The Guns thread - Part 1

[Donner]

And the facts do seem to support his claim

Her. And no, they don't. I already pointed this out to you in another thread but since it didn't seem to stick:

https://www.snopes.com/democrat-shooters-list/

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

And the facts do seem to support his claim

No. They don't. You are choosing to believe what is essentially a lie. And you are choosing to believe it despite being shown evidence to the contrary.

 

[Teelie]

There is no point in using logic, facts or reasoning with him. The conspiracy worm has dug too far into his brain to let him see anything but wildly implausible and impossible conspiracies everywhere.

 

[Schlosser85]

And the facts do seem to support his claim

How about, instead of repeating already easily refuted politically-motivated lies, you make an effort to engage in the discussion with a modicum of honesty and integrity.

 

[FunkMiller]

I've been watching this whole latest gun debate from the safety of a country with sensible gun controls, and - like a majority of the planet - I cannot get my head around this obsession some Americans have with their guns.

All I can see is a lot of people acting like children, because somebody wants to take their toys away. It's as simple as that.

In the UK, we banned a vast majority of guns after Dunblane and we've never had another school shooting. The Australians had the same result after Port Arthur. It's insane that people can't understand that less guns means less gun deaths.

The worst thing for most Americans is that the rest of the world thinks you're a laughing stock. The overwhelming stupidity on display from anyone who is pro-gun just brings the rest of the nation down.

This latest idiocy about arming teachers is incredible. The idea that a history teacher could successfully engage a heavily armed shooter in close quarter combat is laughable. Even highly trained specialists would likely do no good in that situation.

The whole attitude of Americans about their guns was exemplified for me when I went clay pigeon shooting a few years ago, and two Americans turned up, all full of bluster about how great they were, because they come from a country where guns are celebrated and loved. They had easily the most expensive looking shotguns that day.

None of them shot above 30 on a round of 50. It was pathetic.

The world sees America's obsession with guns the same way we see a child's obsession with a shiny toy. Time to grow up.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I've been watching this whole latest gun debate from the safety of a country with sensible gun controls, and - like a majority of the planet - I cannot get my head around this obsession some Americans have with their guns.

All I can see is a lot of people acting like children, because somebody wants to take their toys away. It's as simple as that.

In the UK, we banned a vast majority of guns after Dunblane and we've never had another school shooting. The Australians had the same result after Port Arthur. It's insane that people can't understand that less guns means less gun deaths.

The worst thing for most Americans is that the rest of the world thinks you're a laughing stock. The overwhelming stupidity on display from anyone who is pro-gun just brings the rest of the nation down.

This latest idiocy about arming teachers is incredible. The idea that a history teacher could successfully engage a heavily armed shooter in close quarter combat is laughable. Even highly trained specialists would likely do no good in that situation.

The whole attitude of Americans about their guns was exemplified for me when I went clay pigeon shooting a few years ago, and two Americans turned up, all full of bluster about how great they were, because they come from a country where guns are celebrated and loved. They had easily the most expensive looking shotguns that day.

None of them shot above 30 on a round of 50. It was pathetic.

The world sees America's obsession with guns the same way we see a child's obsession with a shiny toy. Time to grow up.

As an American, I feel the same way. It's also frustrating and sad that such a small minority is holding common sense gun laws from happening, and I'm not sure what will finally get our government to do something...aside from one of these shooters shooting up an area full of rich white men. You threaten that demographic, and things will start changing most likely. But who knows.

 

[squeekness]

As an American, I feel the same way. It's also frustrating and sad that such a small minority is holding common sense gun laws from happening, and I'm not sure what will finally get our government to do something...aside from one of these shooters shooting up an area full of rich white men. You threaten that demographic, and things will start changing most likely. But who knows.

I'm sure a lot of white Repulicans got shot in Vegas. All that did was get people more concerned about bump stocks than the guns they were attached to.

 

[LTuser]

1) Social media makes it very easy to rally people around something as important as this, and I suspect you know this anyway but just want to "stir the pot". But if you really don't know, then that is my take on it...

True, social media CAN help get the word out, but that still takes time. All of these rallies seemed to (IMO) be rather quickly organized.

2) Any decent parent would "sign off" on their child taking a day off to be a part of this rally/movement as it could quite literally end up saving their life one day.

So a parent who would have rather his kid stay in school and learn, is not a 'decent parent'? What about one who would rather their kid not be used as a political pawn?

3) Perhaps they made their own protest signs? It's not that hard or expensive. A bus is not that expensive. These are school students, I am guessing they have enough intelligence to fill out a few forms.

Renting a bus still requires a contract be signed yes? Since they are kids, they legally can't sign a contract. OR sign off on the permits for the rallies.. THAT's what i was questioning..

And it seems i was right, that liberal groups were the ones behind some of it.

The students billed as leading the gun control charge “from their parents’ living rooms” after last week’s deadly high school shooting in Parkland, Florida, are receiving help from seasoned left-wing activists.

Deena Katz, co-executive director of the Women’s March LA Foundation, submitted the application for a National Park Service permit for the March for Our Lives, the March 24 rally on the National Mall described as a student-led protest.

That's as per an article from the washington times but due to its pay to play firewall, i can't link the article itself.

Now I am probably feeding the trolls here, and I suspect you are a recently banned user back under a different name. Because your posts are uncannily similar to someone else.

That's the 2nd time i have been accused of that. SINCE YOU and that other poster feel that way, WHY DON'T you pm the moderators to verify that i am NOT a troll/prior banned user..

Hey, don't even get me started on this

Conspiracy theorists online have accused the survivors of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High of being paid actors who travel between the sites of mass shootings

Gawkk.. I had a laugh and a half at that blooming idiot who made that claim.
Just like i saw another one, where someone said "this is just yet another hoax by the anti-gun leftists, like all of these school shootings are..
Those idiots need to crawl back into their basements, and put their tinfoil hats back on.

I don't believe the answer is to arm teachers. Teachers are there to teach, not to take lives...

Tell that to all the teachers out in West texas who ARE armed with CCW carried pistols, or those up in Utah..

Can the politicians not see that prevention is always better than cure? It is so damned obvious to me.

Nope. Seems to be they can't eve see fixing something BEFORE IT fully breaks is better than waiting for it to do so and spending 10 times as much cleaning up..
Just look at all the disasters from flooding that could have been prevented had some common sense been applied...

There is no point in using logic, facts or reasoning with him. The conspiracy worm has dug too far into his brain to let him see anything but wildly implausible and impossible conspiracies everywhere.

Just like it seems to me, that the -hate anything trump- bias of the liberal media has made most of you unable or unwilling to see anything NOT coming from liberal sources..

How about, instead of repeating already easily refuted politically-motivated lies, you make an effort to engage in the discussion with a modicum of honesty and integrity.

And what exactly do YOU see as debating with honesty and integrity?
I've already been labeled a right wing redneck. A troll who was a banned user, and lots of other things..

 

[Donner]

You frequently make claims that have already been debunked and quote crack pot conspiracy websites as legitimate sources. If you want to be taken seriously, you're the one that needs to do better research.

How many times have you made the claim that the mass shooters have all been Democrats and how many times have other members proved that claim incorrect?

Yeesh.

 

[squeekness]

I highly doubt Dylan Roof was a Democrat.

 

[Hotwire]

 

[squeekness]

Exactly.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

While it shouldn't be a requirement for teachers to be armed, it should be made an option for those that want to do it and go through proper training.

 

[Donner]

While it shouldn't be a requirement for teachers to be armed, it should be made an option for those that want to do it and go through proper training.

No. Just no. That's not the solution. The police are bad enough when they "fear for their life" and they go through psychological tests before becoming cops. Teachers shouldn't be armed at schools. It's just asinine.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

No. Just no. That's not the solution. The police are bad enough when they "fear for their life" and they go through psychological tests before becoming cops. Teachers shouldn't be armed at schools. It's just asinine.

9 states already allow teachers to conceal carry so it's already happening at a smaller level. While not allowed in OH yet, this sheriff has offered free CCW training for teachers, which 300 of them signed up for but many more wanted to do.

http://kutv.com/news/nation-world/b...fers-free-concealed-carry-classes-to-teachers

 

[Donner]

And that's a problem.

There are just too many things that can go wrong. Also, the deterrent aspect is complete BS. Mass shooters, like most criminals, are not logical thinkers. They don't look at the pros and cons of what they're about to do or where. It's an emotional crime and having a sign on a school door that says that the teachers are armed will not stop them from entering the school.

It's just a bad idea all around.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

And that's a problem.

Why? Teachers are being proactive on their own while waiting for stuff to come down from higher up the ladder. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[BillPardy]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/deputy-on-duty-during-florida-shooting-resigns-after-failing-to-act-sheriff-says


I'm sure a teacher would have done much better. Right?

 

[TheJL]

Some in my extended family used to give me crap about world travel being dangerous, but after Las Vegas it stopped. They used to travel to Vegas religiously, but were always afraid of Europe (London, Paris, etc.). You could say the actions of the world spoke for itself.

Columbine
Virginia Tech
Sandy Hook
Las Vegas

All of these shootings should've been a turning point in American culture, but it never happened.

NRA's connection to Putin should be highlighted for the gun debate to move forward.

 

[Donner]

Why? Teachers are being proactive on their own while waiting for stuff to come down from higher up the ladder. Nothing wrong with that.

Ugh. Not that numerous people here have pointed out the many (many) things that can go wrong when a teacher is armed. Your view is so narrow. Teacher with gun = protection. That's it right? The US educational system is severely broken and yet somehow, the teachers feel they can do another job (protecting) when they can barely perform their primary duty (teaching).

 

[Webfoot Hero]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/deputy-on-duty-during-florida-shooting-resigns-after-failing-to-act-sheriff-says


I'm sure a teacher would have done much better. Right?

For all his deflection yesterday during the CNN townhall, Steve Israel's department was shown to be part of the reason why the shooting was worse than it had to be.

 

[Donner]

I mean, the US is a country that banned Kinder Surprises under the ridiculous guise of wanting to protect children, yet allows the legal sale of AR15s to teenagers.

I'm so glad I don't live there.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Ugh. Not that numerous people here have pointed out the many (many) things that can go wrong when a teacher is armed. Your view is so narrow. Teacher with gun = protection. That's it right? The US educational system is severely broken and yet somehow, the teachers feel they can do another job (protecting) when they can barely perform their primary duty (teaching).

Seems your view is incredibly narrow as well. Arming teachers is but one thing that can be done. Schools really need to look at how they're secured as many have multiple entrances and exits that just about anyone can use. Securing a school should be looked at as more keeping unwanted people out than keeping students in. Also, things need to be done so background checks are more thorough and law enforcement/government entities can better manage mentally-ill or physically dangerous people before they cause harm.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Why? Teachers are being proactive on their own while waiting for stuff to come down from higher up the ladder. Nothing wrong with that.

What happens if a teacher turns out to be a shooter? Decides to break up a fight with a gun? What happens if one of the students get a hold of a teacher's gun?

One of the kids on Klepper point it very well. School isn't prison. The teachers are not your guards. And this is before we get into the general unease of being forced to be a around a gun while you are suppose to be learning.

 

[squeekness]

I mean, the US is a country that banned Kinder Surprises under the ridiculous guise of wanting to protect children, yet allows the legal sale of AR15s to teenagers.

I'm so glad I don't live there.

Day to day America isn't so bad. Here in Massachusetts seeing a gun out in the open is very rare and pretty much only law enforcement.