the one to figure it out other than it came across as kinda cheesy.

Other than that, Iris turning into the de facto leader of "Team Flash" makes sense if you think about it this way:

Iris had to find something to help her "move on" from Barry after he went in the Speed force, so she's seemingly ends up as the voice of common sense amongst scatterbrained scientists, laidback speedsters and uptight police officers. While I can admit that it's a bit of a weird fit because we missed out on the process that got us from point a to point b because it all happened between the finale and premiere. She found this leadership gave her a sense of purpose.

In regards to the episode in question, her suggestion was shot down by the scientists because they didn't want to take the risk based on data/facts, but Iris clearly runs of instinct. This time her instincts won out.

That's the key part of why she's becoming the "leader" of the group, although I'm not sure that is a completely accurate word. Despite their respective intelligences, Cisco, Caitlin, and Wally aren't as self-assured as Iris. She's willing to act decisively while the others are still debating the pros and cons.

 

[javonstokess]

Agreed. "Leader" might be too strong a word.

Organizer, maybe? Manager? That's essentially what she's been doing so far. Everyone takes their lead from Barry, but she's been managing the minutia of keeping the team together while also being the one to think "outside the box" in certain areas where the science heads are stuck in their numbers.